I'm posting this here but only to move this to PASSENGER forum.
https://www.kmbc.com/article/passenger-train-derails-missouri-monday-afternoon/40435950
Dump truck driver is in some serious trouble. (every public crossing within 5 miles of town is gated.)
Stalled on crossing or drove around gates?
Probably FELT STREET / MP 360.56 005-278V Marcelline Sub
Waiting on the details.
mudchicken Dump truck driver is in some serious trouble. (every public crossing within 5 miles of town is gated.) Stalled on crossing or drove around gates?
Yes, he's in DEEP trouble assuming he's not dead. From the live feed it looks like the truck came completely apart.
Shocking to say the least. I don't think there's ever been an Amtrak train put totally on the ground like that.
Stalled on the crossing or going around the gates? We'll have to wait to find out.
mudchickenDump truck driver is in some serious trouble. (every public crossing within 5 miles of town is gated.) Stalled on crossing or drove around gates? Probably FELT STREET / MP 360.56 005-278V Marcelline Sub Waiting on the details.
Is this the former ATSF 90 MPH territory?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Mendon, MO, not KS.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Just looked on Google Maps. The tracks cross Felt Street and there are two main tracks with a third that ends just beyond Felt St. There are signals and gates on both sides of the crossing.
Location is at CR 113 just west of Mendon. Crossbucks only
xrds72 Location is at CR 113 just west of Mendon. Crossbucks only
Yes, gravel road with crossbucks. State Patrol reported. An Appleton, Wi Boy Scout troop group and adult leaders were on the train. Four children were injured, but not seriously. Others (ironically) were helping other passengers.
Gramp xrds72 Location is at CR 113 just west of Mendon. Crossbucks only Yes, gravel road with crossbucks. County sheriff reported. An Appleton, Wi Boy Scout troop group and adult leaders were on the train. Four children were injured, but not seriously. Others (ironically) were helping other passengers.
Yes, gravel road with crossbucks. County sheriff reported. An Appleton, Wi Boy Scout troop group and adult leaders were on the train. Four children were injured, but not seriously. Others (ironically) were helping other passengers.
National News is reporting 3 dead including the truck driver.
Believe this is about two miles west of the town on a gravel road with no electronic crossing warning devices; just a crossbuck
Private crossing with cross bucks only? Any trackage with passenger trains at least needs proper gated crossings.These private crossings should be eliminated or cease running service.
Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B033'38.1%22N+93%C2%B010'52.2%22W/@39.5605975,-93.1829962,461m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0xf2df087ca440031c!7e2!8m2!3d39.5605941!4d-93.1811532
Looks like a public road with excellent sightlines (no brush, trees or buildings).
In Canada the standards for new crossings require warning devices on double track, and when double track is built any existing crossings must be upgraded to current standards. There are still a lot of older crossings that are grandfathered in, both public and private.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
That was the old 90 mph (ATS) territory. If the crossing is as claimed, CR-113 (Porche Prairie Road)is in the middle of a 14 mile long tangent with light curves at each end. (The train [#4]would not have gotten to Mendon yet. 005-284Y Has not had any type of reportable accident/ collision in over 50 years according to FRA. Crossing is at about a 45 degree angle, table top flat (0%) grade and is just east (1.5 Mi) of the old Wabash line to Omaha used to cross near Whitham (ATSF over WAB)....As DC correctly pointed out, wide-open site-lines (farm fields and almost no trees).
charlie hebdo Private crossing with cross bucks only? Any trackage with passenger trains at least needs proper gated crossings.These private crossings should be eliminated or cease running service.
Clear sightlines are sometimes the worst.. no reference points makes it very easy to misjudge speed and distance.
xrds72 Location is at CR 113 just west of Mendon. Crossbucks only.
Location is at CR 113 just west of Mendon. Crossbucks only.
The road and tracks cross at about a 45 degree angle. I haven't seen which way the truck was travelling, but if it was northbound, the train would have been seen over over the driver's left shoulder. Depending on a lot of variables, the driver may not have seen the train.
The train was running late, so the driver may not have expected it (I know, always expect...)
Just another factor to throw into the mix.
If the truck was southbound, the driver should have had a clear view of the oncoming train.
EDIT: The crossing database for crossing 005284Y shows 58 trains a day, plus two Amtrak. Average road traffic (1989) was five, 10% trucks. From the FRA crossing databse.
