The Union Pacific Police ride again! Look out, "Butch" and "Sundance!"
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/fairness-justice/legendary-union-pacific-railroad-police-arrive-in-the-wild-west-to-quell-train-robberies
Wonder if the old SP modified police train cars are still around?
U.P. has said that if they cannot resolve this issue, they will pull their operations out of the affected area. What exactly would that entail?
It appears railroad police MIGHT be able to enforce some federal laws. If the suspects are arrested for violating them, I expect they'd go through the federal system, not the local one.
Ed
I know that in another thread, it devolved into such a mess it was deleted.
Without saying anything political, here is a quote from the article that shows why this is such a problem:
“Criminals are caught and arrested … charges are reduced to a misdemeanor or petty offense, and the criminal is released after paying a nominal fine,” the company said in a letter dated Dec. 20, 2021. “These individuals are generally caught and released back onto the streets in less than twenty-four hours.” “Criminals boast to our officers that charges will be pled down to simple trespassing — which bears no serious consequence,” Union Pacific wrote. “Without any judicial deterrence or consequence, it is no surprise that over the past year UP has witnessed the significant increase in criminal rail theft described above.”
“Criminals are caught and arrested … charges are reduced to a misdemeanor or petty offense, and the criminal is released after paying a nominal fine,” the company said in a letter dated Dec. 20, 2021. “These individuals are generally caught and released back onto the streets in less than twenty-four hours.”
“Criminals boast to our officers that charges will be pled down to simple trespassing — which bears no serious consequence,” Union Pacific wrote. “Without any judicial deterrence or consequence, it is no surprise that over the past year UP has witnessed the significant increase in criminal rail theft described above.”
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
Extending my previous post, if any federal laws appear to be being broken (interstate commerce, and all), the FBI could spend some time there. And again, the arrestees would come before a federal court.
Couldn't the containers have a heavy-duty combination lock of some kind rather than a flimsy car seal? Maybe I'm naive about this but there must be a way. Each container has it's related documents that would be emailed, right? And couldn't the combination (or whatever) go along with the document to the receiver?
A federal court may just be the answer.
At any rate, and I'm not trying to be political here, considering the last discussion I figured one picture was worth 1,000 words.
Euclid U.P. has said that if they cannot resolve this issue, they will pull their operations out of the affected area. What exactly would that entail?
Certainly more supply chain disruptions until the "kinks" are worked out.
UPS uses a combination of bolt seals their called that as they require bolt cutters to remove them and case hardened padlocks. Yet if you watch the video you'll see even their containers and trailers are getting broken into. Short of using titanium for the locks these thieves have the ability to get into anything they want in a hurry. What needs to be done is start hammering these gangs under the RICO statue. The only thing that will stop these widespread theft rings is throwing them in prison and not allowing criminals to get away with crimes.
Flintlock76 Euclid U.P. has said that if they cannot resolve this issue, they will pull their operations out of the affected area. What exactly would that entail? Certainly more supply chain disruptions until the "kinks" are worked out.
What I am asking is, what would have to be done in order to find a different routing for these trains, as U.P. has suggested may be their solution to the problem? Do they have alternate lines that are far away from this current hot spot? Would they have to modify alternate route lines?
The most practical solution would seem to be to have enough police on site to continually arrest trespassers and take them to the DA. They may have to repeat that every day, but at least it would prevent the looting.
Shadow the Cats owner The only thing that will stop these widespread theft rings is throwing them in prison and not allowing criminals to get away with crimes.
Very true for those cases where a container of a given item is targeted, but I suspect that what's going on in LA is more of a "smash and grab" thing, with many of the participants simply "hangers on," in it for the thrill or the possibility of acquiring something of value.
As one article pointed out, one item found discarded in the debris was an urn with someone's ashes.
Essentially, it's looting.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Euclid What I am asking is, what would have to be done in order to find a different routing for these trains, as U.P. has suggested may be their solution to the problem? Do they have alternate lines that are far away from this current hot spot? Would they have to modify alternate route lines?
I don't have the proper rail map of LA to answer that, but I did find a news item saying that UP was considering moving some/all of their intermodal operation out of LA County.
That can be done by moving this up to Oakland.
7j43kI don't have the proper rail map of LA to answer that, but I did find a news item saying that UP was considering moving some/all of their intermodal operation out of LA County. That can be done by moving this up to Oakland.
Sadly, a move to Oakland would just mean the problem moves, too.
EuclidWhat I am asking is, what would have to be done in order to find a different routing for these trains, as U.P. has suggested may be their solution to the problem? Do they have alternate lines that are far away from this current hot spot? Would they have to modify alternate route lines?
Start with a big tunnel boring machine and extend the Alameda "trench" into the inland empire.
York1 Sadly, a move to Oakland would just mean the problem moves, too.
Definitely true, been there, bad neighborhood.
Think that the locals are trying to gentrify the area by moving the ball park there and then surrounding that with commercial.
Convicted One York1 Sadly, a move to Oakland would just mean the problem moves, too. Definitely true, been there, bad neighborhood. Think that the locals are trying to gentrify the area by moving the ball park there and then surrounding that with commercial.
UP already transports containers in and out of Oakland. Have either of you any information on container looting there?
7j43kUP already transports containers in and out of Oakland.
