Murphy SidingThat could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well?
Not being a ship expert or an engineer, I'll venture a guess that once one part hit the bank and stopped, the huge forward motion force would drive the rest of the ship sideways, swinging it around to the opposite side. Of course, knowing me, I'm sure I'm completely wrong.
York1 John
Given reports that the ship was having problems with it's steering gear before entering the canal, it's possible that the wind started things by pushing the ship (which presented a large "sail area), then the steering gear wasn't up to the job.
The momentum idea does deserve consideration.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Given reports that the ship was having problems with it's steering gear before entering the canal, it's possible that the wind started things by pushing the ship (which presented a large "sail area), then the steering gear wasn't up to the job. The momentum idea does deserve consideration.
It's being reported that Ever Given suffered a power failure that essentially handicapped the vessel losing its propulsion and steering capability. This makes sense as it allows the current and wind to swing the vessel and ground it into the banks of the canal. They might not have no other choice than to somehow offload some containers from the vessel.
York1 Murphy Siding That could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well? Not being a ship expert or an engineer, I'll venture a guess that once one part hit the bank and stopped, the huge forward motion force would drive the rest of the ship sideways, swinging it around to the opposite side. Of course, knowing me, I'm sure I'm completely wrong.
Murphy Siding That could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well?
Reports that I viewed said the wind blew the stern onto the West Bank of the canal - the bow just pivoted along the center of pressure. Report also stated that all this took place in a sand storm that obscured visibility. The vessel was Northbound through the canal.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
One prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side.
This detail has been announced:
"The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship."
[I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ? Someone here may know a link to ship fans that may know more ? A Satellite images of back ups.
Satellite imagery shows work underway to free ship Ever Given in the Suez Canal (msn.com)
EuclidOne prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side. This detail has been announced: "The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship." [I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
SMIT is recognized world wide for their vessel salvage abilities. There are numerous YouTube videos of their salvage efforts on a variety of casualties.
Euclid One prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side. This detail has been announced: "The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship." [I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
in Europe they place periods in numbers where in the US we place commas
blue streak 1Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ?
There are some markings on the bow I do not recognize - they don't resemble those I see on ships I see on the Seaway for bow thrusters. The Wiki for the ship, however, notes that it has two bow thrusters, but no stern thrusters.
Been sort of losely following this story on the [ModelIntermodal web site]. And some of the 'speculation' ,here as well... The tonage involved with the grunded vessel, the Ever Given in the Suez, is I think,is listed at abt 422,000 (tons) Gross Wt (?).
Recall the grounding and capsizing of the passenger ship, Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?); new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) .
Salvage to get it refloated, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions(3x value of vessel when new). Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
A couple of things will probably be true in this case of the Ever Given, It will take opre time than expected, will cost owner's(?) majpr bucks, and give employment to a lot of lawyers for a long time.
samfp1943Been srt f loselyh following tosstoryu on the [ModelIntermodal web site] And some of the 'speculation' here as well... The tonage involved with the grunded vessel in the Suez is. I think,is listed at abt 422,000 (tons) Gross Wt (?). ecall the grounding and ca;psikzing of the ;passenger ship Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?) new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) . Salvage ro get floating, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions. Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
ecall the grounding and ca;psikzing of the ;passenger ship Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?) new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) .
Salvage ro get floating, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions. Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
Don't believe the groundings of the two vessels mentioned are in anyway analogous. Costa Concordia's Captian was making a 'joy ride' pass of the off course area where the vessel grounded.
Reports I have previously seen list the Ever Given at 224K tons. I doubt that the Suez Canal pilots were having the vessel 'joy ride'.
As if the Suez Canal situation isn't bad enough for Egypt.
Railroad issues -
https://news.yahoo.com/trains-collide-southern-egypt-killing-120818092.html
So first train stopped suddenly and second ran into it ? No signal system ? definitely no PTC! case of following too closely ?
More probable half hearted attempts to free ship ?
Plan made to refloat ship blocking Suez Canal using tide (msn.com)
blue streak 1More probable half hearted attempts to free ship ? Plan made to refloat ship blocking Suez Canal using tide (msn.com)
When working in tidal waters - no refloating attempts of a vessel can be undertaken without the assists provided by high tide. Some tides are higher than others.
The article seems to indicate that the finger pointing for cause is well underway as there was allegation of mechanical failure and that is now being refuted - let the games begin.
Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
charlie hebdoContainers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades.
The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe.
Will it take a 'worm' to refloat the Ever Given?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/03/26/full-worm-moon-rise-sunday-evening-but-supermoon/6999775002/
Worm Moon that is.
My understanding is that the shipping lane through the canal is much narrower than the canal waterway. So the ship is not merely stuck by having each end jammed horizontally into the waterway banks, as one might assume looking at the photos.
What actually happened was the ship being rotated so its bow and stern rode up onto the shallower bottom extending out some considerable distance from the waterway side walls. So it is not jammed side to side in the canal. In is grounded on the shallow bottom of the canal within maybe 50-75 feet of each end of the ship. So the ship is somewhat suspended like a bridge.
