The line from St. Paul to Kansas City now sees an additional train in each direction. Train pair 250/251 between Superior, WI and St.Paul has now been extended to Kansas City. I can't tell of it just runs tri-weekly, but it doesn't seem to be daily. This has reduced the number of extra sections of 260/261 running, although I still have heard a 3rd 261 run since then.
Maybe a slight increase in traffic on the Chicago Subdivision during the past week or so, primarily on the manifest side. There were 2.4 252/253 (Chicago-Nahant) manifests per day average during the first week or so of October, 2023, up from 1.8 during September. A 253 was 11,300 feet long leaving Savanna during the early hours of October 8, a day that saw two manifests each way. Savanna has had trouble finding places to park blocks of traffic that these trains set out and pick up.
MP173 CSX today ran a X166, which is an extra CP intermodal train. I166 runs from Chicago to Buffalo area where it is handed off to CP. It is their daily eastbound. Today's X166 made a left hand turn at Fostoria and headed to Detroit with 1 KCS unit with 180 containers which featured 22 domestics and the balance internationals. The X166 is an infrequent train, turning to Detroit is a new operation. Unsure if this is a result of good marketing by CP to increase their Detroit market or a once in a while occurance. If CPKC can make a market for Detroit, both out of Mexico and imports from Vancouver it could be a good chunk of business. Not sure how their Detroits have been moving up to this point. Ed
CSX today ran a X166, which is an extra CP intermodal train.
I166 runs from Chicago to Buffalo area where it is handed off to CP. It is their daily eastbound.
Today's X166 made a left hand turn at Fostoria and headed to Detroit with 1 KCS unit with 180 containers which featured 22 domestics and the balance internationals.
The X166 is an infrequent train, turning to Detroit is a new operation. Unsure if this is a result of good marketing by CP to increase their Detroit market or a once in a while occurance.
If CPKC can make a market for Detroit, both out of Mexico and imports from Vancouver it could be a good chunk of business. Not sure how their Detroits have been moving up to this point.
Ed
CPKC has a very limited footprint in Detroit. Their DIT ramp on the westside of town is small and constricted with no room for growth. Perhaps they could reconfigure the facility to increase lift capacity, but that's about it.
The more and more I look at CPKC's network. I don't believe the STB made the right decision. One they're always going to be restricted by UP rights through Rosenberg-Houston-Beaumont, the recent scuffle about the South End Agreement, and hodge podge eastern network with a clearance restricted tunnel at Det-Win...
So much for "single line" service..
More to see at Clinton, Iowa, where 260/261 (Kansas City-Twin Cities) add an average of 2.38 trains per day, unit trains total 2.75 per day, and several locals add an additional 2.75. These add to the 1.63 per day 252/253 manifests and 1.13 per day 180/181 intermodals for a total of about 10.5 CPKC trains per day. (Union Pacific also runs about 25-30 trains per day through town and across the Mississippi River at Clinton.)
Recent days have seen an average of 1.13 intermodal trains per day through Savanna and Iowa. Often it is 180 westbound one day and 181 eastbound the next. Manifests have averaged 1.63 per day through Savanna, with Train 253 (Chicago - Nahant) showing up every day while Train 252 (Nahant - Chicago) only appears about two out of every three days. Those plus unit trains make an average of only a bit more than 3 trains per day across most of the Chicago Division east of Savanna. (Chicago suburb concerns seem unwarranted to date.)
Savanna west is busier, at about 5.5 trains per day, thanks to K38/K39 (Savanna-Mason City), K67 (turn to Clinton) and other locals. K38 and K39 do not run daily, as suggested by some symbol lists. Tri-weekly seems more likely.
