Sending US combat units into Ukraine before the invasion began might have deterred Putin. He may have hesitated to attack US troops the same as we hesitate to attack Russians.
Euclid BaltACD Russians complaining of an attack on a fuel depot near the Ukraine border. I can't imagine how that could happen in a war between the Ukraine and Russia! [/sarcasm] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F45FHLpKtI This is a surprising development which I would expect supporters of Ukraine to welcome. Yet CNN almost seems to not approve. They seem to think it was a little too provocative for Ukraine to take the war to Putin instead of just being crushed into oblivion because Putin wants their country. CNN worries that the tone set by Ukraine attacking inside of Russia might offend Putin and cause him to back out of negotiations for a peaceful settlement. Particularly revealing of what CNN hopes for is in the last section by Kimberly Dozier starting at 2:50. She says that Ukraine striking inside of Russia is our “worst nightmare.” Why would she think Ukraine successfully retaliating against Russian aggression would be our worst nightmare? The answer apparently is that our main interest is preventing Putin from using nuclear weapons, and that is more important than our interest in Ukraine defeating Russia in this war started by Russia. So the order of our preferred outcome, starting from most preferred to least preferred, is as follows: 1) Ukraine compromises with Putin by giving him concessions. 2) Ukraine ends the war by losing it. 3) Ukraine wins the war by defeating Putin.
BaltACD Russians complaining of an attack on a fuel depot near the Ukraine border. I can't imagine how that could happen in a war between the Ukraine and Russia! [/sarcasm] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F45FHLpKtI
Russians complaining of an attack on a fuel depot near the Ukraine border. I can't imagine how that could happen in a war between the Ukraine and Russia! [/sarcasm]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F45FHLpKtI
1) Ukraine compromises with Putin by giving him concessions.
2) Ukraine ends the war by losing it.
3) Ukraine wins the war by defeating Putin.
I've heard other CNN commentators laugh at the notion that Ukraine striking a fuel dump in Russia constitutes escalation but Russia can feel free to bomb whatever it likes. It's disingenuous to take what a couple of CNN people are saying and characterize it as "CNN says..."
CMStPnP I don't get the hesitancy to send more advanced weapons to Ukraine either. We should have sent them harpoon anti-ship missiles, corvettes, more advanced air defense systems as well as artillery battery radar so they can shoot back at Russian artillery when it is firiing. We are just prolonging the suffering by not sending everything we can to assist.
If you send advanced weapons then you have to send personnel to train them on the operation of those advanced weapons - boots on the ground.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Meanwhile, you can't keep good gear down.
(I wonder if Ukraine has some Sturmoviks stashed away somewhere...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDd8NFftuXI
Backshop She appears to not know anything about warfare. It starts with "the best defense is a good offense". You can't be constantly on the defense. Let the Russian people know what war is like where it can't be twisted by Russian media. I have also read that the Russian people have started to rally behind Putin. That could be because they are afraid to say anything. If it's true though, they deserve whatever they get.
She appears to not know anything about warfare. It starts with "the best defense is a good offense". You can't be constantly on the defense. Let the Russian people know what war is like where it can't be twisted by Russian media. I have also read that the Russian people have started to rally behind Putin. That could be because they are afraid to say anything. If it's true though, they deserve whatever they get.
I don't get the hesitancy to send more advanced weapons to Ukraine either. We should have sent them harpoon anti-ship missiles, corvettes, more advanced air defense systems as well as artillery battery radar so they can shoot back at Russian artillery when it is firiing. We are just prolonging the suffering by not sending everything we can to assist.
Shadow the Cats ownerPutting has requested over 135k draftees for this class to be able to replace his losses and also has been pulling his surviving troops back for redeployment. This isn't over yet. He's also demanding full payment in rubles for all of this years natural gas deliveries to Europe due today or he'll shutdown all energy deliveries to Europe.
Actually, that is not going to help him a whole lot. You need experienced troops to lead draftees because the draftees only recieve very rudimentary training and will be cannon fodder without the experienced troops. Remember that Russia does not have an NCO Corps in their Army. So where are the experienced troops going to be drawn from if they have a very serious morale issue in their professional ranks as well? So not sure how effective reinforcements will be....time will tell. It might just tick up the casualty rate more on the Russian side.
Then there is the issue of reinforced equipment. Remember the country is run by a Mafia style government structure with each taking their skim or cut. Allegedly as a result, Russian preposistioned equipment and stockpiles of military equipment is much older models than they have destroyed already and in pretty poor maintenence condition from what Western Military analysts are saying. Seems someone was taking the skim off funding for that area of the Defense budget. So lets see how the reinforcements perform. My take is Ukraine is going to be one of the largest junk yards of Russian Military equipment in a few more months.
