Almost Like Something Out Of A Western!

[7j43k]

Pretty well said, except for the part about "don't expect the tax payers to fund your security program."

I believe the UP police are NOT funded by the tax-payers. 

But true, the DA and the prisons ARE.

If the expense of the latter part is what bothers you, note that it also applies to shoplifting and other thefts.  If store security catches someone stealing, is it too much to ask that they be prosecuted?  If YOU catch a thief stealing from you backyard storage unit, is it too much to ask that the DA prosecute the thief?

Do we then end up saying stealing is bad, but we won't do anything to you if you do?

 

Ed

[Euclid]

Convicted One

 

 

Flintlock76

Here's the thing.  The primary function of government, any government from the federal level on down is the protection of the lives and property of their citizens

 

 

 

I thought about this quite a bit last night while waiting to doze off,  and the more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with the DA. (I don't expect this POV to be a popular one here on these boards)

BUT, If I was regularly storing millions of dollars in an aluminum or fibreglass  yard storage shed (as I keep my lawnmower in)....if the local hoodlums discovered same and started liberating my riches...I'd be at least partly to blame unless I took proactive measures to better secure my belongings.

Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. THAT is where I'm coming from, so please don't accuse me of blaming the victim exclusively.

The import model we've made ourselves accustomed to has vulnerabilities that have been discovered. Perhaps magified as ever larger trains have to wait staged for just the right slot for departure (blame PSR, LoL?)

 So, until the railroads,  importers, and shipping companies do something to make their modules more secure than a cigar box, I'd say don't expect the tax payers to fund your security program.

 Part of the reason it was so easy to steal jobs from the American worker (outsourcing) is because you had taxpayers paying to dredge harbors, raise bridges and expand tunnels to maximize the profitability of the import racket.  And now you want the taxpayer to additionally foot the bill to protect these crackerboxes? How long are we expected to keep shooting ourselves in the foot?

I say let the people profiteering from the current set up,... pay  to armor these shipping containers into something worthy of their contents, and then pass that expense along to the consumers, and let them then decide if the true cost of doing business that way really is superior to "made locally".

YMMV, but that's where I've ended up.

 

Laws against trespass, theft, and murder for instance, are not suspended in cases where a property owner did not build a fence, or wear a bulletproof vest.  Public sector officials have a duty to enforce the law regardless of what measures to prevent the crime were taken by a crime victim.  You cannot blame the crime victim because they “asked for it.”

[Convicted One]

Flintlock76

Here's the thing.  The primary function of government, any government from the federal level on down is the protection of the lives and property of their citizens

 

I thought about this quite a bit last night while waiting to doze off,  and the more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with the DA. (I don't expect this POV to be a popular one here on these boards)

BUT, If I was regularly storing millions of dollars in an aluminum or fibreglass  yard storage shed (as I keep my lawnmower in)....if the local hoodlums discovered same and started liberating my riches...I'd be at least partly to blame unless I took proactive measures to better secure my belongings.

Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. THAT is where I'm coming from, so please don't accuse me of blaming the victim exclusively.

The import model we've made ourselves accustomed to has vulnerabilities that have been discovered. Perhaps magified as ever larger trains have to wait staged for just the right slot for departure (blame PSR, LoL?)

 So, until the railroads,  importers, and shipping companies do something to make their modules more secure than a cigar box, I'd say don't expect the tax payers to fund your security program.

 Part of the reason it was so easy to steal jobs from the American worker (outsourcing) is because you had taxpayers paying to dredge harbors, raise bridges and expand tunnels to maximize the profitability of the import racket.  And now you want the taxpayer to additionally foot the bill to protect these crackerboxes? How long are we expected to keep shooting ourselves in the foot?

I say let the people profiteering from the current set up,... pay  to armor these shipping containers into something worthy of their contents, and then pass that expense along to the consumers, and let them then decide if the true cost of doing business that way really is superior to "made locally".

YMMV, but that's where I've ended up.

[tree68]

The containers were likely secured.  However, when the perps show up with the tools to defeat that security...

It's too bad that your gazillion inch TV was stolen.  Although your house had burglar bars on all windows and all doors were double locked, your house should have been built with no windows, and all doors should have been quadruple locked... It's not our fault that the burglars showed up with acetylene torches and cut off your burglar bars.

[54light15]

According to him, it's all UPs fault. It's your fault if you left your garage door open and stuff was taken. Why were you in that part of town? You should have locked your car. Why were you wearing that wristwatch? It's all your fault and there's nothing we can do. 

