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CARB Rules now hitting nerves outside of Calif.

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Posted by rdamon on Sunday, April 21, 2024 1:14 PM

charlie hebdo

Instead of complaining, just post your pictures.

 

 

Spare us the pompus lectures on doing more for you fellow man then ..

I was trying to get at the fact that BNSF is moving to comply with CARB and will probably do so in the future.  

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Posted by rrnut282 on Thursday, May 23, 2024 4:21 PM

Maybe the BNSF and UP work out how to string catanary from the left coast to the state line (or crew change point just beyond) on the Californications's dime.  Buy a few electric locomotive to shuttle back and forth, and hope it doesn't cause rolling blackouts everytime more than two trains are climbing a hill.  

Seriously, this won't end well, with intractable personalities on both sides.  

york1,

don't forget end of life concerns for "green" equipment.  There are a lot of toxic rare-earth elements in solar panels that cannot be easily recycled.  Wind turbine blades have a set lifespan.  Where do they go?  

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by azrail on Thursday, May 23, 2024 4:50 PM

Notice what those tornadoes in Iowa did to those wind turbines?

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, May 23, 2024 4:56 PM

azrail
Notice what those tornadoes in Iowa did to those wind turbines?

If it is made by man - Nature can defeat it.  

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, May 23, 2024 6:38 PM

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, May 23, 2024 6:38 PM

BaltACD

 

 
azrail
Notice what those tornadoes in Iowa did to those wind turbines?

 

If it is made by man - Nature can defeat it.  

 

You said it! 

And there's another dirty little secret about wind turbines.  You need at leat a 15 MPH wind for them to generate power.  No 15 MPH wind, no power.  AND if the wind goes over 35 MPH they have to be shut down and the blades "feathered" into the wind. And that being the case then they're not generating power. 

Call me a nasty old cynic but someone's been sold a major bill of goods on these things. 

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, May 23, 2024 8:04 PM

Flintlock76
Call me a nasty old cynic but someone's been sold a major bill of goods on these things. 

The same can be said for solar...  Many acres of the panels in our area now.  One installation hasn't been connected to the grid because the grid can't handle it...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, May 23, 2024 9:15 PM

tree68
 
Flintlock76
Call me a nasty old cynic but someone's been sold a major bill of goods on these things.  

The same can be said for solar...  Many acres of the panels in our area now.  One installation hasn't been connected to the grid because the grid can't handle it...

Every form of Energy has its drawbacks - 

Wind - not enough or too much
Solar - not enough or not on demand
Tides - while they are on a schedule, that schedule might not be the right one
Hydro - not everywhere has enough water and enough of a drop for it to work
Geothermal - too few active volcanoes in the US to work.
Fossil - Carbon Dioxde generators

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, May 23, 2024 10:20 PM

BaltACD
Wind - not enough or too much

Solar - not enough or not on demand

Tides - while they are on a schedule, that schedule might not be the right one

Hydro - not everywhere has enough water and enough of a drop for it to work

Geothermal - too few active volcanoes in the US to work.

Fossil - Carbon Dioxde generators

We have a fair amount of wind power here, and a number of wind farms.  Still, sometimes it is still...

The solar folks have taken to installing batteries - and I was part of the response that spent most of a day dealing with a fire in one of those batteries.  

Hydro is definitely a thing here.  When I'm narrating one of our trips I point out that the water they are passing will go through around 10 hydro dams on the way to Lake Ontario.  Unfortunately, a lot of that power goes straight to NYC.  The same is true of the St Lawrence Power Project and the Niagara Falls plants.

There is actually some geothermal done in this area.  But not everyone has enough land to spread out the wells.

Local farmers lost a resource when the local cogen shut down using coal - the fly ash was trucked around the area for farmers to spread in their fields.  The plant changed over to biomass, but the state decided not to recognize it as a renewable facility, so it's shut down completely now.

The output from our nuclear plants goes pretty much straight to NYC, too.

Our "leaders" have mandated that everything will go electric in the future, but they've neglected to say where all that power is coming from.  The electricity fairy?

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Erik_Mag on Friday, May 24, 2024 10:18 AM

My impression is that most of the focus in the "net-zero" generation has been granting subsidies for new generation, while questions of where to build trransmission, energy storage (including reducing the number of battery fires), distribution and demand management have been put on the back burner.

OTOH, I've seen a number of articles about the  impossibility of long distance freight haulage by electricity, where the technology has been existance for more than a century - i.e. railroad electrification. What that does require is a reliable source of electricity, though electric locomotives with battery back ups can provide some flexibility.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, May 24, 2024 1:53 PM

Well Pepsi and Fritolay found the hard way this last winter that battery power over Donner did not work well.  The vaunted Tesla semi had to be redeployed so to speak to the Central Valley as they failed to conquer Donner due to the blizzards and the fact that they well could not stay warm for a driver that got caught in a blizzard and ran out of power on there. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, May 25, 2024 10:09 AM

Interesting fact - the amount of new coal plant capacity under construction world-wide is equal to the gigawatts of coal plants still in operation in the US.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/530257/capacity-of-proposed-coal-power-plants-globally-by-status/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/530569/installed-capacity-of-coal-power-plants-in-selected-countries/

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, May 25, 2024 1:15 PM

Everyone seems to focus on the impact on the Class One carriers, BNSF and UP in this case.  It's the short lines that are going to get hit hard.  Some have said they may not be able to comply and will shut down. 