BaltACDFirst line got my attention - Ukraine Railways employ 230K people. Roughly double what USA railways currently employ.
Well two points there....
First, US railroads lead the world in productivity and efficiency of frieght operations
Second, Ukraine I think someone said is a large country about the size of France. Plus remember their passenger services are still pretty significant.
Last and slightly off topic, I find it very sad that Russia and it's former client states are all buying European equipment now and have given up on Russian manufacture of most rail passenger cars for intercity corridors. Seems they still buy Russian for long distance in a few cases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m_t3_1vbX8 Well,, if someday the United States would start falling apart and outsiders started lets say sending arms to the new Confederacy what would we do?
People are cheaper than equipment. Why spend big bucks on a piece of machinery when you can pay starvation wages to a bunch of people...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD blue streak 1 Train picture from Ukraine. The people who keep the refugee trains running out of Ukraine – photo essay | Ukraine | The Guardian First line got my attention - Ukraine Railways employ 230K people. Roughly double what USA railways currently employ.
blue streak 1 Train picture from Ukraine. The people who keep the refugee trains running out of Ukraine – photo essay | Ukraine | The Guardian
The people who keep the refugee trains running out of Ukraine – photo essay | Ukraine | The Guardian
First line got my attention - Ukraine Railways employ 230K people. Roughly double what USA railways currently employ.
Balt - Probably more passenger trains and perhaps more "European-length" freight trains would take more personnel to operate. Thanks for any thoughts!
Putting has requested over 135k draftees for this class to be able to replace his losses and also has been pulling his surviving troops back for redeployment. This isn't over yet. He's also demanding full payment in rubles for all of this years natural gas deliveries to Europe due today or he'll shutdown all energy deliveries to Europe.
blue streak 1Train picture from Ukraine. The people who keep the refugee trains running out of Ukraine – photo essay | Ukraine | The Guardian
Train picture from Ukraine.
BaltACD Past Russian military operations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF8RX6y18cg
Past Russian military operations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF8RX6y18cg
That chechen guy really has a mouth on him. He really sounds more like a kid boasting than a battle hardened soldier.
Back on topic. Another article on how the RRs are working in the Ukraine.
54light15In the 1970s I toured Dachau. I was surprised to see that it was in a suburb of Munich and not exactly in the middle of nowhere where people wouldn't see what was going on. School children tour it as well. Probably the most depressing day I've ever had.
It is a chilling experience. Buchenwald is even more depressing. And right in the heart of Munich at one end of Maximiliansplatz is the Platz der Opfer Nationalsozialismus, dedicated in 1946 originally, with an eternal flame to all the NS victims. Similar memorials are found in most cities, along with the brass sidewalk plaques "Stolpersteine" to memorialize victims where they lived.
54light15 Regarding how the Holocaust is memorialised in Germany- I have been all over the country and in every city there are memorials and monuments where synagogues once stood. In Berlin on residential streets are what are called "stumbling stones" and these are paving blocks that are slightly raised above the pavement and are in front of houses where people lived that were "resettled in the East and given special treatment." The names of the former residents are engraved on these blocks. I've seen them; they are all over the residential areas. It really hit home; here's a house and the people that lived there were taken away and murdered. Now, I've never been in a German school but I understand that children are taught about the Holocaust which is more than is done in the rest of the world. In the 1970s I toured Dachau. I was surprised to see that it was in a suburb of Munich and not exactly in the middle of nowhere where people wouldn't see what was going on. School children tour it as well. Probably the most depressing day I've ever had.
Regarding how the Holocaust is memorialised in Germany- I have been all over the country and in every city there are memorials and monuments where synagogues once stood. In Berlin on residential streets are what are called "stumbling stones" and these are paving blocks that are slightly raised above the pavement and are in front of houses where people lived that were "resettled in the East and given special treatment." The names of the former residents are engraved on these blocks. I've seen them; they are all over the residential areas. It really hit home; here's a house and the people that lived there were taken away and murdered. Now, I've never been in a German school but I understand that children are taught about the Holocaust which is more than is done in the rest of the world.
In the 1970s I toured Dachau. I was surprised to see that it was in a suburb of Munich and not exactly in the middle of nowhere where people wouldn't see what was going on. School children tour it as well. Probably the most depressing day I've ever had.
Not to get too far off on a tangent....
