BackshopThat's why they fought for unions, OSHA, EPA, etc. Add Quote to your Post
The Greatest Generation concept has no distinction for or against unions. Currently people with "free money and health benefits" provided in the last two years and so some are willing not to work as a result.
diningcar This would be the right time to read, or reread, Tom Brokaw's book The Greatest Generation. We have been too spoiled with free money and benefits for no work.
This would be the right time to read, or reread, Tom Brokaw's book The Greatest Generation. We have been too spoiled with free money and benefits for no work.
tree68 Euclid Also, build in the stipulation that you are willing to give up some pay in exchange for these improvements in working conditions. After a fashion, the railroaders would give up pay for better conditions already. Management notwithstanding, I don't believe most Class 1 railroaders are salaried (I'll gladly stand corrected), being paid only for time worked. Thus any measure that reduces time worked (and thus increases time off) amounts to a cut in pay. And therein lies a conundrum. As for relative value - how do you place a dollar value on attending your kid's baseball game (and witnessing her first home run), or birthday, or First Communion, your wedding anniversary, or any of a host of other life events? This is where draconian attendance rules and the lack of depth in available manpower come home to roost. If you want to improve working conditions, this is where you need to start. Have enough employees available so Joe can go to his kid's champtionship football game without facing a penalty.
Euclid Also, build in the stipulation that you are willing to give up some pay in exchange for these improvements in working conditions.
After a fashion, the railroaders would give up pay for better conditions already.
Management notwithstanding, I don't believe most Class 1 railroaders are salaried (I'll gladly stand corrected), being paid only for time worked.
Thus any measure that reduces time worked (and thus increases time off) amounts to a cut in pay.
And therein lies a conundrum.
As for relative value - how do you place a dollar value on attending your kid's baseball game (and witnessing her first home run), or birthday, or First Communion, your wedding anniversary, or any of a host of other life events?
This is where draconian attendance rules and the lack of depth in available manpower come home to roost.
If you want to improve working conditions, this is where you need to start. Have enough employees available so Joe can go to his kid's champtionship football game without facing a penalty.
EuclidThis would have to start with someone making a list of every change in working conditions needed to satisfy the employees. It would have to be what you might call “within reason,” but it would just be a starting point that could be negotiated. It would have to be a compromise between the two parties.
They exist. They're called Section 6 notices.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
EuclidAlso, build in the stipulation that you are willing to give up some pay in exchange for these improvements in working conditions.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD n012944 Euclid I have been told that railroaders are not concerned about the pay, but only concerned about the bad working conditions. Different crafts have different concerns. I have not heard anyone from my craft complain about working conditions. Pay and cost of insurance are the main issues raised. Cost of Health Insurance or Job Insurance?
n012944 Euclid I have been told that railroaders are not concerned about the pay, but only concerned about the bad working conditions. Different crafts have different concerns. I have not heard anyone from my craft complain about working conditions. Pay and cost of insurance are the main issues raised.
Euclid I have been told that railroaders are not concerned about the pay, but only concerned about the bad working conditions.
Cost of Health Insurance or Job Insurance?
Health, as the company has no say in the cost of job insurance. Since I have had the same job insurance policy for almost 20 years, and the cost has not changed, I don't think it is an issue.
An "expensive model collector"
SD60MAC9500 Euclid If railroads need workers, they must raise the pay. If they raise it high enough, they will get all the workers they need. And they will be paying them what they are worth. Trucking companies will have to raise their driver pay too. These pay raises for truckers and railroaders will have to be paid for by the shipping revenue. If it turns out that railroads cannot hire labor at a low enough cost to make a profit, then they will go out of business. Also, if railroads don’t want to raise their pay high enough to attract labor, they can start improving their working conditions, and couple that with a more modest pay increase in order to attract labor. Euclid, You seem to be having a disconnect with Millennials, and Gen Z .. They don't make pay their top priority generally speaking.. They want a balance of a healthy work environment, and personal time. They don't want to work their lives away... It's really that simple. I can't blame them to be honest..
Euclid If railroads need workers, they must raise the pay. If they raise it high enough, they will get all the workers they need. And they will be paying them what they are worth. Trucking companies will have to raise their driver pay too. These pay raises for truckers and railroaders will have to be paid for by the shipping revenue. If it turns out that railroads cannot hire labor at a low enough cost to make a profit, then they will go out of business. Also, if railroads don’t want to raise their pay high enough to attract labor, they can start improving their working conditions, and couple that with a more modest pay increase in order to attract labor.
