My choices would be...The New Haven Comet, The GM&O Rebel, The New Haven Besler Blue Goose, The Pioneer Zephyr, The Electroliner....
I would add the Brill Bullets and the early UP streamliners.
Do we count the Michelines and the Silver Slipper (and the Prospectors or Motorailers) as 'streamliners'? Or that original 'inspiration' for non-cheap motor trains, the Bluebird?
There is always the 'anti-streamliner' -- the train of conventional equipment that runs with streamliner performance. The original Super Chief and C&NW 400s qualify here, I think.
We need to mention the A-powered Hiawathas and the mid-Thirties B&O lightweight consists (like the one that went with boxcar 50 to the Alton, IIRC)
The Rockets with TAs were notable but as with the Delta Eagle were representative of postwar general practice... like the Budd consists of the first two purpose-built Super Chief sets...
The original Milkwaukee Hiawatha with the unique boat tail observation car.
Originality goes to the "Pioneer Zephyr", which combined streamlining, stainless steel construction and diesel-electric power into one train.
Erik_Mag I would add the Brill Bullets and the early UP streamliners.
caldreamerThe original Milkwaukee Hiawatha with the unique boat tail observation car.
Have never heard it referred to as 'boat tail' .... Beaver Tail is what I have always heard.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I'd go with the Pioneer Zephyr. I've always liked it's squinty, sort of wrinkled looking face. There really wasn't anything like it before, was there? I wonder if anyone makes it in N scale? And here it is accompanied by George Gershwin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHe0YSciQao
mudchicken Erik_Mag I would add the Brill Bullets and the early UP streamliners. McKeen Motor Cars
McKeen Motor Cars
The original question was pre-war, not steampunk... OTOH, the CGW "Blue Bird" was a circa 1929 attempt at a streamlined train.
One fond memory was a family trip to Carson City in 1970 entering town from the south and immediately recognizing a McKeen car body being used as part of a building. This brought back memories of seeing what looked like a school bus body on the other side of the same building, to later find out it was another railcar.
Overmod Do we count the Michelines and the Silver Slipper (and the Prospectors or Motorailers) as 'streamliners'? Or that original 'inspiration' for non-cheap motor trains, the Bluebird?
some of those were deemed windsplitters including the McKeen...
The streamliner definition might apply if an aeronautical engineer and wind tunnel testing was involved in its design...some will disagree...
54light15 I'd go with the Pioneer Zephyr. I've always liked it's squinty, sort of wrinkled looking face. There really wasn't anything like it before, was there? I wonder if anyone makes it in N scale? And here it is accompanied by George Gershwin: I'd have to go along with the Zephyr. I saw the Mark Twain Zephyr when it was housed at Bloomington, Illinois for a short while in the 1980's or 90's on its' way to Wisconsin. It was in a derilict enough state to see the construction details. It was a truly lightweight welded train body, from what I could see of it, and still had a futuristic tinge to it. I should see if I can dig up the pictures I took, if the negatives are still in good order. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHe0YSciQao
I'd have to go along with the Zephyr. I saw the Mark Twain Zephyr when it was housed at Bloomington, Illinois for a short while in the 1980's or 90's on its' way to Wisconsin. It was in a derilict enough state to see the construction details. It was a truly lightweight welded train body, from what I could see of it, and still had a futuristic tinge to it. I should see if I can dig up the pictures I took, if the negatives are still in good order.
I wonder if BNSF could match that performance today.
Gramp I wonder if BNSF could match that performance today.
How 'bout a challenge to Warren and Charlie? PR for Berkshire Hathaway. They could watch at Omaha (right at Uncle Pete's front door).
Reading's Crusader, while not the most strikingly unique, had an original idea for it's consist: obs-coach-cafe-coach-obs. No turning at Jersey City or Rdg Terminal Philly for it's twice daily round trips. Only the engine was turned at Communipaw and Green Street. The locomotive tender had a concave rear end to provide a nearly seamless look with the consist.
Rick
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
Mention ought to be made of perhaps the most portentous (and least-known) of the prewar equipment, something that still looks futuristic today: the original Pendulum Cars.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pendulum_railroad_coach_1937.jpg
Invented by a railroad scion, prototyped out of bent plywood presaging the Mosquito, this presaged the principle of some early lightweight trains, finally the Cripe/Sikorsky/UA TurboTrain that was the final hurrah of the original streamliner-motor-train idea.
(There was commercialization of regular cars, on a different wacky system involving long wibbley secondary springs that allowed running in consist with normal cars, that actually saw service on ATSF and the Burlington, but those did not take off meaningfully; ironically Burlington's would wind up as a motor-train trailer.)
No photos but did SOU RR hace a couple of semi streamlined motor cars ?
So far it's all been about motor-powered trains. What about steam powered? the Dreyfus Hudson? Hiawathas? The various locomotives designed by Raymond Loewy? There are so many.
54light15 So far it's all been about motor-powered trains. What about steam powered? the Dreyfus Hudson? Hiawathas? The various locomotives designed by Raymond Loewy? There are so many.
The Budd Besler was mentioned...anything prewar, that was designed by an aeronautical engineer and wind tunnel tested...
54light15 What about steam powered?
B&O, I think, expected to run the constant-torque on substantially the same sort of service they were already geared up for: not-very-convincingly skirted and diaphragmed consists that surely got the job done at 85mph but were not 'streamliners' in the exotic sense.
