Post-WWII all-Budd New England States came close to the 20th Century and Super Chief in service.
But while the pre-1948 heavyweight was all-Pullman, the 1948 Budds includrd coaches.
They were unique in that instead of 85 foot cars, they were only 80 foot ones when they were built in 1936 and 1937.
Just to add because of their parabolic ends, the two windsplitters from the Oneida Railway, the electrified West Shore Utica-Syracuse with underruning third rail. Retired in 1930.
Learned something new. More familiar with the two on the ill fated Denver Laramie & Northwestern.After the railroad failed, the "Denver" & "Greeley" McKeens went off to UP.
Sounds like most did not have much of a service life. Now DC has created a vision in my head of a wind splitter out in the Southern Colorado beet sugar fields limping to the Swink bridge over the Arkansas trying to get into the shops in La Junta before conking-out...(at least one of the four ATSF had)
54light15 That McKeen definitely has a steam punk look. Very cool! I assume some are still around?
That McKeen definitely has a steam punk look. Very cool! I assume some are still around?
A young fellow in Ramona, CA is working on restoring a McKeen car that worked the San Diego to Santee line of the SD&AE, originally the San Diego Cuyamaca & Eastern which was planned to pss through the southern end of Ramona.
The McKeen car at the Nevada RR Museum was bought by the V&T and retired around the end of WW2 and converte into a diner. Lucius Beebe was pleased to note that the original diner went bankrupt, followed by several other diner using that car subsequently going bankrupt as well. It eventually became part of Al's Plumbing Shop, where the McKeen body was on the south side and another railcar body on the north side.
Overmod daveklepper And I agree the Century with Dreyfuss J3a is comparable. Wouldn't the Empire State Express be much more comparable, on styling grounds? Of course were NYC to run a stainless train as a counterpart to the Super Chiefs, with comparable decor and amenities...
daveklepper And I agree the Century with Dreyfuss J3a is comparable.
Wouldn't the Empire State Express be much more comparable, on styling grounds?
Of course were NYC to run a stainless train as a counterpart to the Super Chiefs, with comparable decor and amenities...
Being launched Dec. 7, 1941 the Empire State Express had its 'thunder' stolen by another incident that happened that day.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
daveklepperAnd I agree the Century with Dreyfuss J3a is comparable.
There's a completely restored McKeen railcar at the Nevada State Railroad Museum. With the exception of a new CAT diesel engine it's as close as you can come to total originality, and "Steampunk" indeed! It's like something out of a Jules Verne novel!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HYECpTcLyU
I think there's one, maybe two more out there undergoing restoration but I'm not sure on that, or where they are.
Lightweight Budd equipment, including the very first Budd non-articulated sleeping cars. soon including the very first roomette cars. replaced the Super Chief heavyweight equipment about the same time as the AT&SF's first E-units arrived. Then, Super became a streamliner, retaining the fast schedule and superb service.
And I agree the Century with Dryfuss J3a is comparable. But streamlining the Super actually came earlier.
A McKeen somehow found its way onto the roster of the mighty Carthage and Copenhagen in northern NY. The line was all of eight miles...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
MC, a McKeen operated on the Ark Valley Dist. ( also known as 2nd Dist.) of the Colorado Division. There are photos in the Bent County Hist. Society archives.
The McKeens picked-up the name "wind-splitter" somewhere in all of this for their knife-edged front end and a few of them had trailers of a similar design. Their gasoline/distillate engines were their weak point.
Denver Public Library Collection.
mudchicken Erik_Mag I would add the Brill Bullets and the early UP streamliners. McKeen Motor Cars
Erik_Mag I would add the Brill Bullets and the early UP streamliners.
I would add the Brill Bullets and the early UP streamliners.
McKeen Motor Cars
A note of interest on this Thread, in regards to the McKeen Motor Cars...