- Ed Kyle
Ed KyleWeird day on the KPKC main in Iowa on Monday, August 7, 2023. *Five* southbound manifests during the day through Washington, all sizable, with one typical northbound manifest also appearing along with a northbound 181 with 67 platforms/127 containers and 16 autoracks. Usually only one or two manifests each way per day. Not sure what to make of the southbound manifests, which must have hauled more than 700 cars toward Kansas City during a 16 or so hour span. Could some have been detours? (One had BNSF units on point and DPU.) - Ed Kyle
That is the one thing about the interline operation of power. Unless you know what the railroad is actually doing, you don't really know whose train you are actually seeing.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Weird day on the KPKC main in Iowa on Monday, August 7, 2023. *Five* southbound manifests during the day through Washington, all sizable, with one typical northbound manifest also appearing along with a northbound 181 with 67 platforms/127 containers and 16 autoracks. Usually only one or two manifests each way per day. Not sure what to make of the southbound manifests, which must have hauled more than 700 cars toward Kansas City during a 16 or so hour span. Could some have been detours? (One had BNSF units on point and DPU.)
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ns145 BaltACD Summer - in general - is a slow time for all forms of business. Work Forces are entitled to vacations and to a bigger extent many employees take those family vacations during June, July and August when kids are out of school. Railroads likewise have a larger portion of their work force on vacation during these months. Additionally from a railroad perspective, all the 'production' gangs are fully active during the warm weather months - Tie & Surfacing, Rail Gangs, Curve Patch Gangs etc. Since this happens every year I don't think it explains the 9.8% overall decline in intermodal traffic year-to-date versus 2022. And 2022 traffic levels were down relative to 2021.
BaltACD Summer - in general - is a slow time for all forms of business. Work Forces are entitled to vacations and to a bigger extent many employees take those family vacations during June, July and August when kids are out of school. Railroads likewise have a larger portion of their work force on vacation during these months. Additionally from a railroad perspective, all the 'production' gangs are fully active during the warm weather months - Tie & Surfacing, Rail Gangs, Curve Patch Gangs etc.
Summer - in general - is a slow time for all forms of business. Work Forces are entitled to vacations and to a bigger extent many employees take those family vacations during June, July and August when kids are out of school. Railroads likewise have a larger portion of their work force on vacation during these months.
Additionally from a railroad perspective, all the 'production' gangs are fully active during the warm weather months - Tie & Surfacing, Rail Gangs, Curve Patch Gangs etc.
Since this happens every year I don't think it explains the 9.8% overall decline in intermodal traffic year-to-date versus 2022. And 2022 traffic levels were down relative to 2021.
20-21 & 22 were all covid affected supply chain disrupted years. Considering all the various reasons for diruptions I don't know how much reliance can really be place upon figures that compare to those years.
Thanks to covid we have three years of suspect data about all production and transportation figures.
Was watching a show about whales on PBS. Back in the days before whales were nearly eradicated - whales would feed on tons and tons of plankton and other such things at the bottom of the food chain. Once the whales approached eradication one would think the oceans would be overgrown with plankton and others at the bottom of the food chain - NOPE! Plankton and their ilk were fed by whale excrement - no whales, no excrement no food for the plankton. There are drivers and linkages throughout the economy and transportation that are not easily visible on the surface.
blue streak 1 tree68 I've heard that traffic (particularly IM) is down of late. Here on the CSX A&WP sub the number of containers is noticiably down. Especially the BNSF haulage trains. There are many times the trains do not have even as many locos sometimes only 2. One daily one still has 4 locos and a full consist. No change in number of trains. CSX is similar in number of IMs but are shorter. Often have enough containers that just one loco would do. However those mostly are now 1x1x0 or 1x1. Ocassionally 2x1. Can almost predict when they will come by especially from Fairburn. All are well powered. The auto rack trains are longer mostly unit trains except weekends. Esentially the same for regular freights. There has been a few times when a unit grain empty will be connected to a DPU empty coal train. 3x3x0. Now those are long trains that do not fit into any siding except Union City. But all trains do have plenty of power attached and appear to be on time although have no defined paper work.
tree68 I've heard that traffic (particularly IM) is down of late.
I've heard that traffic (particularly IM) is down of late.
