SD60MAC9500 BaltACD Locally I am noticing SAIA LTL Trucking has a decent size TV ad campaign going. I haven't figured out if they are looking for business or for employees. I handled some of the shipping receiveing at my late Uncle's electronics company. We used SAIA. I would send over the shipment details. We shipped about 6 pallets/week. They gave us some pretty good pallet rates. Service seemed to be pretty decent.
BaltACD Locally I am noticing SAIA LTL Trucking has a decent size TV ad campaign going. I haven't figured out if they are looking for business or for employees.
Locally I am noticing SAIA LTL Trucking has a decent size TV ad campaign going. I haven't figured out if they are looking for business or for employees.
I handled some of the shipping receiveing at my late Uncle's electronics company. We used SAIA. I would send over the shipment details. We shipped about 6 pallets/week. They gave us some pretty good pallet rates. Service seemed to be pretty decent.
Well I'll be dagnabbed! I'm happy to see that SAIA is still around. I remembered them as a local trucking company back in the 1950's, with a good reputation. They were a customer of ours with a computer system in their Houma, La. headquarters in the 1980's, but were bought by a company in Atlanta (I think). SD60, I was surprised to see you mention them way up north , so I Wiki'ed them; looks like they've had quite an adventure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saia
Sorry for the diversion. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
charlie hebdo Sounds apocryphal but sad.
Sounds apocryphal but sad.
Pretty bad when you're unknowingly carrying your own "death sentence" around with you.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
wjstix I believe when someone left railroad employment, they were always given a letter showing their work history for the railroad, so they could show this to another railroad to verify they had experience. It's been claimed that after the Pullman strike of the 1890s, some strike leaders who were fired by their railroads were given letters written on paper with a special watermark symbol that could be seen when it was held up to the light, The symbol indicated that this employee was a 'troublemaker' and shouldn't be hired.
I believe when someone left railroad employment, they were always given a letter showing their work history for the railroad, so they could show this to another railroad to verify they had experience. It's been claimed that after the Pullman strike of the 1890s, some strike leaders who were fired by their railroads were given letters written on paper with a special watermark symbol that could be seen when it was held up to the light, The symbol indicated that this employee was a 'troublemaker' and shouldn't be hired.
The Crane with the broken neck. I've read the story before in a couple of different books, but just found this with supposed images of the watermark.
CPRR Discussion Group - Central Pacific Railroad Photographic History Museum
Jeff
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It's also been in some general news articles that the railroads are on the Top Ten list of worst places to work.
The Worst Companies to Work For in 2021 (moneywise.com)
BaltACD When a company or industry makes their work enviornment unsatisfactory for the employees currently employed it does two things. It makes those currently employed look elsewhere for their employment - many do leave. It makes it that much harder to entice 'new hires' to come on board as they will of course interact with the alread disgruntled work force. When it comes to hiring people - bad publicity is a killer.
When a company or industry makes their work enviornment unsatisfactory for the employees currently employed it does two things. It makes those currently employed look elsewhere for their employment - many do leave. It makes it that much harder to entice 'new hires' to come on board as they will of course interact with the alread disgruntled work force. When it comes to hiring people - bad publicity is a killer.
Very true! And prospective new hires should know things aren't good when they are cautioned about the rumor mill!!
Run rabbit run!
Ulrich In years past the carriers also seemed very confident in their ability to find the people they needed. Back in the 1980s and 1990s both CN and CP told me unless I had family already employed with them my chances were close to nil. And now.. I get emails from both almost every day attempting to entice me to hire on. I sure would if I were 20 something again!
In years past the carriers also seemed very confident in their ability to find the people they needed. Back in the 1980s and 1990s both CN and CP told me unless I had family already employed with them my chances were close to nil. And now.. I get emails from both almost every day attempting to entice me to hire on. I sure would if I were 20 something again!
Train crew size went from four in the late 1970s to two by the early 1990s. When the unions agreed to conductor-only crews and the elimination of the caboose part of the agreement was that everyone who had already hired on could never be laid off and would be paid a guaranteed wage.
This led to the creation of what are called 'furlough boards', basically extra spareboards with a 4300 mile/month guarantee, no matter how much you actually worked. Furlough employees would only be called after the regular working boards had been exhausted, so if the working boards were properly adjusted and/or things were slow you could sit on the furlough board for surprisingly long periods without actually working (one guy recently talked of going three months between calls, while of course still getting paid).