Euclid,
You seem to be having a disconnect with Millennials, and Gen Z .. They don't make pay their top priority generally speaking.. They want a balance of a healthy work environment, and personal time. They don't want to work their lives away... It's really that simple. I can't blame them to be honest..
I remember when it was not legal for a semi to operate on Wisconsin roads on sundays. And our church did not hold services on sundays during August. Simpler times.
When it comes to employment in the 21st Century - it only works one way. That way is not in favor of the employees.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Flintlock76 SD60MAC9500 They don't want to work their lives away... It's really that simple. I can't blame them to be honest.. I can't really blame them either. I worked my butt off for 40+ years, so now I play. I remember my sister-in-law and her husband working for a company back in the 80's who shall remain nameless. Since they were white-collar salaried employees said employer ran them (and others) into the ground with 10, 12, 14 hour workdays. When they got home all they could do was have a quick meal and then collapse into bed. Then the next day it started all over and damn it, it wasn't right. It sure taught me not to think the grass was greener on the other side of the fence. I had the lesson re-enforced at quite a few other places over the years. I thought all that ended with the "Career-crazed Yuppie 1980's" but apparantly it hasn't, not in some quarters.
SD60MAC9500
They don't want to work their lives away... It's really that simple. I can't blame them to be honest..
I can't really blame them either. I worked my butt off for 40+ years, so now I play.
I remember my sister-in-law and her husband working for a company back in the 80's who shall remain nameless. Since they were white-collar salaried employees said employer ran them (and others) into the ground with 10, 12, 14 hour workdays. When they got home all they could do was have a quick meal and then collapse into bed. Then the next day it started all over and damn it, it wasn't right. It sure taught me not to think the grass was greener on the other side of the fence. I had the lesson re-enforced at quite a few other places over the years.
I thought all that ended with the "Career-crazed Yuppie 1980's" but apparantly it hasn't, not in some quarters.
I retired in 2002 from the OTR Trucking Industry.
After a little over 25 years...Recently, acquaintances have noted to me that those still working (Regular woork week hours,etc... seem to hear the old refrain...."...need to keep up, that e-mail stream... "
Being told ,"... it only takes a short time in the evening ! (?)...".
{ The same thing falls under to old saying" don't pea down my leg, and tell me it's rainin'..." )
The "Hammer" seems to be held over their heads... Job Performance, Corporate Loyalty, etc. any that that 'gives' supervisory level 'peope' that 'edge' on their work force...It's the 'game'... old as time.
azrailThe railroads are (and have always been) a 24/7 business. How many more Rentzenberger vans are you going to have to hire to have 9-5 jobs? How high do you raise your shipping rates without losing your shippers to pay for van rentals and 9/5 jobs? And if your customer can't get his shipment on time-he goes to another mode who will.
Nobody is naive enough to think we're going 9-5. But it's pretty pathetic when most people will tell you they held better jobs 5 years ago than today.
azrail The problem is with the investment funds like Black Rock and The Children's Fund-they need to be restricted into how much of a company they can own.
The problem is with the investment funds like Black Rock and The Children's Fund-they need to be restricted into how much of a company they can own.
They often don't own a controlling amount of stock, They may not even be the biggest single stock holder.
They exert control by getting other investors who hold large shares of stock to agree to their gaining control of the board by promising better returns.
Jeff
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SD60MAC9500They don't want to work their lives away... It's really that simple. I can't blame them to be honest..
The railroads are (and have always been) a 24/7 business. How many more Rentzenberger vans are you going to have to hire to have 9-5 jobs? How high do you raise your shipping rates without losing your shippers to pay for van rentals and 9/5 jobs? And if your customer can't get his shipment on time-he goes to another mode who will.
SD60MAC9500You seem to be having a disconnect with Millennials, and Gen Z .. They don't make pay their top priority generally speaking.. They want a balance of a healthy work environment, and personal time. They don't want to work their lives away... It's really that simple. I can't blame them to be honest..
Which just goes to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Those personnel management classes I mentioned were taken in the 1970's...
BaltACD n012944 Euclid I have been told that railroaders are not concerned about the pay, but only concerned about the bad working conditions. Different crafts have different concerns. I have not heard anyone from my craft complain about working conditions. Pay and cost of insurance are the main issues raised.
I mean I have been told that here on the fourm in one of the other threads related to this topic. I regard it as a very generalized statement.
zugmann Higher pay may get workers, but working conditions is what's going to keep them here.
Higher pay may get workers, but working conditions is what's going to keep them here.
Most surveys I saw when I was taking various management courses put pay down the list a ways.