THe McKeen Motor Cars could well have been 'children' f the Union Pacific Railroad. McKeen was a Chief Mechanical OLfficer of the UPRR. The orignal 'plant/ was located in the area of OMAHA, Ne. (on UPRR property?). They were manufactured there, from about 1905 until 1915; The last two units turned out were shipped in about, 1915. They were supposedly, assembled from the last of the factory's remaiing parts inventory(?)
There were two cars built and delivered in, about 1903 (?) to the AT&SF RR. #100 g. They were delived to the (then) Eastern Div. of the AT&SF. To be assigned to operate on the branches that radiated out of the Div. point at Chanute,Ks.
The first car operated from Pittsburg,Ks (on The KCP&G RR (nee:KCS RR) to Frontenac,Ks and then west to Erie,Ks.Shaw<Ks and Chanute.Ks.) The route was run daily, and was known to not only carry the passengers, but to occasinally, perated with a freight car, as a mixed train(?)
The Eastern Branch of the AT&SF was inteesting, as there were a couple of petroleum refineries on the route: a Kerosene[refinery] producer at Shaw, and at Erie; The Great Western Refinery, a fairly large operation with a small yard, and a fleet of over 100 railcars for moving its production.
The area around Frontenac,Ks. was an origin, for a low-grade ,locomotive coal; for several railroads crossing the Weir-Pittsburg Coal Deposits.
P.S. Seems that The 'Streamliner' that seems to have 'escaped' mention in this Thread is the Pullman-Standard -built (1940(?): Illinois Central (namesake?) The Green Diamond, a daily, (Round Trip) Chicago-St.Louis Streamliner on the ;order of the UPRR's M-10000 of about the same vinage and make.
The 49er? Never heard of it before now, interesting to say the least. But as a long time fan of the NYC, the 1938 20th Century with the Dreyfus hudson is as classic as a Duesenberg Model SJ. Connecting in Chicago with the Super Chief, naturally. And then, maybe a Boeing 314 to Hawaii.
Oh people, good people, HOW could you have all overlooked Union Pacific's legendary "Forty-Niner?"
https://www.steamlocomotive.com/types/streamlined/up2906-uprr.jpg
Yes, the beloved and never-to-be forgotten "Slug!"
Certainly not forgotten by model makers!
https://mthtrains.com/railking/spotlight/04_2017/a
I haven't found one yet, but one day I will!
daveklepperIf you mean the best, not the most unique anymore, and only pre-WWII, then the Super Chief by far.
If you mean the best, not the most unique anymore, and only pre-WWII, then the Super Chief by far.
Post WWII, California Zephyr. Lots of other contenders, admittadly.
I'll opine that the Rock Island Rockets were as good as they got.
Frisco was notable for its rebuildings; the Firefly is good adaptive reuse of a relatively old engine to be effective.
Most of the major Frisco trains at the time the Firefly was introduced were night trains, appropriately timed and not needing to be fast. The day trains ran local and were correspondingly poky. The Firefly was a day train that could run!
Apparently only 3 cars long, rebuilt from heavyweights (but very attractively rebuilt and styled!) at a time the Frisco was in receivership, which only adds to its appeal both in how it was 'bought and paid for' and in what was implied with track and operations to make the high speed possible.
samfp1943A train {steam Hauled] that seem to be 'flying under the radar' is the Frisco's [SL-SF'RR] 'The Firefly' . Ran fro 1940 to 1960, between Kansas City, Mo.,Ft. Scott ,Ks. , Neosho,Mo., Tulsa,Ok., and Oklahoma City. It was a 'day light run.
The Frisco's Firefly was definitely an underrated streamliner. The streamlining of those Pacifics was unique and standout, the front end of them reminds me of dolphins. The livery of the three-car consist was like a combination of B&O's streamliner and PRR's Fleet of Modernism color scheme. I especially love the coaches of the Firefly; every row of the seat had its own window, which means passengers no need to share a curtain with the others.
