mudchicken There are plenty of rural roads that are closed because the county can't afford to keep them open for little or no use. Add in local terrain and topography and some roads were never built in the first place because of bridge requirements or local dirtwork for cuts and fills would be excessive. (Maybe the taxpayer subsidized trucking industry ought to have some of its directed highway improvement funds transferred to making crossing improvements until they quit colliding with trains? ... PTC for trucks?) Wonder if we will ever see the locomotive cab video or the story of what this dump truck was doing that caused it to be on this road in the first place.?
There are plenty of rural roads that are closed because the county can't afford to keep them open for little or no use. Add in local terrain and topography and some roads were never built in the first place because of bridge requirements or local dirtwork for cuts and fills would be excessive.
(Maybe the taxpayer subsidized trucking industry ought to have some of its directed highway improvement funds transferred to making crossing improvements until they quit colliding with trains? ... PTC for trucks?)
Wonder if we will ever see the locomotive cab video or the story of what this dump truck was doing that caused it to be on this road in the first place.?
Reported that truck was carrying riprap for a levee project by Army Corps.
greyhoundsOK, now tell me why this can't possibly work
Because the cost of design and material is minor. The majority of the cost is the labor involved in installing it. $10-20K cheaper isn't gonna make a difference on a $400K project
BEAUSABREBecause the cost of design and material is minor. The majority of the cost is the labor involved in installing it. $10-20K cheaper isn't gonna make a difference on a $400K project
OK, so how does someone get the labor cost down?
Work the problem. Don't just give up.
I figure you've got to just drill two holes, stick two supports in the holes, add prefabricated lights and gates, dump in some concrete, then link up the wireless communication. About four hours.
Ain't gonna be no $400K.
greyhounds BEAUSABRE Because the cost of design and material is minor. The majority of the cost is the labor involved in installing it. $10-20K cheaper isn't gonna make a difference on a $400K project OK, so how does someone get the labor cost down? Work the problem. Don't just give up. I figure you've got to just drill two holes, stick two supports in the holes, add prefabricated lights and gates, dump in some concrete, then link up the wireless communication. About four hours. Ain't gonna be no $400K.
BEAUSABRE Because the cost of design and material is minor. The majority of the cost is the labor involved in installing it. $10-20K cheaper isn't gonna make a difference on a $400K project
This is not a Homer Bucket project from Home Depot. Commercial grade products are not consumer grade - and for a reason.
People are no longer working for $1.25 a hour with no fringes.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Denver RTD ever get their PTC xings figured out?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Gramp Reported that truck was carrying riprap for a levee project by Army Corps.
Photo of the Amtrak locomotive shows the left front with damage, but not the right front. With the truck going northward and the train eastward the photo suggests the truck was almost clear of the crossing at impact. If this analysis is correct the truck driver was trying to beat the train rather than wait for it to pass.
greyhoundsprefabricated lights and gates
You do realize this part alone is like $250,000?
As to the thought of closing rural grade crossings, one only has to drive down an interstate through farm country to see the idea is not that big of a deal. Local roads were closed for the highway, and there can be quite some distance between over/underpasses. If the locals in those areas can adapt, so can those that live in the area of 90 mph trains.
Concerning the crossing at the accident site, there was a Facebook post showing how horrible the site distance is there, and that post was put up before the accident. There is some vegetation that blocks quite a bit of the view, making it hard to see a train coming.
https://www.facebook.com/100068030815707/posts/pfbid02Tbfw84s9kffZqqGyWtGaJNi3BaAMTWmjV2XaioPaBCt1LVLN2tLjrDVy8abpUzNDl/?d=n
An "expensive model collector"
diningcar Photo of the Amtrak locomotive shows the left front with damage, but not the right front. With the truck going northward and the train eastward the photo suggests the truck was almost clear of the crossing at impact. If this analysis is correct the truck driver was trying to beat the train rather than wait for it to pass.
Or the driver never saw the train.
NittanyLionYou do realize this part alone is like $250,000?
Why do four lights and two gates cost $250,000?
Someone said it was mainly the labor that made the total cost $400,000. Now it's the lights and gates that make up most of the cost.
greyhoundsIf you could get the cost down to around $4K instead of $400K it would be feasible to protect more crossings.
I'm not sure about the figure $4,000. My little town just reconfigured three crossings with longer gates and leveled approaches, and the cost was over $1 milllion.
My rural county has double mainline BNSF crossing it. There are over 35 crossings, most without lights or arms. And my county is not real large, either in area or population. How much tax money would it take?
York1 John
York1I'm not sure about the figure $4,000. My little town just reconfigured three crossings with longer gates and leveled approaches, and the cost was over $1 milllion. My rural county has double mainline BNSF crossing it. There are over 35 crossings, most without lights or arms. And my county is not real large, either in area or population. How much tax money would it take?
I'm not sure of the $4K either. It was an example of how reducing the cost of automatic crossing protection would allow and enable more such crossing protection.
I would kind of like some folks to work with me on this instead of telling me why it won't work because it's just too cost prohibitive.
Here's an example of what there is to work with:
Assume PTC.
What you need is a standardized, volume produced, low cost kit that can readily be attached to those post already in the ground. No need to dig holes.
The kit would contain the flashing red lights and a gate system. It could be added to the crossbucks in a few hours. It would be activated and released by the PTC system.