There is fear that the EPA will allow other states to also impose their own ideas on emissions and CO2.  Instead of a national uniform guide there could be 49 standards on the subject.  (50, if Hawaii would impose standards on the remaining tourist/musuem railroads.  I'm sure developers on Oahu would like to get rid of the Hawaiian Railway Societ.) 

Jeff  

 

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Posted by NKP guy on Saturday, May 25, 2024 2:28 PM

jeffhergert
Instead of a national uniform guide there could be 49 standards on the subject.

This reminds me of other topics or issues that are on the minds of many lately, but hey, states rights, right?

Sometimes a federal standard is the right way to go.

 

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Posted by diningcar on Saturday, May 25, 2024 2:42 PM

Until this is resolved California will probably be restrained from enforcing its mandate. If not then, for example, BNSF would have to have a locomotive pool at Needles (or across in AZ) and UP would need a pool at Yuma and every train would have to stop and change power.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, May 25, 2024 9:49 PM

How about 8 Big Boys burning soy been oil in a pool at Yuma?

Recently captured carbon is carbon neutral.

Heck, crank up the forges - UP has the blue prints.

 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, May 26, 2024 9:35 AM

kgbw49

How about 8 Big Boys burning soy been oil in a pool at Yuma?

Recently captured carbon is carbon neutral.

Heck, crank up the forges - UP has the blue prints.

 

 

Truly we will look to the past for the future of locomotives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JiCsSwWxcs

The old/new idea of propulsion begins about 16 minutes in.

Jeff

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, May 26, 2024 11:44 AM

jeffhergert
Truly we will look to the past for the future of locomotives.

The Progress Rail solution -- CAT power!

Think what a whole century of progress has contributed.  Proven TNR technology ensures a continuous source of free excitation.

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Posted by JL Chicago on Monday, May 27, 2024 2:49 PM

Erik_Mag

In order for California to transition to electric transportation, the state will need to find an abundant source of reasonably low cost electricity that will be available when all of these vehicles need charging. Note for solar or wind to work, there needs to be electric energy storage on a scale that's well more than an order of magnitude larger than what currently exists in the state. Outside of the CalISO, I haven't seen much evidence that anyone in the state government has given serious thought to the electric suply issue.

 

Are you aware that on many days now ALL of California's electricity comes from renewable resources?  Last month it was about 20 out of 30  days.  

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Posted by JL Chicago on Monday, May 27, 2024 2:57 PM

 

 I can't speak for Iacocca but I know Shelby found electric cars interesting. He died before the tech was available.  And Shelby Motors now makes E-Mustangs.   Shelby wanted to go the quickest and electric cars do that very well.  

 
BaltACD
electric Mustang's

 

Those are a mortal sin, a crime against nature, and a slur on the memory of Lee Iaccocca and Carroll Shelby!  To say nothing of Steve McQueen!  Ick!

 

[/quote]

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Posted by JL Chicago on Monday, May 27, 2024 3:16 PM

You are a cynic Flintlock   

Most of what you would call large-scale wind turbines typically start turning in winds of seven to nine miles per hour. Their top speeds are around 50-55 mph, which is their upper safety limit. Large-scale wind turbines normally have a braking system that kicks in around 55 mph to prevent damage to the blades.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, May 27, 2024 4:07 PM

JL Chicago
 

 I can't speak for Iacocca but I know Shelby found electric cars interesting. He died before the tech was available.  And Shelby Motors now makes E-Mustangs.   Shelby wanted to go the quickest and electric cars do that very well.   

BaltACD
electric Mustang's 

Those are a mortal sin, a crime against nature, and a slur on the memory of Lee Iaccocca and Carroll Shelby!  To say nothing of Steve McQueen!  Ick!

I have NEVER championed electric Mustangs.
 
Recall a trip between Columbus and Cincinnati on I-71 in 1966 or so - a 6 cylinder Mustang was racing my 80 hp Chevy Corvair Monza - we made the trip in about one hour.

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Posted by MP104 on Monday, May 27, 2024 4:29 PM

My retirement job: Company (OEM) of concrete finishing equipment. Upon design consideration of all aspects, satisfying US EPA was NEVER thought about/considered......it was ALWAYS CARB rules.

To keep this RR'ish: Once we manufactured a machine destined for S. Korea. We made it, got it trucked to Memphis, placed in a CONEX container, placed on a train to go Westward for ocean shipment.  The UP train carrying said CONEX rolled right by our plant one day. The RR ROW and plant shared common property line. endmrw0527241628

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Posted by MP104 on Monday, May 27, 2024 4:33 PM

JL, Interesting, however, Did they go to the beach and picnic the other 10 days? endmrw0527241633

reference: Are you aware that on many days now ALL of California's electricity comes from renewable resources?  Last month it was about 20 out of 30  days.  