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
A train {steam Hauled] that seem to be 'flying under the radar' is the Frisco's [SL-SF'RR] 'The Firefly' . Ran fro 1940 to 1960, between Kansas City, Mo.,Ft. Scott ,Ks. , Neosho,Mo., Tulsa,Ok., and Oklahoma City. It was a 'day light run.
The Frisco used some 1910 built Baldwin Pacifics [4-6-2], shopped thenm at their Springfield Mo shops and increased the driviong wheel dia to 73". They created a streanlined effect by adding 'bullet-shaped boiler farings, stack, painted the locos cars blue aand gray with 'special lettering' on the engines. The consists were a baggage-mai with seating/ a coach, and a cafe-parlor car. The cars were refurnished heavyweight equipment. The Frisco had three sets, to prect the schedule. The Firefly operated daily between 1940 and 1960,
here is a inked set of photos of the engines.
@ https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/streamline1.cfm
Jones1945 Former Car Maintainer My choices would be...The New Haven Comet, The GM&O Rebel, The New Haven Besler Blue Goose, The Pioneer Zephyr, The Electroliner.... I love these streamliners you listed. I would add MILW Hiawatha, NYCRR Mercury, 20th Century Limited, and Empire State Express (designed and built prewar) to the list. My favorite one wasn't unique and original though.
Former Car Maintainer My choices would be...The New Haven Comet, The GM&O Rebel, The New Haven Besler Blue Goose, The Pioneer Zephyr, The Electroliner....
My choices would be...The New Haven Comet, The GM&O Rebel, The New Haven Besler Blue Goose, The Pioneer Zephyr, The Electroliner....
I love these streamliners you listed. I would add MILW Hiawatha, NYCRR Mercury, 20th Century Limited, and Empire State Express (designed and built prewar) to the list. My favorite one wasn't unique and original though.
One more to add (how could I forget!), Southern Pacific Coast Daylight hauling by GS-2, GS-3. I think the front-end streamlining design of the GS Class was unique and original.
I really like the C&NW's "Minnesota 400" introduced in 1941 with streamlined yellow-and-green Pacifics.
Best pic link I could find (and access) shows one of engines in later service with non-streamlined equipment.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3835496
Interestingly enough, Southern had its streamlined engine before N&W built streamlined locomotives -- see Miller's book on the class J. It would be interesting to see what effect the Kuhler design might have had on Noel's proposed treatments for the J between November 1940 and the first models N&W made for display in May 1941 -- it's infuriating to me that Miller doesn't state whether the Tennessean's show tour came before or after N&W's model display that month.
Js in the flesh didn't steam until August (apparently not fully streamlined at that point) and didn't start service until late October, so there was a gap where the passenger Ks were doing the business. I understand N&W's initial response was to start painting the name large and proud across the tender in the meantime. I do wonder if some fun was had with high-speed timekeeping with the overkill of a class A assigned to these trains; they certainly worked heavier services on the Bristol line...
B.S.1: In 1941 the Southern Rwy commissioned a 'bullet nosed' Streamlined steam model #1380 (Class was PS-4 (?), and was designed by the afore mentoned, Otto Kuhler) It was built in Richmond Va. by ALCO Wrks. It was colored originaly, in 'Virginia Green' with Gold trim.. Later replaced with Suthern's 'Apple Green' schemes. #1380 [pulled the Southern's "Tennessean" between Washington,D.C and Monroe, Va. where it was interlined to the Norfolk & Western's which assigned its J Class streamined engines. Wt lest untile the route was dieselized. #1380 retained its streamlining til it was retired lout in early 1950's.
Don't forget interurbans. And certainly the PCC streetcar, probably in actual fact the most successful of prewar streemliners in terms of numbers sold. The P&W and JF&G (later Bamburger) Brill "Bullets" did use a wind-tunnel tested design, one of the first to employ that technology for a rail vehicle.
But Conway went to a far less streamlined design with the C&LE Red Devils, and Indiana RR pretty much copied that design for the High Speed. and both were electrically and mechanically a further development of the rather conventional Brill's propulsion equipment.
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