Now something that ought to have been highly interesting was the experimentation by the IH people with steam engines in Electro-Motive style doodlebug cars, just a couple of years before the M10000 research got under way. It would have been very simple to streamline those, and put higher-quality trucks underneath, and in fact to use the steam generator and motor arrangements in a lightweight, probably articulated unit that could also pull trailers... but the Depression, or something else contemporary, killed the effort off almost without trace.
Don't forget interurbans. And certainly the PCC streetcar, probably in actual fact the most successful of prewar streemliners in terms of numbers sold. The P&W and JF&G (later Bamburger) Brill "Bullets" did use a wind-tunnel tested design, one of the first to employ that technology for a rail vehicle.
But Conway went to a far less streamlined design with the C&LE Red Devils, and Indiana RR pretty much copied that design for the High Speed. and both were electrically and mechanically a further development of the rather conventional Brill's propulsion equipment.
Former Car Maintainer My choices would be...The New Haven Comet, The GM&O Rebel, The New Haven Besler Blue Goose, The Pioneer Zephyr, The Electroliner....
I love these streamliners you listed. I would add MILW Hiawatha, NYCRR Mercury, 20th Century Limited, and Empire State Express (designed and built prewar) to the list. My favorite one wasn't unique and original though.
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
B.S.1: In 1941 the Southern Rwy commissioned a 'bullet nosed' Streamlined steam model #1380 (Class was PS-4 (?), and was designed by the afore mentoned, Otto Kuhler) It was built in Richmond Va. by ALCO Wrks. It was colored originaly, in 'Virginia Green' with Gold trim.. Later replaced with Suthern's 'Apple Green' schemes. #1380 [pulled the Southern's "Tennessean" between Washington,D.C and Monroe, Va. where it was interlined to the Norfolk & Western's which assigned its J Class streamined engines. Wt lest untile the route was dieselized. #1380 retained its streamlining til it was retired lout in early 1950's.
Interestingly enough, Southern had its streamlined engine before N&W built streamlined locomotives -- see Miller's book on the class J. It would be interesting to see what effect the Kuhler design might have had on Noel's proposed treatments for the J between November 1940 and the first models N&W made for display in May 1941 -- it's infuriating to me that Miller doesn't state whether the Tennessean's show tour came before or after N&W's model display that month.
Js in the flesh didn't steam until August (apparently not fully streamlined at that point) and didn't start service until late October, so there was a gap where the passenger Ks were doing the business. I understand N&W's initial response was to start painting the name large and proud across the tender in the meantime. I do wonder if some fun was had with high-speed timekeeping with the overkill of a class A assigned to these trains; they certainly worked heavier services on the Bristol line...
I really like the C&NW's "Minnesota 400" introduced in 1941 with streamlined yellow-and-green Pacifics.
Best pic link I could find (and access) shows one of engines in later service with non-streamlined equipment.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3835496
Jones1945 Former Car Maintainer My choices would be...The New Haven Comet, The GM&O Rebel, The New Haven Besler Blue Goose, The Pioneer Zephyr, The Electroliner.... I love these streamliners you listed. I would add MILW Hiawatha, NYCRR Mercury, 20th Century Limited, and Empire State Express (designed and built prewar) to the list. My favorite one wasn't unique and original though.
One more to add (how could I forget!), Southern Pacific Coast Daylight hauling by GS-2, GS-3. I think the front-end streamlining design of the GS Class was unique and original.
A train {steam Hauled] that seem to be 'flying under the radar' is the Frisco's [SL-SF'RR] 'The Firefly' . Ran fro 1940 to 1960, between Kansas City, Mo.,Ft. Scott ,Ks. , Neosho,Mo., Tulsa,Ok., and Oklahoma City. It was a 'day light run.
The Frisco used some 1910 built Baldwin Pacifics [4-6-2], shopped thenm at their Springfield Mo shops and increased the driviong wheel dia to 73". They created a streanlined effect by adding 'bullet-shaped boiler farings, stack, painted the locos cars blue aand gray with 'special lettering' on the engines. The consists were a baggage-mai with seating/ a coach, and a cafe-parlor car. The cars were refurnished heavyweight equipment. The Frisco had three sets, to prect the schedule. The Firefly operated daily between 1940 and 1960,
here is a inked set of photos of the engines.
@ https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/streamline1.cfm
samfp1943A train {steam Hauled] that seem to be 'flying under the radar' is the Frisco's [SL-SF'RR] 'The Firefly' . Ran fro 1940 to 1960, between Kansas City, Mo.,Ft. Scott ,Ks. , Neosho,Mo., Tulsa,Ok., and Oklahoma City. It was a 'day light run.
The Frisco's Firefly was definitely an underrated streamliner. The streamlining of those Pacifics was unique and standout, the front end of them reminds me of dolphins. The livery of the three-car consist was like a combination of B&O's streamliner and PRR's Fleet of Modernism color scheme. I especially love the coaches of the Firefly; every row of the seat had its own window, which means passengers no need to share a curtain with the others.
Frisco was notable for its rebuildings; the Firefly is good adaptive reuse of a relatively old engine to be effective.
Most of the major Frisco trains at the time the Firefly was introduced were night trains, appropriately timed and not needing to be fast. The day trains ran local and were correspondingly poky. The Firefly was a day train that could run!
Apparently only 3 cars long, rebuilt from heavyweights (but very attractively rebuilt and styled!) at a time the Frisco was in receivership, which only adds to its appeal both in how it was 'bought and paid for' and in what was implied with track and operations to make the high speed possible.
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