Flintlock76 mudchicken Dump truck driver is in some serious trouble. (every public crossing within 5 miles of town is gated.) Stalled on crossing or drove around gates? Yes, he's in DEEP trouble assuming he's not dead. From the live feed it looks like the truck came completely apart. Shocking to say the least. I don't think there's ever been an Amtrak train put totally on the ground like that. Stalled on the crossing or going around the gates? We'll have to wait to find out.
mudchicken
Dump truck driver is in some serious trouble. (every public crossing within 5 miles of town is gated.) Stalled on crossing or drove around gates?
The 16 Boy Scouts from Appleton were coming back from an adventure week at that Boy Scout camp in New Mexico that Santa Fe/Amtrak have ferried kids to forever in the summertime. Two of the adult leaders were taken to the hospital. Hoping broken ribs were the worst of the injuries. The kids lended first aid to other passengers and the dump truck driver. Reported driver as deceased, so don't know if only one person was in the truck. The group were scheduled to take the Hiawatha from Chicago up to Milwaukee once they got to Chicago.
I've complained here with pushback about the need to invest in grade crossing elimination on trunk lines, particularly where commuter/Amtrak train service is prevalent. It was accomplished on the NEC. A bigger chunk of state highway dollars should be directed to that in my book.
GrampI've complained here with pushback about the need to invest in grade crossing elimination on trunk lines, particularly where commuter/Amtrak train service is prevalent. It was accomplished on the NEC. A bigger chunk of state highway dollars should be directed to that in my book.
I don't disagree.
But, as MC points out, that crossing has zero accident history. With the limited traffic (in another post), grade separation is an unlikely possibility, and the 4 or so mile detour closing the crossing would require, it might not be a popular decision locally.
I'm sure the highway folks have bigger fish to fry, this incident notwithstanding.
Gramp... I've complained here with pushback about the need to invest in grade crossing elimination on trunk lines, particularly where commuter/Amtrak train service is prevalent. It was accomplished on the NEC. A bigger chunk of state highway dollars should be directed to that in my book.
Your complaints pale in comparison to the efforts the carriers expend in crossing elimination - and the push back they get from any and every local organization and governmental body in the area.
Before I retired, I know local operating division officers were given a quota number of crossings to be closed on the division and how closely they attained or exceeded that number was one aspect of their 'performance review' that set their compensation.
It was the scout leader's son who tried to aid the truck driver, and he was with him when he died. And some of the other scouts' medical aid training that automatically kicked in in their being able to assist others on the train.
BaltACD Gramp ... I've complained here with pushback about the need to invest in grade crossing elimination on trunk lines, particularly where commuter/Amtrak train service is prevalent. It was accomplished on the NEC. A bigger chunk of state highway dollars should be directed to that in my book. Your complaints pale in comparison to the efforts the carriers expend in crossing elimination - and the push back they get from any and every local organization and governmental body in the area. Before I retired, I know local operating division officers were given a quota number of crossings to be closed on the division and how closely they attained or exceeded that number was one aspect of their 'performance review' that set their compensation.
Gramp ... I've complained here with pushback about the need to invest in grade crossing elimination on trunk lines, particularly where commuter/Amtrak train service is prevalent. It was accomplished on the NEC. A bigger chunk of state highway dollars should be directed to that in my book.
I'm not knocking the railroads for crossings not being taken out. I was speaking to choices governmental bodies involved with roads make.
tree68 Gramp I've complained here with pushback about the need to invest in grade crossing elimination on trunk lines, particularly where commuter/Amtrak train service is prevalent. It was accomplished on the NEC. A bigger chunk of state highway dollars should be directed to that in my book. I don't disagree. But, as MC points out, that crossing has zero accident history. With the limited traffic (in another post), grade separation is an unlikely possibility, and the 4 or so mile detour closing the crossing would require, it might not be a popular decision locally. I'm sure the highway folks have bigger fish to fry, this incident notwithstanding.
Gramp I've complained here with pushback about the need to invest in grade crossing elimination on trunk lines, particularly where commuter/Amtrak train service is prevalent. It was accomplished on the NEC. A bigger chunk of state highway dollars should be directed to that in my book.
tree68
I understand the perspective. What I disagree with is the foundational thinking often in play. Remember the battle over putting seatbelts in cars. The probability of you being in an accident at an intersection... any intersection... no matter how busy... through time... is such that it's folly not to wear a seatbelt. The "cost" is worth it. We know an active railroad right-of-way is by its nature mighty dangerous.
