OvermodIt's the railroad version of why aircrews have to read back any communication 'in their own words' -- it's supposed to confirm that they understood it well enough to repeat it. CYA says it's even more proof if you have to write it out as well as be able to repeat it. And you have written proof if anything 'fails'. Seems to me that written confirmation of various kinds of flimsy was standard procedure on American railroads. This is no different. (Of course, SPAFs were mandatory to fill out and keep, too, and we all know how that came out...)
CYA says it's even more proof if you have to write it out as well as be able to repeat it. And you have written proof if anything 'fails'.
Seems to me that written confirmation of various kinds of flimsy was standard procedure on American railroads. This is no different.
(Of course, SPAFs were mandatory to fill out and keep, too, and we all know how that came out...)
Dealing with the issues both as a Train Order Operator and as a Train Dispatcher. It is amazing that some people can't listen and write what they hear at the same time and then can read what they have written in order to be able to repeat it to the party that originally transmitted it.
The biggest issue, that I have stumbled over during my career, was MofW Personnel wanting a Track Occupancy Authority - in many cases they would have the 'particulars' of the authority already written in their books when the made the request - because of operating conditions the Dispatcher was not able to give them the exact authority they had prewritten in their books - in many cases they would repeat what they had prewritten, not the authority they had actually been given.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It's the railroad version of why aircrews have to read back any communication 'in their own words' -- it's supposed to confirm that they understood it well enough to repeat it.
greyhoundsWhy does the message need to be copied instead of transmitted wirelessly and displayed or printed?
It's that word-for-word verification that's the hang-up, I would opine. Simply pressing an "acknowledge" key doesn't guarantee that the directive in question has been read or understood.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
greyhounds BaltACD As a practical matter - Dispatchers will endeavor to transmit train messages and/or mandatory directives to Amtrak or others with only a engineer in the cab while their trains are making scheduled station stops. However, if a station stop is not in the offing either the Conductor must come to the operating cab or the train must be stopped. These rules apply on CSX - other carriers 'may' have different rules. Why does the message need to be copied instead of transmitted wirelessly and displayed or printed?
BaltACD As a practical matter - Dispatchers will endeavor to transmit train messages and/or mandatory directives to Amtrak or others with only a engineer in the cab while their trains are making scheduled station stops. However, if a station stop is not in the offing either the Conductor must come to the operating cab or the train must be stopped. These rules apply on CSX - other carriers 'may' have different rules.
Why does the message need to be copied instead of transmitted wirelessly and displayed or printed?
Because 'at present' that is not the procedure. To my knowledge locomotives have not been equipped with wireless printers that can be addressed through the CADS. I believe all the Class 1 are using one form or another of CADS to run their properties.
However the communication is made, there must be positive confirmation between Dispatchers and trains that the communication is both received and understood. If display or wireless printer is used, I suspect, the person receiving the communication will be required to verbally repeat the communication over the radio to the Train Dispatcher.
Cut directly to the chase:
49 CFR Part 218 [Docket No. FRA-2021-0032, Notice No. 5], RIN 2130-AC88, Train Crew Size Safety Requirements
BaltACDAs a practical matter - Dispatchers will endeavor to transmit train messages and/or mandatory directives to Amtrak or others with only a engineer in the cab while their trains are making scheduled station stops. However, if a station stop is not in the offing either the Conductor must come to the operating cab or the train must be stopped. These rules apply on CSX - other carriers 'may' have different rules.
lenzfamily BaltACD The so called 'flying squad utility conductor' is a load of bovine excrement. Many of the locations where trains have 'issues' are in locations that are near or actually impossible to reach by other means of transport. The thought of a Engineer leaving the operating cab of his locomotive to inspect and deal with conditions back in his train is unsafe on its face and too many other ways to count. The Feds have stepped in and saved PSR management from its own lunacy. RE Amtrak and single man in the lead engine - whenever a Train Message or other Mandatory Directive is issued to that train - if there is not a Conductor in the locomotive cab to copy them - the train must be stopped so the Engineer can copy them. Engineers are not permitted to copy such things while the train is in motion. Interesting about Amtrak I can't see how this would work safely and legally. On Via, two engineers are in the locomotive cab. At station stops the non-operating engineer exits the cab, in situations I have seen, and basically 'supervises or oversees' the platform activity. Once that activity is near its end, the engineer returns to the locomotive. Charlie, Chilliwack BC
BaltACD The so called 'flying squad utility conductor' is a load of bovine excrement. Many of the locations where trains have 'issues' are in locations that are near or actually impossible to reach by other means of transport. The thought of a Engineer leaving the operating cab of his locomotive to inspect and deal with conditions back in his train is unsafe on its face and too many other ways to count. The Feds have stepped in and saved PSR management from its own lunacy. RE Amtrak and single man in the lead engine - whenever a Train Message or other Mandatory Directive is issued to that train - if there is not a Conductor in the locomotive cab to copy them - the train must be stopped so the Engineer can copy them. Engineers are not permitted to copy such things while the train is in motion.
The so called 'flying squad utility conductor' is a load of bovine excrement. Many of the locations where trains have 'issues' are in locations that are near or actually impossible to reach by other means of transport. The thought of a Engineer leaving the operating cab of his locomotive to inspect and deal with conditions back in his train is unsafe on its face and too many other ways to count.
The Feds have stepped in and saved PSR management from its own lunacy.
RE Amtrak and single man in the lead engine - whenever a Train Message or other Mandatory Directive is issued to that train - if there is not a Conductor in the locomotive cab to copy them - the train must be stopped so the Engineer can copy them. Engineers are not permitted to copy such things while the train is in motion.
Interesting about Amtrak I can't see how this would work safely and legally. On Via, two engineers are in the locomotive cab. At station stops the non-operating engineer exits the cab, in situations I have seen, and basically 'supervises or oversees' the platform activity. Once that activity is near its end, the engineer returns to the locomotive.
Charlie, Chilliwack BC
As a practical matter - Dispatchers will endeavor to transmit train messages and/or mandatory directives to Amtrak or others with only a engineer in the cab while their trains are making scheduled station stops. However, if a station stop is not in the offing either the Conductor must come to the operating cab or the train must be stopped. These rules apply on CSX - other carriers 'may' have different rules.
When you get right down to it, Amtrak has been running one person crews virtually since Day 1. Yes there is a conductor on the train, but the engineer is more often than not alone in the cab.
A meaningful metric would be how often (besides calling signals and the like) the services of the conductor are required. Then how many of those instances could be handled by any of the other resources available (most of which have already been discussed).
That said, I'm not opposed to the two "man" rule.
See linked stoiry @ U.S. to Impose Two-Person Crew Mandate on Freight Trains (msn.com)
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