PNWRMNM The idiot sock puppet needs something to distract people from son Hunter's $500,000 paintings. There is much more to fear from big government than from the railroads and steamship lines. Mac
The idiot sock puppet needs something to distract people from son Hunter's $500,000 paintings.
There is much more to fear from big government than from the railroads and steamship lines.
Mac
BackshopHe's not a government official, unlike some who have been accused or charged for working for other governments.
Of course I expect this all to start "coming to light" about a year from now, in time for the first Harris administration to start safely after Jan 24 2023... but not long after that date.
Now back to railroading of the actual sort!
I see nothing 'awful' here -- the issues of equity and fairness for all shippers being a major 'incentive' for past regulation, and reciprocal-switching rights even if artificially controlled being far less intrusive than the arrogant misregulation of the bloated post-1920 ICC. I don't think the sky is falling and an evil 'leftist-socialist cabal' sees this as the camel's nose to the happy world of soak-the-railroads that was played in not-so-recent but still-vivid memory.
That said: something the Biden and Harris administrations are going to need, badly, in a couple of years will be strong corporations and enough rich of the 'wrong' sort to soak for all the programs they'd like to run, and PSR railroads and their 'principals' are an increasingly attractive target... and to be honest I'm coming not to see that as a bad thing.
The likely problem as I see it is the same as in the Eastman years: the people making the stranded-fair-shipping-rate policies are more likely to be lawyers than logistics people. And to think that Procrustean solutions (like Tier 4 final as applied to locomotive engines) are the expedient way to achieve what they want.
Why is it that the right wingers/Trumpers on here think their highly political and often offensive posts are just fine but they go running to the moderator as soon as someone progressive responds?
charlie hebdoWhy is it that the right wingers/Trumpers on here think their highly political and often offensive posts are just fine but they go running to the moderator as soon as someone progressive responds?
PNWRMNM The idiot sock puppet needs something to distract people from son Hunter's $500,000 paintings. Mac
charlie hebdo Why is it that the right wingers/Trumpers on here think their highly political and often offensive posts are just fine but they go running to the moderator as soon as someone progressive responds?
Let's have some civil discourse in this conversation..These two comments above me are why threads get locked... I'm asking you all to refrain from personal political attacks and name calling. How you feel about the political arena is obviously your choice, and we are not going to agree with certain actions by the government. We're discussing why the govt. need not get involved in rates as it does not have OPEX (operation expenses) to make the judgement on how rates should be set in the free market.. Please stay on the subject..
SD60MAC9500 PNWRMNM The idiot sock puppet needs something to distract people from son Hunter's $500,000 paintings. Mac charlie hebdo Why is it that the right wingers/Trumpers on here think their highly political and often offensive posts are just fine but they go running to the moderator as soon as someone progressive responds? Let's have some civil discourse in this conversation..This above me is why threads get locked... I'd like people to refrain from personal political attacks and name calling. How you feel about the political arena is obviously your choice, and we are not going to agree with certain actions by the government. We're discussing why the govt. need not get involved in rates as it does not have OPEX (operation expenses) to make the judgement on how rates should be set in the free market.. Stay on the subject..
Let's have some civil discourse in this conversation..This above me is why threads get locked... I'd like people to refrain from personal political attacks and name calling. How you feel about the political arena is obviously your choice, and we are not going to agree with certain actions by the government. We're discussing why the govt. need not get involved in rates as it does not have OPEX (operation expenses) to make the judgement on how rates should be set in the free market.. Stay on the subject..
Exactly my point, illustrated in spades by the rightist above with his pejorative.
I see we cross-posted. Amended accordingly. As you have quoted the original for reference, I have no hesitation in removing the 'personal' from the post in question.
I look forward to further reading your opinions on the actual topic of civil railroad-related discourse.
Overmod charlie hebdo Why is it that the right wingers/Trumpers on here think their highly political and often offensive posts are just fine but they go running to the moderator as soon as someone progressive responds? As long as the progressives stick to facts they'll have little to fear from me, at least. Certainly no one intellectually honest can accuse me of being a 'Trumper' for a New York millisecond, and I haven't been able to stomach most of the right wing for decades (most prominently after they flubbed the post-1994 Congressional possibilities, but in sme respects well before that, and from about 2014 on, increasingly so). On the other hand, I know propaganda when I see it, from any side, and I am very familiar with the usual ridicule-the-straw-man's-politics tactic. It is beneath someone of your intellectual standing and accomplishments to perpetrate it. Whether we like it or not, this is an explicitly political topic, and it may be an indication of priorities to be applied to the freight railroad industry. I do not think President Biden is nearly as pro-freight-railroading as he is pro-passenger, and (as I think I said) I am not averse to his using public policy to deal with some... more rather than less... of the distortions caused by abuse of the idea of "PSR". That is the focus that I think we should concentrate on, or at least take up seriously, in this sort of thread going forward.
As long as the progressives stick to facts they'll have little to fear from me, at least. Certainly no one intellectually honest can accuse me of being a 'Trumper' for a New York millisecond, and I haven't been able to stomach most of the right wing for decades (most prominently after they flubbed the post-1994 Congressional possibilities, but in sme respects well before that, and from about 2014 on, increasingly so).