[7j43k]

Here is the letter from Gascon to the UP:

 

https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/Letter-to-Union-Pacific-012122.pdf

 

I look forward to thoughts and comments after reading same.

 

Ed

[7j43k]

7j43k

 

 

Shadow the Cats owner

And of course Newsome backtracked faster than I thought was humanly possible on his tough on crime talk.  He is now saying UP is at fault for all the Thefts.

 

 

 

 

 

I spent some time searching for this subject and couldn't find it.

Could you please provide a link?

 

Ed

 

 

Still looking forward to reading more about this.

A link(s) please?

 

Ed

[blue streak 1]

Can UP ask Governor to install a special proscutor?   Or maybe the US attorney appoint one?

[Euclid]

tree68

 

 

Euclid

...Gason responded that it was not his job to provide security for the U.P.

 

 

It may not be his job to provide security for UP, but he ought to be following through when they do provide their own security.

 

 

I agree. Providing security to the U.P. is not his job.  However, I would not conclude that enforcing the law amounts to providing secuity.  Enforcing the law is his job and that is all U.P. is asking him to do.  Gascon is playing word games.  Clearly he is not going to give U.P. the prosecutions that they seek.  

I have a feeling that this situation will evolve somehow, possibly because of all the publicity it is suddenly receiving.  There may be a big backlash to it that has some unforseen effect.  It may also take on added dimensions of crime.  

[tree68]

Euclid

...Gason responded that it was not his job to provide security for the U.P.

It may not be his job to provide security for UP, but he ought to be following through when they do provide their own security.

 

[Euclid]

I think it is obvious that the AG Gascon does not want to take the blame for his bizarre policy of not prosecuting the container thefts, so he is placing the blame on the U.P.  When U.P. asked him to step up prosecutions in order to discourage the container theft, Gason responded that it was not his job to provide security for the U.P.  I think that is a snarky, unprofessional response that reveals how he views the U.P. as though they are enticing the crimes that will ruin the lives of the young perpetrators should they be prosecuted and have the crimes on their records.  Gascon’s policy seems like some kind of spiteful pay back if you ask me.

[BaltACD]

7j43k

 

Euclid

'According to LAPD Deputy Chief Al Labrada, UP does little to secure or lock trains and has significantly decreased law enforcement staffing,' he wrote. 'It is very telling that other major railroad operations in the area are not facing the same level of theft at their facilities as UP.' 

I wonder how it is that Al is familiar with the staffing levels over time of UP law enforcement.  

Since Al says UP does little to secure or lock trains, I wonder how he knows what they DO do, and what he thinks enough would be; such that he wouldn't say that. 

Ed 

I suspect Al belives each container on UP should have a Shotgun rider like we seen in the goat roping Westerns with stage coaches.

[7j43k]

Euclid

'According to LAPD Deputy Chief Al Labrada, UP does little to secure or lock trains and has significantly decreased law enforcement staffing,' he wrote. 'It is very telling that other major railroad operations in the area are not facing the same level of theft at their facilities as UP.'

 

I wonder how it is that Al is familiar with the staffing levels over time of UP law enforcement.  

Since Al says UP does little to secure or lock trains, I wonder how he knows what they DO do, and what he thinks enough would be; such that he wouldn't say that.

 

Ed 

[Flintlock76]

Convicted One

If ya fill all the prisons up,  then ya gotta build more....

Well, then you build more.

Here's the thing.  The primary function of government, any government from the federal level on down is the protection of the lives and property of their citizens.  Anything else is icing on the cake.

If they fail at the primary function what follows next?  Vigilantism.  And no-one with any sense wants that. 

[Euclid]

Shadow the Cats owner

And of course Newsome backtracked faster than I thought was humanly possible on his tough on crime talk.  He is now saying UP is at fault for all the Thefts.

 

I had not heard that Newsome said that, but District Attorney Gascon said U.P. is at fault for the thefts because they don't secure their containers.  I posted this in the other thread:

The DA says U.P. is not properly locking or securing their trains, as other railroads do. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10430963/Woke-LA-DA-George-Gascon-blames-UNION-PACIFIC-thefts-trains-Newsom-cleanup.html

 

From the link:

 

[District Attorney] Gascón then turned to bashing Union Pacific's own security.

 

'According to LAPD Deputy Chief Al Labrada, UP does little to secure or lock trains and has significantly decreased law enforcement staffing,' he wrote. 'It is very telling that other major railroad operations in the area are not facing the same level of theft at their facilities as UP.'