 

 
 
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Posted by Erik_Mag on Monday, May 27, 2024 4:42 PM

JL Chicago

Are you aware that on many days now ALL of California's electricity comes from renewable resources?  Last month it was about 20 out of 30  days.  

Only for certain times of the day, mainly during mid day when solar generation is at its peak. That is NOT TRUE at night, as solar power is pretty much kaput when the evening demand peak occurs.

From what I've seen, California only has a few GW-hrs of electric energy storage capacity and would need on the order of 200 GW-hrs of storage for the state to get "ALL" of the electric energy from renewable resources on a reasonably sunny day. I've seen a figure of $575/kw-hr for all-up costs for utility scale battery storage, so that 200 GW-hrs would cost $100 billion if you were willing to do 100% charge/discharge cycles and kill the batteries in a short time period.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 3:50 PM

BaltACD
Recall a trip between Columbus and Cincinnati on I-71 in 1966 or so

Was it still co-labeled SR-1 at the time?

For those not in the know, including some slow running coming out of the river valley in Cincinnati (and a tunnel under a fairly major railroad yard) it was about 106 miles from the Spence bridge to Rt. 315.  I never made it that fast with twice the number of cylinders.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 4:45 PM

Overmod
 
BaltACD
Recall a trip between Columbus and Cincinnati on I-71 in 1966 or so 

Was it still co-labeled SR-1 at the time?

For those not in the know, including some slow running coming out of the river valley in Cincinnati (and a tunnel under a fairly major railroad yard) it was about 106 miles from the Spence bridge to Rt. 315.  I never made it that fast with twice the number of cylinders.

It was I-71 at the time, never knew of it as SR-1.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 30, 2024 10:52 AM

BaltACD
It was I-71 at the time, never knew of it as SR-1.

Originally planned as one of the 'turnpikes' in the Fifties, then switched to be an Interstate when the free Federal defense-highway money started to be available.  "State Route 1" (on the signes it was just an outline of Ohio with a '1' on it) signs were posted at some entrances all the way up until sometime in 1966.

Now has serious congestion from the I-75 merge all the way to the bridge.  They fixed some of the 'fun' north of the bridge to get through the downtown Cincinnati area, and it was miserable driving through there for years... now I think they have one deck of the bridge closed for maintenance so you have to go around.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, May 30, 2024 11:53 AM

Overmod
 
BaltACD
It was I-71 at the time, never knew of it as SR-1. 

Originally planned as one of the 'turnpikes' in the Fifties, then switched to be an Interstate when the free Federal defense-highway money started to be available.  "State Route 1" (on the signes it was just an outline of Ohio with a '1' on it) signs were posted at some entrances all the way up until sometime in 1966. 

Now has serious congestion from the I-75 merge all the way to the bridge.  They fixed some of the 'fun' north of the bridge to get through the downtown Cincinnati area, and it was miserable driving through there for years... now I think they have one deck of the bridge closed for maintenance so you have to go around.  

Driving the 'uncompleted' Interstates of the 60's and early 70's is a far cry from what the completed and in place expanded Interstates of the 21st Century are.  Back in those days, you might have 10, 15, 20 miles of divided, limited access highway that would then end in 10, 15, 20 miles of two lane driving, rinse and repeat.

The year I graduated from High School near Akron, OH immediately after graduation my family moved to Washington, IN.  During holiday breaks from college I would make the trek on US 50 to Cincinnati and then various routes from Cincinnati to Akron (those routes changed with each trip as elements of the various Interstates were completed and opened for traffic.

Traffic levels of the 1960's and the 2020's cannot be compared, they are that different.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 30, 2024 5:25 PM

BaltACD
Driving the 'uncompleted' Interstates of the 60's and early 70's is a far cry from what the completed and in place expanded Interstates of the 21st Century are.

I well remember the eternity that was construction of the approaches to the Martha Washington Bridge in the early '60s, and the interminable shunt off I-80 to 46 (right at that Marcal plant that burned down so stunningly a couple of years ago) while they built the section around Garrett Mountain (that killed off the Cutoff a few years later).

But it hasn't ended.  I-49 through Shreveport was a massive cluster (among many issues, they tried grinding a defectively-lined interchange THREE TIMES, fully closing it to traffic each time) and that was far from finished when I left Shreveport in the mid-Nineties.  There was a long series of detours, confusion and delay in the construction of Interstate 22 on the route that was US 78, some of them astoundingly different in routing.  When you have to drive stretches of random two-lane in the middle of the night, you become aware of the delays.  The connection through to I-65 close to Birmingham took nearly two decades; I think it has only been finished a few years.  (Something terrifying is that there were two enormous truckstops at the junction of the last piece of detour' and I-65, and you now can't get to them without going a great way round...

I-69 south of Indy toward the Tennessee line is currently in the throes of "conversion" to Interstate standards, so there's a lot of four-lane and two-lane with lights, and shooflys around where the over- or underpasses will go in.  It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out in Tennessee (with respect to Rt. 51).  I assure you that the experience is still alive and well many places I have driven in the 21st Century...

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