CN did buy out a lot of people, but service cuts, branchline abandonments, and then Hunter Harrison's efforts to cut as many trains and crews as possible meant that some terminals had a furlough board into the 2000s. They hired very few conductors after 1992 and there is a big gap on our seniority list between 1998 and 2005. I believe Dauphin, Manitoba ended up having the last furlough board, they had one guy on it just last year.
But business increased, people started retiring (Hunter also drove off a lot of folks who couldn't stand him and were in a position to leave, same thing happened at CP later on) and by the late 2000s CN was short of crews. And we're still short whenever the railroad is busy, or simply operating with what I would call a normal level of traffic. It just doesn't make the news.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
There is also no mandatory retirement age required by RRB. Some railroads may have age limits for management, especially the senoir management as part of their employment contracts. (I believe 65 is the limit at UP for the CEO position.) Some union contracts had a provision for 70 and out, but I don't think they're enforceable any more by law.
I've heard of a few working into their 80's over the last few years. Reading old railroad magazines and employee publications, there were those who worked well into their 70's and 80's, mostly office people like agents and other clerks.
wjstixBoomers I'm sure still exist, but they were much more common a century or so back. Part of the reason the government set up the US Railroad Retirement Board in the 1930s was because many railroaders never got a pension, since they never stayed at one railroad long enough to qualify. Now railroaders pay into the same federal pension fund no matter which railroad they work for (unless/until they are promoted to a supervisory position, when they begin to be covered by that railroad's private pension.) ...
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Non-contract railroad supervision is covered by RRB and has been since its inception. Non-contract supervision ALSO have their own private pension system.
Since Staggers, the railroads have done everything possible to classify as many departments as possible to NOT BE railroad employees. When I got placed in Chessie Computer Services Inc., I was removed from RRB and placed in SSI.
Within my 51.5 years of service to CSX and its predecessors it also included 20 years of non-contract supervisory service. In retirement I get pensions from both RRB and the CSX Pension system.
My Grandfather paid in to RRB from its inception for 22 years until he retired and then collected from RRB for 33 years until his passing.
Boomers I'm sure still exist, but they were much more common a century or so back. Part of the reason the government set up the US Railroad Retirement Board in the 1930s was because many railroaders never got a pension, since they never stayed at one railroad long enough to qualify. Now railroaders pay into the same federal pension fund no matter which railroad they work for (unless/until they are promoted to a supervisory position, when they begin to be covered by that railroad's private pension.)
BTW I believe the requirement to retire at age 70 may be an RRB requirement. At the time the RRB started, there were many 80 and even 90 year old railroaders still at work. Getting them to retire opened up jobs during the Great Depression.
tree68I recall reading of "black listing" of problem employees/boomers. Word got around.
While word would get around - it was much harder to enforce in the days before computers. In the Boomer Era the local Trainmaster on a territory was the hiring and firing officer. There wasn't much in the way of what today is known as HR.
I recall reading of "black listing" of problem employees/boomers. Word got around.
I've heard of a few people who would work for a railroad awhile and then move on to another railroad, mostly on the short lines. They weren't really short term, following the temporary "boom times" types, but would work until they thought the grass was greener elsewhere.
A few of our guys have worked other railroads, again for short lines/regionals, when they were furloughed. Some places now require a person to relinquish seniority at another company before they'll hire you. Because when the class one called them back, they generally went.
We have a bunch of "borrow outs" working my territory. Two groups of trainmen, who's normal work loacation is San Antonio TX and Proviso IL. They get a premium payment on top of regular wages, and lodging provided by the company. It's next to impossible to transfer from one seniority district to another. A couple of our people have tried, and were denied. A little easier, but still hard to get done, is trading seniority with a person on another district. The reasons that either are hard to do is that the list of those needing to approve a transfer or swap is long and it only takes one to stop it.
In the past they have offered permanent transfers to places where they need people. Those are the ones that come with movement allowances. They haven't had one like that for years. They have a in more recent times, told furloughed people, those who just graduated training and became conductors, that they could do a permanent transfer to places needing help, but on their own dime.
blue streak 1Were there a lot of "Boomers" who would move from carrier to carrier depending on the season? Furloughed from one carrier then go to another RR short of specific crafts. Sometims on 1st carrier would keep seniority date when returing.