Now, if it's not a PTC line there is a need to find another method of activation/release. But there certainly is a way to do that if anyone cares to figure it out.
I doubt that crossbuck posts could support the weight of flashers and gates. I don't think that PTC (someone tell me if I'm wrong) activates crossing gates. If it does, great. If not, you'll have to activate them via the track circuit or ditch a trench for the wiring. This is just one crossing. Also, the truck driver, being higher up, probably had a better view than those at ground level.
OHIO has an inexpensive solution for low vehicle count crossings. It consists of a reflector mounted on cross buck poles. It is a broad directio reflector that will at least provide a flashing red on the pole from flashing ditch lights. The reflector consists of two pieces long pieces welded togete at a 90 degree angle. The joint is pointed at the road so the reflectors are at a 45 degree angle to both direction of the track.
Have not found a picture but will make some more effort.
n012944Or the driver never saw the train.
Impediments to sightlines notwithstanding, remember that the road and rails meet at a 45 degree angle. Get in your car and see how your vision is 45 degrees behind you on your left side. If the dirver didn't make a positive effort to look down the tracks, he may not have seen the oncoming train.
It's been reported that the crossbucks included a stop sign, so theoretically the driver did stop.
Getting a heavily loaded dump truck going isn't going to be a fast process. He may have misjudged the speed of the train (around 130 feet per second) vs how long it would take him to clear the crossing. I think it's been mentioned that there was something of a hump to get over the crossing, which would also have an effect on his clearing the crossing.
Investigators are reportedly checking the forward-facing camera on the locomotive, which will probably provide some clues as to the driver's behavor.
No conclusions here - just factors that are probably in play in the investigation.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Install a large radius "S" at the crossing and eliminate the hump. This will give a 90 degree crossing that will give plenty of sight to vehicles.
Install a large radius "S" over the tracks and eliminate the hump. This will give a 90 degree view for the vehicles.
Cheaper to close the crossing..any curve reduces speeds, which increases costs. Plus the cost/availability of buying adjacent land.
This line had the Super Chief running on it for years with no grade crossing mishaps. We need more intelligent truck drivers.
azrailCheaper to close the crossing..any curve reduces speeds, which increases costs. Plus the cost/availability of buying adjacent land. This line had the Super Chief running on it for years with no grade crossing mishaps. We need more intelligent truck drivers.
Closing is easier said than done from a local political perspective.
Virtually ANY main line track structure is going to be built higher than the surrounding area to provide a solid base for the track structure and for drainage considerations.
If one thinks $400K is too much for automatic crossing protection, just think what the bill will be for line relocation?
Some people need to get their head stuck back in the world of reality.
azrail This line had the Super Chief running on it for years with no grade crossing mishaps. We need more intelligent truck drivers.
Or luck just ran out.
n012944 azrail This line had the Super Chief running on it for years with no grade crossing mishaps. We need more intelligent truck drivers. Or luck just ran out.
Remember - not only the Super Chief was running on the line but the Chief, the El Capitan, the Scout, the Fast Mail and probably half a dozen more - each way DAILY.
That crossing is a worse nightmare than I thought,
1. It is a highly sloped grade.
2. The grade only stops at the outside rail. Not any flat space before outside rail.
3. The road to and over the crossing is only one lane.
4. Visibility of oncoming traffic probably is nill for approching low profile vehicles.
5. The road is gravel. Is it gravel or paving for all parts of crossing from out side rails? Acceleration and braking on gravel is reduced. Did truck try to get across crossing but spin tires?
6 Truck bed pictures appear to indicate that it had at least 4 axels. Depending on the axel suspension maybe not all axels might be able to contact road and crossing on the slopes. More possible problems on gravel.
7. Riprap very heavy how could that affected some of the above?
3. Not a consideration.
4. Not a consideration for this accident.
5. Class 8 trucks only wish they could spin their tires.
6. Not a problem. The truck wasn't bottomed out.
7. If he was legal, weightwise, it wouldn't be a consideration.
Has the funeral been held? Is the body even cold?
Widow of truck driver killed in Amtrak collision files wrongful death suit (msn.com)
BEAUSABRE Has the funeral been held? Is the body even cold? Widow of truck driver killed in Amtrak collision files wrongful death suit (msn.com)
Backshop BEAUSABRE Has the funeral been held? Is the body even cold? Widow of truck driver killed in Amtrak collision files wrongful death suit (msn.com) She's suing the county and the railroad, each for only $25,000. She must've not thought much of her husband.
She's suing the county and the railroad, each for only $25,000. She must've not thought much of her husband.
Just place holder amounts - while she lines up her ducks
BaltACDRemember - not only the Super Chief was running on the line but the Chief, the El Capitan, the Scout, the Fast Mail and probably half a dozen more - each way DAILY.
The FRA/DOT crossing data shows over 50 trains a day... Might be high. On the other hand, if you want to see exactly how much traffic runs on the line, there's a webcam at La Plata, just a few miles up the line...
MC is out of the office for a vacation, so we probably won't be hearing from him for a bit.
blue streak 16 Truck bed pictures appear to indicate that it had at least 4 axles. Depending on the axel suspension maybe not all axles might be able to contact road and crossing on the slopes. More possible problems on gravel.
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