Lived in the East Bay for three years, commerical real estate was my vocation, warehousing. And I spent serious time canvassing the industrial bowels of Oakland seeking customers. That whole 12th street/San Leandro street/blvd corridor is no better a neighborhood than the one currently supporting the pillaging in LA.
I may be a tad biased, since I was beat unconscious and robbed there.
Convicted One 7j43k UP already transports containers in and out of Oakland. Lived in the East Bay for three years, commerical real estate was my vocation, warehousing. And I spent serious time canvassing the industrial bowels of Oakland seeking customers. That whole 12th street/San Leandro street/blvd corridor is no better a neighborhood than the one currently supporting the pillaging in LA. I may be a tad biased, since I was beat unconscious and robbed there.
7j43k UP already transports containers in and out of Oakland.
Quite possibly.
I've lived in Oakland over 50 years, and have not been. I also worked several years for the Port of Oakland, so I'm somewhat familar with container intermodal.
As far as I've heard, there's been no container looting here, so I was asking about it.
Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it sure hasn't made my "news feeds".
I've also got a sure-enough failsafe way to stop the container looting, at a fairly low cost, certainly cheaper than paying police wages, prison guard wages......
You provide door locking on the inside, and it's "activated" from the bottom of the container. One version is a steel rod slid vertically from underneath, through hasps on the inside of the main door. The steel rod can only be installed and removed from underneath. Which is incredibly difficult to do with a container loaded on a well car. But NOT if you can arrange clearance underneath.
7j43kDoesn't mean it doesn't happen
i don't see any move to oakland as being an escape to a "safer" environment. Seems like just more of the same to me.
This goes a number of years back, but I thought that volumes through the port of Oakland were in decline in favor of Long Beach? Seemed like I remember there was excess capacity in Oakland and that being explained that Southern California was "stealing" that business?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding Euclid U.P. has said that if they cannot resolve this issue, they will pull their operations out of the affected area. What exactly would that entail? To be cynical, I don't think it would entail much of anything. I seriously doubt that UP would spend the gazillion dollars it would take to move their operations. They are simply using that threat to get the local authorities excited about helping to fix the current situation.
To be cynical, I don't think it would entail much of anything. I seriously doubt that UP would spend the gazillion dollars it would take to move their operations. They are simply using that threat to get the local authorities excited about helping to fix the current situation.
A lot of those dist centers are moving farther East, to the Palm Springs area or West Phoenix.
Convicted OneI may be a tad biased, since I was beat unconscious and robbed there.
She wasn't beaten unconscious, but former US Senator Barbara Boxer was mugged in Oakland several weeks ago.
It could be as simple as keeping the trains through there moving fast enough that they are hard to board. Stopping one there would be suicide, theft-wise.
Perhaps shorter trains that can be brought up to speed more quickly.
Or not...
azrailA lot of those dist centers are moving farther East, to the Palm Springs area or West Phoenix.
To better access a undocumented worker base?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Backshop Murphy Siding Euclid U.P. has said that if they cannot resolve this issue, they will pull their operations out of the affected area. What exactly would that entail? To be cynical, I don't think it would entail much of anything. I seriously doubt that UP would spend the gazillion dollars it would take to move their operations. They are simply using that threat to get the local authorities excited about helping to fix the current situation. I agree. UP isn't going anywhere. Not only do they have too much infrastructure in LA, but so do all their customers. Flying into LAX, all you see mile after mile in the Inland Empire, are distribution centers.
I agree. UP isn't going anywhere. Not only do they have too much infrastructure in LA, but so do all their customers. Flying into LAX, all you see mile after mile in the Inland Empire, are distribution centers.
I too doubt that U.P. will move, but it was they that said they are considering it. I was just wondering what such a move would acually consist of. I guess they are the only ones who can answer the question. It will be interesting to see how this drama unfolds as things move forward. With all the high value goods walking out of there, I wonder if that could attract secondary robbery.
UP moving SOME of their traffic from LA to Oakland is cheap and simple. The boxes are unloaded in Oakland instead of LA.
This assumes there is unused capacity at Oakland. Whether there is right now I have no way to find out. What WOULD take time and money would be to increase capacity beyond what's available now.
I am sure ALL of it could not be transferred, though.
There are three major port locations on the US west coast: LA/Long Beach, Oakland, and Seattle/Tacoma.
The reason LA gets a lot of traffic is because a lot of it is LA bound (none of that, however, is on these stack trains). The reason Seattle/Tacoma gets perhaps more than its share is because it provides a shorter shipping route. Oakland has neither of these advantages.
One thing Oakland has is a very short transit between the docks and the container rail loading area--less than a mile, using streets mostly bare of non-port traffic. There are two routes out of town, one north along the Bay over to Sacramento and east, or south to use either the old WP line going east or the old SP line south towards LA.
I don't know much about the present Port management, but back when I was there, it was pretty quick acting and customer friendly.
Backshop I agree. UP isn't going anywhere. Not only do they have too much infrastructure in LA, but so do all their customers. Flying into LAX, all you see mile after mile in the Inland Empire, are distribution centers.
Most of the boxes going to those distribution centers do not travel on UP. They go by truck from the dock.
Most of the containers on those stack trains are going east.
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