I understand the perspective. What I disagree with is the foundational thinking often in play. Remember the battle over putting seatbelts in cars. The probability of you being in an accident at an intersection... any intersection... no matter how busy... through time... is such that it's folly not to wear a seatbelt. The "cost" is worth it.
We know an active railroad right-of-way is by its nature mighty dangerous.
From the Amtrak Website:
Service Update:
As a result of the derailment, passengers who were traveling onboard Train 4, which departed L.A. on Sunday, June 26, will be reaccommodated as quickly as possible on other trains or buses as available. Additionally, Southwest Chief Train 3, scheduled to depart Chicago on Tuesday, June 28, will now originate at Kansas City (KCY).
Couldn"t they detour the Southwest Chief; Kansas City to St. Louis? Then St. Louis to Chicago? Amtrak already runs over these two routes. I know it would be a longer trip but I would think it is possible. Only the stops between Galesburg, Il. and Kansas City would be missed. How many stops does the Southwest Chief make between these two cities?
railfanjohn From the Amtrak Website: Service Update: As a result of the derailment, passengers who were traveling onboard Train 4, which departed L.A. on Sunday, June 26, will be reaccommodated as quickly as possible on other trains or buses as available. Additionally, Southwest Chief Train 3, scheduled to depart Chicago on Tuesday, June 28, will now originate at Kansas City (KCY). Couldn"t they detour the Southwest Chief; Kansas City to St. Louis? Then St. Louis to Chicago? Amtrak already runs over these two routes. I know it would be a longer trip but I would think it is possible. Only the stops between Galesburg, Il. and Kansas City would be missed. How many stops does the Southwest Chief make between these two cities?
Perhaps the next No. 4 will be turned at Kansas City tomorrow and assume No. 3's schedule from there.
railfanjohn Couldn"t they detour the Southwest Chief; Kansas City to St. Louis? Then St. Louis to Chicago? Amtrak already runs over these two routes. I know it would be a longer trip but I would think it is possible. Only the stops between Galesburg, Il. and Kansas City would be missed. How many stops does the Southwest Chief make between these two cities?
From the news
"MODOT's 2022 State Freight and Rail plan released in February listed the intersection at County Road 113 and Porche Prairie Road for installation of lights, and gates, and roadway improvements at the public crossing.
The plan estimated the cost for improvements at $400,000. It lists projects for their ability to improve the "efficiency, intermodal and safety of freight shipments in Missouri."
Another draft document for anticipated project schedules listed the improvements to the intersection in MODOT's 2022 state fiscal year project budget. However, it is unclear when or if that work was scheduled to begin. A spokeswoman for MoDOT in Chariton County said Monday evening that MODOT's state office is working to provide answers to questions about the schedule of safety improvements at the intersection."
Flintlock76Yes, he's in DEEP trouble assuming he's not dead
He's gone
SD70Dude railfanjohn From the Amtrak Website: Service Update: As a result of the derailment, passengers who were traveling onboard Train 4, which departed L.A. on Sunday, June 26, will be reaccommodated as quickly as possible on other trains or buses as available. Additionally, Southwest Chief Train 3, scheduled to depart Chicago on Tuesday, June 28, will now originate at Kansas City (KCY). Couldn"t they detour the Southwest Chief; Kansas City to St. Louis? Then St. Louis to Chicago? Amtrak already runs over these two routes. I know it would be a longer trip but I would think it is possible. Only the stops between Galesburg, Il. and Kansas City would be missed. How many stops does the Southwest Chief make between these two cities? Perhaps the next No. 4 will be turned at Kansas City tomorrow and assume No. 3's schedule from there.
Remember - this incident has taken one complete trainset in the operation of #3 & #4 out of service. Amtrak has been having issues keeping enough equipment operational to run their normal schedules. Losing one complete trainset does not help the situation. Inserting a route that takes longer to negotiate than the normal route doesn't help the equipment situation either.
For over 30 years I have driven medium and heavy duty trucks. The view out the right side is more restricted than you think, what with a 2 square foot blindspot due to the west coast and spot mirrors. The dirt road does not cross the tracks at 90 degrees. If the shallow angle (less than 90 degrees) is on the right side, the driver has got to angle more to the right in order to get any decent view down the tracks. That means moving to the left first in order to have enough room on this narrow road to swing to the right. And you better keep the inside wheel of the dual wheels on the "pavement", or you risk getting stuck.
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