[7j43k]

Shadow the Cats owner

And of course Newsome backtracked faster than I thought was humanly possible on his tough on crime talk.  He is now saying UP is at fault for all the Thefts.

 

 

I spent some time searching for this subject and couldn't find it.

Could you please provide a link?

 

Ed

[Shadow the Cats owner]

And of course Newsome backtracked faster than I thought was humanly possible on his tough on crime talk.  He is now saying UP is at fault for all the Thefts.

[Electroliner 1935]

54light15

Have prisoners pick up the trash? This comes to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBn5aIfZElE 

As in "COOL HAND LUKE", "What we have here is a failure to communicate"

[Murphy Siding]

Convicted One

. 

.....If ya fill all the prisons up,  then ya gotta build more....

 

Oh, so now you're talking about job creation? 

[Convicted One]

rdamon

Are they seeing the same issue in the trenched lines?  

 

The worst of the problem appeaes to be in the "Lincoln Heights" area. Which is a bit north of the trench. Likely the most vulnerable area... where east bound trains wait for their "slot" to proceed east, but I'm just speculating about that last part

[rdamon]

Can they divert the material and people that have been idled at the border wall? 

Are they seeing the same issue in the trenched lines?

 

[Convicted One]

7j43k

My bit of research turned up some space in the prison system for a few more lucky winners.

I suspect the picture might be a little bigger than  what is at face value.

What is the forecast? Is there a budget of beds needed to be held available for expected new admissions for violent crime? (turnover).

I'm just telling you that I know for a fact that California periodically has to purge non-violent criminals early, to make room for new admissions...I think it happens frequently enough that the beneficiaries even have a special lingo for it....an "early out", or something similar.

So, I'd speculate that being "in that business", the prosecutors are mindful of system dynamics that affect their workflow. I may be giving them too much credit, but I don't think so.

[7j43k]

My bit of research turned up some space in the prison system for a few more lucky winners.

The 13th Amendment specifically DOES allow forced labor for prisoners.

 

Ed

[Convicted One]

7j43k

I just looked it up, and it does appear there is room for some more guests.

I wonder if Gunderson is still offering the "shackles" option on those tri-levels? 

[Convicted One]

Flintlock76

  But with the above and your other posts it seems you're looking for reasons to do nothing.

FWIW, I didn't interpret his fatalism as a personal desire to do nothing. I thnik he is just making a wistful poke at the price tag of an effective solution.

It's one thing to say "get tough on crime", but who wants to pay the pricetag?

We could get into a convoluted discussion about budget priority, and the things that government authority prefers to spend it's available resources on vs what the public thinks their money deserves to be spent on...but that would not conform to the central theme of these message boards. So I'll just say that I believe there are conflicted priorities fueling some of the "mystery" we seem to be painting  here. 

If ya fill all the prisons up,  then ya gotta build more....

[Flintlock76]

BaltACD

If there is room - is there enough budget?  You don't put people in prison for free.

Balt, I love 'ya man, and I always enjoy and learn from your posts.  But with the above and your other posts it seems you're looking for reasons to do nothing.

Something  has to be done about this.  It's an old maxim that if you ignore, rationalize, explain away, sympathize with, or in a backhanded way reward  irresponsible or illegal behavior all you do is buy yourself more of it. That's the way it's always been and always will be. 

Just a thought.  Can some of the shortages we're seeing on supermarket and other shelves in retail establishments be traced back to this?  Who knows how many goods aren't getting to market because they're lying trashed on the right-of-way?

[54light15]

Have prisoners pick up the trash? This comes to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBn5aIfZElE 

[BaltACD]

diningcar

Prisoners of this type could be put to work. Like picking up trash from streets and roadways. In fair weather locations they could be housed in tents (see Phoenix, AZ a few years ago) as an example. 

So make slave of prisoners.  Locations that don't have funds to house prisoners also don't have funds to supervise them outside of the prison enviornment.

[diningcar]

Prisoners of this type could be put to work. Like picking up trash from streets and roadways. In fair weather locations they could be housed in tents (see Phoenix, AZ a few years ago) as an example. 

[BaltACD]

7j43k

 

BaltACD

Presuming they get prosecuted and convicted for prison time - is there sufficient prison capacity to hold them? 

I just looked it up, and it does appear there is room for some more guests. 

 

Ed

If there is room - is there enough budget?  You don't put people in prison for free.