There were 'Boomers' moving about until about the mid 1960's when the carriers first began to utilize computers and the data that they were able to develop - especially the data about the 'real cost' of having an employee on the payroll.
Once it was understood the benefits of computer applications covering payroll and employment calculations the carriers were no longer receptive to 'boomers' trying to game the system.
With the enactment of Staggers in 1980 and the resulting mergers that reduced Class 1 carriers to a nominal handful, there weren't that many carriers to bounce around. Additionally the Class 1 carriers had seasonal fluctions among the geographical areas they serve and ended up in many cases offering 'temporary trainsfer' opportunities among craft employees. Basically shifting employees about the company without incuring the expenses that a permanent transfer would lock in.
Were there a lot of "Boomers" who would move from carrier to carrier depending on the season? Furloughed from one carrier then go to another RR short of specific crafts. Sometims on 1st carrier would keep seniority date when returing.
rrnut282 To get back on topic, yes the railroads have experienced crew shortages. It seems like each and every economic down-turn and up-tick.
To get back on topic, yes the railroads have experienced crew shortages. It seems like each and every economic down-turn and up-tick.
I don't recall there ever having been any widespread shortages until quite recently... perhaps they weren't reported or they were quickly dealt with. Sure, there have been isolated areas that have been caught shorthanded but never anything across the board like this. But then again... it's pretty much the same in every industry so its harder to isolate what factors if any are directly attributable to railroad mismanagement.
rrnut282 A pilot has to accumulate 1500 hours of flight-time on their own dime just to be considered for a job at an airline. There are many classes of pilot's licences. Single-engine, single-engine instrument, multi-engine, multi-engine instrument. You have to work your way up the ladder, with classes and hands-on training (bigger toys) getting more expensive each step. This is why many ask Uncle Sam to help with that initial experience.
A pilot has to accumulate 1500 hours of flight-time on their own dime just to be considered for a job at an airline. There are many classes of pilot's licences. Single-engine, single-engine instrument, multi-engine, multi-engine instrument. You have to work your way up the ladder, with classes and hands-on training (bigger toys) getting more expensive each step. This is why many ask Uncle Sam to help with that initial experience.
Aspiring airline pilots used to rack up hours pretty much any way they could.. back in the 70s Sugarbush, VT (for example) was a haven for gliding.. and of course gliders had to be towed to altitude. The tow pilots were all young guys looking to get on with airlines.. and they'd spent every day basically doing nothing but take offs and landings in old tail draggers that were used as recce planes in Vietnam and had been repurposed for pulling gliders after the War. Back then there was little help from anyone.. you had to find a way to rack up your hours and of course if you digned up a plane in the process your chances of moving on to the airlines just went from slim to none. Not sure how its done now... no doubt some time on simulators is now counted as training.. and maybe the onerous hours requirements have been reduced as well.
Then after hiring in (usually, but not always to a commuter carrier) you get paid to take airline specific and aircraft specific classes. After several check-rides you are finally cleared to bid on a line (sequence of flights that need staffed). For example a line might be: DTW - FWA - DTW -PHX spend the night PHX - ATL -PHX-DTW several days off and do it again. They have computers generate the thousands of bid lines with the goal of getting 80 hours of flight time per month per pilot. They don't get to loaf too much as there is always recurrent training, new procedures, mandatory simulator time, etc that they have to accomplish each calendar year. IINM they don't get paid for most of these fillers.
The low man on the totem pole often sits stand-by because with their senority, it's all that is left. Standby (or ready reserve) means dressed and ready to go sitting at the hub or airport with many flights waiting for someone to call in sick so you can take over their line.
blue streak 1 n012944 There is a difference. Pilots have to retire at age 65 per the FAA, it is mandatory. I have seen quite a few pilots complain about that fact. They feel that if they can still pass a physical, and need to continue working, there is no reason for them to stop doing so. You only have part of the picture. I believe that it was after WW-2 that the predecessor of the FAA passed the age 60 retirement age. Later the ALPA union actually pressed for a later retirement age but got nowhere with the FAA. In 2001 congress was getting ready to pass an age 65 law but 911 intervened. Sometime after 2006 Congress passed a law moving age to 65. Congress requires age 65 not the FAA. FAA had to change regulations effective the date law became effective. Age 65 became the rule. Now there are international complications. Many countries in the past followed the US lead and enacted age 60 rule. Many have kept the rule and some of those will not allow any age 60 - 65 pilots to operate into their airports and even worse very few no overfly. Others require 1 pilot to be under 60. EDIT: Flight engineers, navigators, and radio operators no age limit. Extra crew you can only guess what internationally. At oone time a few African countries no age limit. Now unknown.
n012944 There is a difference. Pilots have to retire at age 65 per the FAA, it is mandatory. I have seen quite a few pilots complain about that fact. They feel that if they can still pass a physical, and need to continue working, there is no reason for them to stop doing so.