The acceptance by Germans of responsibility was a slow process and did not happen right after WWII or with the Nuremburg war trials per se. It was a slow process and there are still Germans (unfortunately) that still refuse to accept that the Germans were ultimately responsible for the government they ended up with as well as the actions of the Nazi's but their number is a lot smaller than it otherwise would be had it not been for the German reconcilation campaign.....
https://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2015/summer/germany-japan-reconciliation/
A similar process will now inevitably have to happen between Russia and Ukraine to set things right again and it will take decades as it did in the case of Germany.
Mr. Otte, I want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to have this thread. For the most part the thread has been informative as we have been able to discuss this significantly historical event for the last 4-5 weeks.
That being said, I only know a few words that are 7 letters long.
Perhaps it is time to return to railroad topics.
But again, thank you for allowing us to, for the most part, have an informative discussion on this historically significant and world-changing event.
BaltACD charlie hebdo CMStPnP charlie hebdo Can you show an example of this? It's in the historical literature they hand out to tourists at Riechstag and Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp as well as the Chronological board at Bergen-Belsen and Riechstag (though now that the Riechstag is an active chamber, who knows if it is still there (probably still there but may have moved it)..........should still be on the chronology board at Bergen Belsen. You know where those are geophraphically located, right? Maybe on your next visit. Yes, I do. What you claim is said about the guilt of all Germans is not in evidence in online pamphlets from Bergen-Belsen, at the Reichstag or Dachau or Buchenwald, the latter three of which I have paid mutiple visits. As usual, you make statements which you cannot back up with hard evidence, then try to worm out of make a snide comment. So says the satirist.
charlie hebdo CMStPnP charlie hebdo Can you show an example of this? It's in the historical literature they hand out to tourists at Riechstag and Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp as well as the Chronological board at Bergen-Belsen and Riechstag (though now that the Riechstag is an active chamber, who knows if it is still there (probably still there but may have moved it)..........should still be on the chronology board at Bergen Belsen. You know where those are geophraphically located, right? Maybe on your next visit. Yes, I do. What you claim is said about the guilt of all Germans is not in evidence in online pamphlets from Bergen-Belsen, at the Reichstag or Dachau or Buchenwald, the latter three of which I have paid mutiple visits. As usual, you make statements which you cannot back up with hard evidence, then try to worm out of make a snide comment.
CMStPnP charlie hebdo Can you show an example of this? It's in the historical literature they hand out to tourists at Riechstag and Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp as well as the Chronological board at Bergen-Belsen and Riechstag (though now that the Riechstag is an active chamber, who knows if it is still there (probably still there but may have moved it)..........should still be on the chronology board at Bergen Belsen. You know where those are geophraphically located, right? Maybe on your next visit.
charlie hebdo Can you show an example of this?
It's in the historical literature they hand out to tourists at Riechstag and Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp as well as the Chronological board at Bergen-Belsen and Riechstag (though now that the Riechstag is an active chamber, who knows if it is still there (probably still there but may have moved it)..........should still be on the chronology board at Bergen Belsen. You know where those are geophraphically located, right? Maybe on your next visit.
Yes, I do. What you claim is said about the guilt of all Germans is not in evidence in online pamphlets from Bergen-Belsen, at the Reichstag or Dachau or Buchenwald, the latter three of which I have paid mutiple visits.
As usual, you make statements which you cannot back up with hard evidence, then try to worm out of make a snide comment.
So says the satirist.
So says the .......
charlie hebdoYes, I do. What you claim is said about the guilt of all Germans is not in evidence in online pamphlets from Bergen-Belsen, at the Reichstag or Dachau or Buchenwald, the latter three of which I have paid mutiple visits. As usual, you make statements which you cannot back up with hard evidence, then try to worm out of make a snide comment.
To be absolutely honest, I think it is how you interpret things. You misinterpreted the Constitution in another thread. I don't have to be a Constitutional Lawyer to point that out. As for a snide comment, I don't see that in my response to you which I thought was respectful. Perhaps you should take a rest from the forums for a while and regain your composure.
Also, your public doubting of other peoples credibility is insulting to multiple posters as you can see from their responses to you. I stated over and over again this is an informal forum. If you constantly demand to see evidence of everything you ruin the experience for others. Its perfectly fine to say you disagree with someone or had another interpretation. It happens.
Same goes for publicly declaring someone an expert or not an expert. It's an internet forum let the other posters decide for themselves, you do not need to be a referee here and in a lot of cases the person posting was not claiming to be an expert but was only claiming specific knowledge. Again an interpretation issue on your part.
Well in at least one respect, perhaps their conquest of Chernobyl was not as clean as I thought. I cannot believe the complete disregard for Russian Soldiers lives the Russian chain of command has. I could possibly understand it with a larger military but with a downsized military this the fast lane to a broken Army....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html
charlie hebdoCan you show an example of this?
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