On the other hand, I know propaganda when I see it, from any side, and I am very familiar with the usual ridicule-the-straw-man's-politics tactic. It is beneath someone of your intellectual standing and accomplishments to perpetrate it.
Whether we like it or not, this is an explicitly political topic, and it may be an indication of priorities to be applied to the freight railroad industry. I do not think President Biden is nearly as pro-freight-railroading as he is pro-passenger, and (as I think I said) I am not averse to his using public policy to deal with some... more rather than less... of the distortions caused by abuse of the idea of "PSR". That is the focus that I think we should concentrate on, or at least take up seriously, in this sort of thread going forward.
You are attacking me for my post? Straw man? Apparently you have no clue what you are talking about. Several posters on the right (I was not specifically referring to you, but you think "the song is about you, don't you?") made blatantly political remarks. I commented that typically it seems they think that is just fine but if a progressive has the temerity to challenge these "revealed truths" an adequate hominem attack follows. That is exactly what you have done.
Regulation issues should not be political as it is really about economics. Capitalism and mixed economies seem to work better, more efficiently with competition and the avoidance of centralized control, whether from DC or Wall Street and s few board rooms. Lacking that, regulation can at least partially substitute.
charlie hebdo SD60MAC9500 PNWRMNM The idiot sock puppet needs something to distract people from son Hunter's $500,000 paintings. Mac charlie hebdo Why is it that the right wingers/Trumpers on here think their highly political and often offensive posts are just fine but they go running to the moderator as soon as someone progressive responds? Let's have some civil discourse in this conversation..This above me is why threads get locked... I'd like people to refrain from personal political attacks and name calling. How you feel about the political arena is obviously your choice, and we are not going to agree with certain actions by the government. We're discussing why the govt. need not get involved in rates as it does not have OPEX (operation expenses) to make the judgement on how rates should be set in the free market.. Stay on the subject.. Exactly my point, illustrated in spades by the rightist above with his pejorative.
Charlie you're inlcuded in my last comment. I was speaking specifically to your and Mac's comment.. Stop it!
You make my point. Double standard. I said nothing offensive but you lump me in the same pocket as MAC who used political insults. Very different.
I realize that progressives are a minority on here, partly because of the double standard and many have chosen to depart and let the rightists prevail in at least this one pipsqueak arena as a majority.
charlie hebdoRegulation issues should not be political as it is really about economics.
Capitalism and mixed economies seem to work better, more efficiently with competition and the avoidance of centralized control, whether from DC or Wall Street and s few board rooms.
Lacking that, regulation can at least partially substitute.
But I would argue that it be objective, non-ideological, and to the greatest extent possible Pareto-optimal.
(And that it address 'getting things done' for the industry as a functioning part of the economy, not assuring the greatest nominal fiduciary-responsibility return to the 'shareholders' of stakeholders who "matter".
Is there a need for an executive order to increase competition and combat aggressive pricing by co-called “monopoly railroads”? What can a shipper accomplish by challenging inflated rates? What is an inflated rate? What is a monopoly railroad?
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/562032-biden-to-issue-executive-order-on-consolidation-in-railroads-ocean
What Hunter S. Thompson said about 'that sickening here-we-go feeling'...
EuclidIs there a need for an executive order to increase competition and combat aggressive pricing by co-called “monopoly railroads”?
It's an initial shot; I think it's the lowest-hanging fruit to be 'proactive' about if he intends to change some of the ways the freight-railroad industry does things. (I expect it will not be the last, but that's not material to the present discussion...)
What can a shipper accomplish by challenging inflated rates?
What is an inflated rate?
"Inflated" is a charge above that, solely due to uncompetitive factors. Biden and many others consider single-access customers to often suffer this.
One of the concerns does represent the stranded cost of what may be expensive 'premise access' or the opportunity costs associating with allowing another railroad to execute reciprocal switching. Just as with other considerations of infrastructure, those things may be in some cases objectively very large. But that to me is something that can be objectively discussed as part of determination of a fair policy, or even included in an executive order as a factor.
What is a monopoly railroad?
I doubt the executive order does much beyond send a strong message to the STB and FMC. These two agencies are, after all, the ones actually responsible for keeping an eye on railroads and maritime interests.
CW
Personally, I don't believe there is any question that the government err'ed in allowing some of the anti-competitive mergers of the past. So, it's not unreasonable to expect their "participation" in moderating against abuse by some of the monsters that rose under their watch.
Not completely dissimilar to way the electric utilities that dominate their territories have been forced to enjoy their monoplolies "under supervision".
When that high barrier to entry begins to work against the general good of the republic, guidance is often necessary (IMO) to keep the overly enthusiastic in check.
Juniata ManI doubt the executive order does much beyond send a strong message to the STB and FMC
I found the link provided by the O.P. to be especially illuminating in that regard.
Overmod Of course I expect this all to start "coming to light" about a year from now, in time for the first Harris administration to start safely after Jan 24 2023... but not long after that date.