Job satisfaction/conditions is much higher on the list. The railroads are going to have to find a way to provide "home every night" (a common advertising point of local trucking companies) and/or regular hours. A twelve hour shift (max HOS) followed by ten hours off makes a 22 hour day. There is a subset of railroaders who like that kind of schedule. Most others, not so much.
This probably means more people - something the PSR bean counters will clearly chafe at.
BackshopCorrect. Remember when fast food restaurant were staffed with high school kids? Now it's retirees and people in their 20-30s. Many parents spoil their kids by wanting them to "enjoy" HS and not have an afterschool job.
Oh, I remember all right! Mom and Dad kicked me out the door and into a part-time job as soon as I turned sixteen. Not only was it a valuable learning experience about being in the workforce but also the value of money. Money you work your butt off to get isn't something you're likely to blow away casually.
Sadly, many of those fast-food workers in their 20's and 30's are the college grads with unsellable degrees, but that's a WHOLE 'nother story. Man, the sad tales I've read...
Backshop Flintlock76 CSSHEGEWISCH Another factor that crops up is that a lot of younger workers don't seem to realize that if you want to make the big bucks then you will have to put in the time at work to earn them and that sometimes the job has to come first. Sometimes there's other things involved. Several years back I was reading a trade publication for the HVAC industry where an employer said his problem with new hires was they wanted to work but they didn't know how to work! They'd never had part-time or summer jobs so he had to start from Square One teaching the basics of being in the workforce. His attitude was "Hey, you do what you have to do but WHY do I have to do it? Where were their parents, teachers, or anyone else who could have influenced these kids and taught them how the real world operates?" Disturbing, to say the least. Correct. Remember when fast food restaurant were staffed with high school kids? Now it's retirees and people in their 20-30s. Many parents spoil their kids by wanting them to "enjoy" HS and not have an afterschool job.
Flintlock76 CSSHEGEWISCH Another factor that crops up is that a lot of younger workers don't seem to realize that if you want to make the big bucks then you will have to put in the time at work to earn them and that sometimes the job has to come first. Sometimes there's other things involved. Several years back I was reading a trade publication for the HVAC industry where an employer said his problem with new hires was they wanted to work but they didn't know how to work! They'd never had part-time or summer jobs so he had to start from Square One teaching the basics of being in the workforce. His attitude was "Hey, you do what you have to do but WHY do I have to do it? Where were their parents, teachers, or anyone else who could have influenced these kids and taught them how the real world operates?" Disturbing, to say the least.
CSSHEGEWISCH Another factor that crops up is that a lot of younger workers don't seem to realize that if you want to make the big bucks then you will have to put in the time at work to earn them and that sometimes the job has to come first.
Another factor that crops up is that a lot of younger workers don't seem to realize that if you want to make the big bucks then you will have to put in the time at work to earn them and that sometimes the job has to come first.
Sometimes there's other things involved. Several years back I was reading a trade publication for the HVAC industry where an employer said his problem with new hires was they wanted to work but they didn't know how to work! They'd never had part-time or summer jobs so he had to start from Square One teaching the basics of being in the workforce.
His attitude was "Hey, you do what you have to do but WHY do I have to do it? Where were their parents, teachers, or anyone else who could have influenced these kids and taught them how the real world operates?"
Disturbing, to say the least.
Correct. Remember when fast food restaurant were staffed with high school kids? Now it's retirees and people in their 20-30s. Many parents spoil their kids by wanting them to "enjoy" HS and not have an afterschool job.
Several years ago I went to the McDonalds in Sebring, FL - not a single employee was under what appeared to be 70.
I didn't have a job in HS because I was involved in scholastic sports - Track, Soccer and Baseball. Tried Football in Freshman & Sophomore year then the famaily transferred to a school district that took football seriously - met Larry Csonka at the Spring meeting - he was 6'2" and 220 as a Junior - I was 5'8" 160; I could see what the epitaph after tackling practice would be.
Euclid The problem of railroads not able to hire enough employees is a problem of the railroads, and there is one simple solution. Raise the pay. I have been told that railroaders are not concerned about the pay, but only concerned about the bad working conditions. So under that theory, raising the pay will not attract new workers. I think it will attract new workers that care about the money and not about the working conditions. But the value of workers is only determined by what they are willing to accept as wages.
A recent survey from the bureau of economic research showed that for most worker cohorts (except age 20-29) working from home is more valued than pay increases.
Quite true. We had a technician working for us, a good one too, who got his commercial driver's license and became a long-haul trucker. A year later he was back with us and we were glad to have him. The pay was better as a trucker than it was as a copier repair technician but the working conditions sucked.
He was never home, the trucking company bounced him all over the country like a ping-pong ball and finally he had enough.
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