There is a difference. Pilots have to retire at age 65 per the FAA, it is mandatory. I have seen quite a few pilots complain about that fact. They feel that if they can still pass a physical, and need to continue working, there is no reason for them to stop doing so.
You only have part of the picture. I believe that it was after WW-2 that the predecessor of the FAA passed the age 60 retirement age. Later the ALPA union actually pressed for a later retirement age but got nowhere with the FAA. In 2001 congress was getting ready to pass an age 65 law but 911 intervened. Sometime after 2006 Congress passed a law moving age to 65. Congress requires age 65 not the FAA.
FAA had to change regulations effective the date law became effective. Age 65 became the rule.
Now there are international complications. Many countries in the past followed the US lead and enacted age 60 rule. Many have kept the rule and some of those will not allow any age 60 - 65 pilots to operate into their airports and even worse very few no overfly. Others require 1 pilot to be under 60.
EDIT: Flight engineers, navigators, and radio operators no age limit. Extra crew you can only guess what internationally. At oone time a few African countries no age limit. Now unknown.
Airlines, railroads and I suspect marine interests have all done away with limited responsibility 'introductory' position. On the railroad side there are no longer fireman or brakemen that are on train crews to learn how to be Engineers and Conductors. Airlines are down to Pilot and Copilot being the only personnel on the flight deck; in the USA the FAA sets the flight time requirements for people to attain any of the jobs on the flight deck - the flight time required is not insignificant.
There are no longer any flight engineers, navigators or radio operators working for any airline that you'd care to fly on. Maybe some 3rd world ones, but that's about it. Also, a few cargo outfits. Even then, it's only FE's (2nd Officers).
Backshop I'm on an airline forum and this thread would fit right in. People from outside the industry suggest that retirees be brought back. Insiders are continually telling them that there's a reason they retired and they aren't coming back. Same complaints, too. Fatigue, long hours, etc.
I'm on an airline forum and this thread would fit right in. People from outside the industry suggest that retirees be brought back. Insiders are continually telling them that there's a reason they retired and they aren't coming back. Same complaints, too. Fatigue, long hours, etc.
I agree with them, however you will never see the pilots unions push for that. The union likes the forced retirement, it helps continue the pilot shortage, giving them leverage with the airlines.
There is no mandatory retirement age for railroaders. I know a couple still working in their 80's. They have their different reasons, but at least they have that choice.
An "expensive model collector"
zugmann Ulrich Sigh.. no one here has suggested bringing retirees back. The idea was to encourage those who don't want to retire and those who aren't sure to stay on .. big difference. Cajoling people who have made up their minds to retire is an exercise in futility.. If guys don't want to retire, they don't have to (as long as they can pass their physicals). I've seen a bunch stay long after they could retire. But on the flip side, those that stay take up spots on the roster that will prevent others from moving up, and those towards the bottom get tired of waiting to hold something "more decent-er" and may end up leaving. So to keep a qualified person 5 more years, you may lose a qualified person that had 25+ more years left.
Ulrich Sigh.. no one here has suggested bringing retirees back. The idea was to encourage those who don't want to retire and those who aren't sure to stay on .. big difference. Cajoling people who have made up their minds to retire is an exercise in futility..
If guys don't want to retire, they don't have to (as long as they can pass their physicals). I've seen a bunch stay long after they could retire.
But on the flip side, those that stay take up spots on the roster that will prevent others from moving up, and those towards the bottom get tired of waiting to hold something "more decent-er" and may end up leaving. So to keep a qualified person 5 more years, you may lose a qualified person that had 25+ more years left.
Some union contracts, probably no longer enforcable, had clauses that one had to retire on the last day of your birth month once you reached the age of 70 years old. Probably to make room for those coming up the roster.
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