Ed KyleOther traffic seems slower too.
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During the past week (July 23-29, 2023), I only saw a total of two 180 and three 181 intermodal trains pass through Muscatine, Iowa, for a total 0.7 daily average. No intermodals at all appeared during three of the seven days. They haven't been running daily for awhile, but this was the fewest trains I've seen in a week since the start.
Other traffic seems slower too. There was an average of only 5.7 trains per day. 3.0 of those were manifest (including the Nahant-Muscatine turns). 1.1 were unit trains (tanks, standard covered hoppers, and sand). The rest were short locals or MOW trains.
jeffhergert I'm not sure I'd say Cotter to Rutledge is short. Is it still dark territory between those locations? How about south of Ottumwa? Last I knew it was dark and TWC to Laredo or Chillicothe MO. Then CTC to KC, with joint two main tracks between Polo and the KC area. Jeff
I'm not sure I'd say Cotter to Rutledge is short. Is it still dark territory between those locations? How about south of Ottumwa? Last I knew it was dark and TWC to Laredo or Chillicothe MO. Then CTC to KC, with joint two main tracks between Polo and the KC area.
Jeff
You're right I should not have characterized Rutledge to Cotter as short. It's about 40 miles. The long sections are between Ottumwa ans Laredo, about 100 miles, and north of Bellevue. I don't think either of those sections, along with the Chicago Sub. are to be addressed this year.
JayBee The sections of TWC are shrinking as new sections of CTC are being commisioned. Cotter, Letts, and Heinz sidings on the Ottumwa Sub. are being lengthened now. CTC is now continuous from Muscatine to NSS Camanche, then begins again at the Fifth St. Interlocking in Clinton, IA where CPKC crosses over the UP Geneva Sub into Savanna, IL except for the drawbridge itself. It continues up the Marquette Sub to just north of Bellevue, IA where a short patch of TWC connects to CN's CTC at Dubuque, IA. Short sections of TWC still exist from NSS Rutledge to the distant signal for SSS Cotter, and between Fruitland and Muscatine, IA. North of Dubuque the Marquette Sub is still TWC. A tie gang has been working on the Ottumwa Sub and could be seen working in the middle of the night on the Washington, IA railcam two weeks ago. I have seen notices in the news about various crossings on the Ottumwa Sub being closed for crossing replacement.
The sections of TWC are shrinking as new sections of CTC are being commisioned. Cotter, Letts, and Heinz sidings on the Ottumwa Sub. are being lengthened now. CTC is now continuous from Muscatine to NSS Camanche, then begins again at the Fifth St. Interlocking in Clinton, IA where CPKC crosses over the UP Geneva Sub into Savanna, IL except for the drawbridge itself. It continues up the Marquette Sub to just north of Bellevue, IA where a short patch of TWC connects to CN's CTC at Dubuque, IA. Short sections of TWC still exist from NSS Rutledge to the distant signal for SSS Cotter, and between Fruitland and Muscatine, IA. North of Dubuque the Marquette Sub is still TWC. A tie gang has been working on the Ottumwa Sub and could be seen working in the middle of the night on the Washington, IA railcam two weeks ago. I have seen notices in the news about various crossings on the Ottumwa Sub being closed for crossing replacement.
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Anyone have any intel on any of the capex CPKC said they would install between Chicago and Mexico?
Largest 180 today, June 8, 2023, that I've seen to date through Iowa, with 4 autoracks and 68 intermodal platforms with 129 containers pulled by two locomotives. On the other hand, 180 did not run on June 7, or June 5, or May 30, 28, 26, or 22 (Iowa dates). Could be residual traffic slowdown from the Memorial Day holiday.
Northbound 181 has run daily through Iowa this week so far, though only with 57, 78, 55, and 34 containers on Sunday-Wednesday respectfully. It also was every-other-day during the May 21-28 period.
That video showed one of the first trains. Since then they have grown. A couple of recent 181's carried more than 100 containers into Chicago.