I also find it laughable when someone says "let's get back to railroading" while they use that same post to make one more political comment.
Convicted OneI found the link provided by the O.P. to be especially illuminating in that regard.
Where I'd start looking as of the official issuance of this executive order is the likely influence, going forward, on the KCS-CN approval...
I'm not a big proponent of government. But at the same time, I believe that very little happens for no reason.
The railroads have no qualms about using a big stick, when one is available to them. Who else is there to respond in like-kind fashion?
OvermodSee what Wilner say
Bingo! That was my point.
Regarding that "big stick":...I'm forced to remember the "blocked crossings" debates, where several here enthusiastically pointed out that the RR's are subordinate only to federal jurisdiction, not state.
"Can you hear me now?"
BackshopThe presidential term of office is only two years now? How interesting...
A Vice-President taking office less than two years from the end of a term does not have that 'count' toward the two-term restriction. So a presumptive Harris administration could run 10 years rather than be limited to eight.
What will be amusing is the timing to ease President Biden out just by that point -- not before, and probably not too much after.
Personally, I find it laughable that someone who to date has contributed nothing remotely railroad-related to this discussion thinks they have the standing to criticize... but that doesn't matter either.
Overmod Backshop The presidential term of office is only two years now? How interesting... More interesting than you think. A Vice-President taking office less than two years from the end of a term does not have that 'count' toward the two-term restriction. So a presumptive Harris administration could run 10 years rather than he limited to eight. What will be amusing is the timing to ease President Biden out just by that point -- not before, and probably not too much after. Personally, I find it laughable that someone who to date has contributed nothing remotely railroad-related to this discussion thinks they have the standing to criticize... but that doesn't matter either.
Backshop The presidential term of office is only two years now? How interesting...
More interesting than you think.
A Vice-President taking office less than two years from the end of a term does not have that 'count' toward the two-term restriction. So a presumptive Harris administration could run 10 years rather than he limited to eight.
BackshopI see that you're a disciple of QAnon.
Frankly, I like Harris and wouldn't mind seeing her have more than two statutory terms. I'm just upset at the presumptive machination -- hopefully it will not develop according to "plan".
Convicted One I'm not a big proponent of government. But at the same time, I believe that very little happens for no reason. The railroads have no qualms about using a big stick, when one is available to them. Who else is there to respond in like-kind fashion?
Same can be said for government.. I would prefer a freer "invisible hand" that is guided by supply and demand market forces over the "father knows best" mechanism that is the hallmark of every command economy. We're not so far off... CN and KCS are patiently awaiting the decision of the STB on whether their merger proposal will go ahead or not. Its up to five people to decide that.. they can give the thumbs up or the thumbs down. That's alot of power vested in five people..
First a $10B defense contract to Microsoft cancelled and now this. Hmmm to the benefit of AZNU?
Ulrich. I would prefer a freer "invisible hand" that is guided by supply and demand market forces over the "father knows best" mechanism
Would you consider the way CSX butchered the former B&O Illinois Sub,.. or "hemmed in" the western end of the former PRR.... to be "supply and demand" driven? I wouldn't. Seems like they were more intent upon making sure the line would never pose any potential to compete with them, ever.
Convicted One Ulrich . I would prefer a freer "invisible hand" that is guided by supply and demand market forces over the "father knows best" mechanism Would you consider the way CSX butchered the former B&O Illinois Sub,.. or "hemmed in" the western end of the former PRR.... to be "supply and demand" driven? I wouldn't. Seems like they were more intent upon making sure the line would never pose any potential to compete with them, ever.
Ulrich . I would prefer a freer "invisible hand" that is guided by supply and demand market forces over the "father knows best" mechanism
Absolutely. but I never said it works perfectly. People are at the heart of all decisions, whether they're command economy driven or driven by market forces. I'm free to make good and bad decisions, and I'm free to reap the rewards and penalties of both. Free market does not mean all decisions are good all of the time..
Overmod Backshop I see that you're a disciple of QAnon. If you see that, you need better corrective lenses. Frankly, I like Harris and wouldn't mind seeing her have more than two statutory terms. I'm just upset at the presumptive machination -- hopefully it will not develop according to "plan".
Backshop I see that you're a disciple of QAnon.
If you see that, you need better corrective lenses.
Ulrich Convicted One Ulrich . I would prefer a freer "invisible hand" that is guided by supply and demand market forces over the "father knows best" mechanism Would you consider the way CSX butchered the former B&O Illinois Sub,.. or "hemmed in" the western end of the former PRR.... to be "supply and demand" driven? I wouldn't. Seems like they were more intent upon making sure the line would never pose any potential to compete with them, ever. Absolutely. but I never said it works perfectly. People are at the heart of all decisions, whether they're command economy driven or driven by market forces. I'm free to make good and bad decisions, and I'm free to reap the rewards and penalties of both. Free market does not mean all decisions are good all of the time..
Considering the economic power of the players in today's 'free market' most of the 'decisions' that are getting made are intended to monopolize and single source whatever is the product or service and therefore put the users at the mercy of the providers.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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