New Chinese-Backed Rail Line

[Fred M Cain]

It seems to me that we as a nation are falling farther and farther behind.  Where is our rail link to Alaska, talked about since at least the 1960s but left undone?  Why can't we help other nations connect North and South America?  

It seems to me that if China wanted to do those kinds of projects they probably could and would.  What about us?  I don't think we're keeping up.

See here:

China's railroad to world domination: $58 billion raillink with Pakistan will reduce reliance on West (msn.com) 

[Backshop]

We gone over this before.  What bulk traffic would you ship between Alaska and the Lower 48?  What is the purpose of a rail line between North and South America? How extensive is China's highway network, compared to ours?

China can do these things because it is basically a dictatorship.  Is that a fair tradeoff for you?

[azrail]

Oil, minerals, lumber, seafoods from AK. Cheaper cost in shipping goods from USA/Canada to AK.

[Overmod]

We have neither the political will nor the available capital access for a 'Western Belt and Road initiative'.  (And I for one would allocate every dollar to domestic thinks like ECP and dual-mode electrification before subsidizing mass infrastructure projects in likely-kleptocrat-infested countries, only to be accused of imperialism, both in their operation and likely traffic patterns and in what happens if the country in question tries to welsh on payments or 'nationalize without compensation'.

I'd have arranged as part of NAFTA to get the Isthmus of Tehuantepec railway prioritized... but the Mexicans want no part of any norteamericano finger in that particular pie -- CPKC or no CPKC.

[Backshop]

azrail

Oil, minerals, lumber, seafoods from AK. Cheaper cost in shipping goods from USA/Canada to AK.

 

Alaska isn't a small place. Exactly where in Alaska will you go? Oil already has a mature shipping system.

Seafood is normally shipped by air.

[CMStPnP]

Backshop

We gone over this before.  What bulk traffic would you ship between Alaska and the Lower 48?  What is the purpose of a rail line between North and South America? How extensive is China's highway network, compared to ours?

China can do these things because it is basically a dictatorship.  Is that a fair tradeoff for you?

You forgot to mention the United States is rated #1 in the world for it's efficiency and profitability of it's freight rail system.   No other country can even come close.  By the same token, there is a lot of room for improvement as well.   It's just that the other countries are horrible at running freight rail systems.

If the Alaska line was ever built it would have to initially be built by the Government and it's operations subsidized and I don't know called The Milwaukee Road Artic Extension or something.  

[Fred M Cain]

Backshop

We gone over this before.  What bulk traffic would you ship between Alaska and the Lower 48?  What is the purpose of a rail line between North and South America? How extensive is China's highway network, compared to ours?

China can do these things because it is basically a dictatorship.  Is that a fair tradeoff for you?

 

 

Uh, that'd be a "NO".  China's government is horrible.  But I was just trying to make the point that we need to keep up.  The Soviet communists (also a horrible government) actually started the space race in the late 1950s.  JFK and others rose to the challenge.  We kept up and eventually surpassed them.

 

But now we're not keeping up with China both in rail expansion and a lot of other things, really.

 

As to why to build a rail link to Alaska, well, I'll let others decide why.  There must have been reason enough to build a line like that since the idea has been kept alive at least since the 1960s.  At one point they even began grading on the north end of what later became BC Rail.  I don't think it's the need for such a line that's lacking - it's the will and our inability as a people to reach any kind of a consensus anymore on anything.

 

The latest attempt to establish a link to Alaska, the A2A Railway, now also appears to be dead.  So, it will most likely never happen *UNLESS* the Chinese do it. But that's not a happy thought.  Trust me, they've already thought about this.

[charlie hebdo]

There are a lot of massive rail improvement projects needed in the lower 48 to bring us into  the 21st century. That investment wiuld be a far better use of infrastructure resources than an Akaska line  

[kgbw49]

This is a move to isolate India.

Both China and Pakistan are enemies of India.

India is soon to be the most populous nation in the world.

India is a democracy and is where many manufacturers are moving as they gradually decouple from China.

This is also a way for China to lessen dependence on seaborne transportation to the Middle East and Africa which would be important if control of the seas becomes contested.

It is a strategic move that eventually will connect with much of the mineral-rich African continent.

Britain ruled the world for 300 years by control of the seas and its armed forces, with viceroys and administrators from its small population installed around the world.

China is looking to do so in the same imperial manner but it does not need control of the seas to do so.

It can gain control of most of the Asian land mass and African land mass by using railroads and buying up, controlling and administrating strategic infrastructure and natural resources.

And it has 1.4 billion people to deploy around the world to manage their Belt and Road investments.

[Ulrich]

A resource railway along the lines of a Quebec North Shore and Labrador or a Cartier Railway might be viable at some point. The world has a growing need for rare earth metals along with iron ore, copper, zinc, and others.. 

[Overmod]

Fred M Cain

The latest attempt to establish a link to Alaska, the A2A Railway, now also appears to be dead.  So, it will most likely never happen *UNLESS* the Chinese do it. But that's not a happy thought.  Trust me, they've already thought about this.

Most of the Alaskan railway-connection schemes appear to have been written by people who have never gotten closer to the Yukon than some childhood Jack London reading.  The likely yearly maintenance, ignoring service outages and QoS issues, is probably prohibitive at the anticipated traffic levels -- if there is no advantage in great-circle navigation to meaningful ports of origin and destination, the principal point would be a Bering Strait crossing... and for a number of reasons that's becoming more and more unlikely, even with Russia becoming a Chinese vassal and the Chinese building the equivalent of a Manchurian railway extension to actually reach the west side of a Bering Strait crossing and feeding world traffic to it.

Would I stop the Chinese from losing their shirts on something that will be fun to watch... on Youtube, not in person, I think... or provide them an outlet for capital other than worthless cities uninhabited by millions?  Why not?  Especially if it facilitates tech transfer of cheap Chinese equipment for TLM and cat erection to our shores wholesale...

[Backshop]

Fred M Cain

But now we're not keeping up with China both in rail expansion and a lot of other things, really.

 

As to why to build a rail link to Alaska, well, I'll let others decide why.  There must have been reason enough to build a line like that since the idea has been kept alive at least since the 1960s.  

 

The latest attempt to establish a link to Alaska, the A2A Railway, now also appears to be dead.  So, it will most likely never happen *UNLESS* the Chinese do it. But that's not a happy thought.  Trust me, they've already thought about this. 

We had our rail expansion 140 years ago.  The Chinese are just trying to catch up to us. You don't even have a reason for it, other than "just because".

Somehow, the "rail race" doesn't have the same ring to it as the "space race".

If we want to throw billions at competing with the Chinese, I'd rather spend it on more Virginia-class SSNs and more F35s than a railroad that does nothing.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Fred M Cain

Uh, that'd be a "NO".  China's government is horrible.  But I was just trying to make the point that we need to keep up.  The Soviet communists (also a horrible government) actually started the space race in the late 1950s.  JFK and others rose to the challenge.  We kept up and eventually surpassed them.

 

There was less to the space race than people think.  On the Soviet side, Sergei Korolev was planning a realistic and systematic approach to putting a man on the moon.  Unfortunately, his boss (Nikita Khrushchev) was more interested in "spectaculars" to demonstrate the superiority of the Soviet system than any advances in space technology.

[Overmod]

There'd have been more to the 'space race' if Stalin et al. hadn't wrecked Korolev's health so badly that he died in 1966.  I don't think I would have liked the Almaz system under his direction.  Don't know how to roll railroads into this sensibly.