MP173 Just read in Railway Age that CPKC is ordering 1000 refer containers to handle the Midwest to Mexico perishables. Ed
Just read in Railway Age that CPKC is ordering 1000 refer containers to handle the Midwest to Mexico perishables.
Did you watch the linked Youtube video of MMX-181 entering Bensenville Yard? Just a tad bit humorous given the extremely small number of containers arriving in Chicago.
https://youtu.be/X2qxfqjf9FA
Vermontanan2You miss the point, which is that any strong growth in Texas will benefit UP and BNSF primarily. The affect on this growth on CPKC would be relatively minimal, since it serves a limited area of the state.
I would not say the growth would be minimal by itself.
Nor would I make the statement or implication CPKC will not do well in Mexico either based on the size or route structure of it's competitors. KCS did fairly well on it's own.
CMStPnP You said earlier it was a branch line. Now it's a branch line / mainline? How does that work?
You said earlier it was a branch line. Now it's a branch line / mainline? How does that work?
The line from Dallas to Shreveport is part of the Meridian speedway which is an east-west main line. But since the topic of this thread is traffic to/from Mexico, the CPKC main line that would handle this traffic is the north-south route through Shreveport; Dallas is on a branch from this route and is likely not to see much of an increase in traffic to/from Mexico.
CMStPnP Which is your strawman you constructed just to argue. I stated that CPKC would benefit from strong growth in Texas and that fact was being overlooked the focus was on Mexico. You go on and on about comparing to BNSF and UP. I made no such comparison anywhere.
Which is your strawman you constructed just to argue. I stated that CPKC would benefit from strong growth in Texas and that fact was being overlooked the focus was on Mexico. You go on and on about comparing to BNSF and UP. I made no such comparison anywhere.
You miss the point, which is that any strong growth in Texas will benefit UP and BNSF primarily. The affect on this growth on CPKC would be relatively minimal, since it serves a limited area of the state.
ns145 CPKC will poison-pill their portion of joint rates with UP to meet or beat the combined CPKC/UP routing rates.
CPKC will poison-pill their portion of joint rates with UP to meet or beat the combined CPKC/UP routing rates.
I agree this will happen. I also understand what UP is saying in the article. But at some point, something has to give. This is not a situation where the routes north of the border are even remotely comparable. If CPKC does succeed in siphoning a significant amount of business away from UP, some entity somewhere will need to pay for the significant higher cost of moving the traffic that way, and this entity likely will squawk.
Vermontanan2Not really. KCS's presence in the Dallas area is pretty limited. Actually, their line from Shreveport to Dallas is up to main line standards - good for 60 MPH for intermodal trains and has CTC. Most of the intermodal traffic is to/from NS interchange at Meridian, Mississippi.
Vermontanan2Should traffic to/from Texas balloon as you suggest, BNSF and UP will benefit to a much greater extent than CPKC can ever hope for considering their fantastically inferior routes.
ns145 With control of that traffic, CPKC will force the long haul to the furthest distant US interchange points possible. And with that $31 billion purchase price they are going to have to milk the cow dry. Circuity won't matter when the longest CPKC service routes are the cheapest ones for shippers.
With control of that traffic, CPKC will force the long haul to the furthest distant US interchange points possible. And with that $31 billion purchase price they are going to have to milk the cow dry. Circuity won't matter when the longest CPKC service routes are the cheapest ones for shippers.
Oh it will certainly matter for intermodal and its high operating cost... Carload not so much.
ns145 The trouble is no Class I wants to steal traffic away from another carrier using such means. Can't get a 55 OR going that route. I don't dispute your "UP is physically superior argument", but given how rail economics currently work it all becomes irrelevant (which just goes to show how distorted everything has become in the rail industry).
The trouble is no Class I wants to steal traffic away from another carrier using such means. Can't get a 55 OR going that route. I don't dispute your "UP is physically superior argument", but given how rail economics currently work it all becomes irrelevant (which just goes to show how distorted everything has become in the rail industry).
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