When the ship lost control, it was still completely afloat, so there is no reason why its mid-section is not still afloat. But a portion of its total weight has been shifted from buoyancy support in the mid-section to solid sand bottom support near each end of the ship. That would mean that there is open water from one side of the ship to the other under the mid-section.
Having the ship suspended like bridge is putting abnormal stress on the hull. Such stress could cause the ship to break in two near the mid-section. The article does mention the risk of structural damage to the ship from being unevenly supported as it is.
Once the sand is removed under each end of the ship, it will be properly afloat, but it will still not be able to be rotated to align with the canal route. Even after the sand is removed from under each end of the ship, those ends will be sitting in “notches” cut into the sand bottom. The sides of notches will prevent the ship from being rotated into alignment with the canal. So what would then be required is to dredge out a lot more sand on one side of one notch to allow the ship rotate completely out of the notch while withdrawing from the opposite end notch.
A vision from an aircraft perspective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLFmojnXtk0
Here is satellite view of container ship. This is just speculation but the way the bow is more impaled on the east side it apears that the wind that pushed the bow was a quartering headwind from the NW. Otherwise the stern might have been pushed into the east bank ?
The way winds work it might have been a sudden gust from different direction of the prevailing wind. Happens often when flyng into airports in strong winds.
Latest satellite images show efforts to free the giant container ship, Ever Given, stuck in Suez Canal (msn.com)
Personally, I think there was a tail-wind slightly from right to left.
The ship was turned slightly, either due to a stronger wind near the back of the ship (that is a long boat!), or as they initially claimed, the ship lost steering. Anyway, the rear slipping to the left pointed the front of the ship into the right bank where it ran aground and stopped. The tailwind now was pushing the ship sideways and that ran the rear of the ship onto the left bank.
If it had not hit the left bank it would have done a full 180 in the channel, pivoting on the front in the right bank.
They will have to lighten the rear of the ship to pull it sideways off the bank and then continue pulling backward to get the front loose and the ship straight in the channel.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper VaporoPersonally, I think there was a tail-wind slightly from right to left. The ship was turned slightly, either due to a stronger wind near the back of the ship (that is a long boat!), or as they initially claimed, the ship lost steering. Anyway, the rear slipping to the left pointed the front of the ship into the right bank where it ran aground and stopped. The tailwind now was pushing the ship sideways and that ran the rear of the ship onto the left bank. If it had not hit the left bank it would have done a full 180 in the channel, pivoting on the front in the right bank. They will have to lighten the rear of the ship to pull it sideways off the bank and then continue pulling backward to get the front loose and the ship straight in the channel.
Reports are that the wind was sustained at over 40 kt with higher gusts. Considering that from the water line to the top level of the containers is 140 feet all along the 1300 foot length, make the vessel a 182k square foot sail. Given the wind velocity and the 'sail area' - Mother Nature's will be done, on Earth.
BaltACD charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports. My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades. The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe.
charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
All true, but very little impact on US railroads' intermodal trains.
Balt ACD, the reportage by the fat 'important' swaggering man
When I first saw this guy I wondered how much you can believe of what he says, he is the type of bragging and tampering thing together to make a hit of it. Then comes the point: The suez canal is "about 20 meters deep" this reporter says, the graphic shown at the same time reads 15,7 meters. He makes typical moves like looking up at 5:52 and repeatedly further on that people make when they are insecure .. Not very trustworthy man this one. I cannot believe he knows much about aviation. Well that's just from my observation of his behaviour.
As for the ship I would say it was hit sideways by the storm and with its own speed then ran into the bank mainly with the right part of the bow, this sudden stop turned the ship to the left with its free hulk and the rear got stuck into the other bank.
If the water level of the canal is not subject to tide and is the same as when it happened there should be very little font and aft lift if any because the ends of the ship went into the banks straight level and not way up. Taking off cargo would lift the ship but how would they debark cargo there? Digging out the ends of the ship would appear best to me.
But as commerce is, the pressure to reopen the canal may become so strong that they might decide to cut it up just to get the canal free the sooner.
SARA 05003
charlie hebdo BaltACD charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports. My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades. The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe. All true, but very little impact on US railroads' intermodal trains.
Except for the flotilla of ships along the West Coast of the USA that are waiting to be docked and unloaded - with at least a portion of the containers unloaded being hauled from the coast by rail. Reportedly it will take 4 to 6 months to work the backlog of ships to the point of the ports being 'fluid'.
Sara T Balt ACD, the reportage by the fat 'important' swaggering man When I first saw this guy I wondered how much you can believe of what he says, he is the type of bragging and tampering thing together to make a hit of it. Then comes the point: The suez canal is "about 20 meters deep" this reporter says, the graphic shown at the same time reads 15,7 meters. He makes typical moves like looking up at 5:52 and repeatedly further on that people make when they are insecure .. Not very trustworthy man this one. I cannot believe he knows much about aviation. Well that's just from my observation of his behaviour. As for the ship I would say it was hit sideways by the storm and with its own speed then ran into the bank mainly with the right part of the bow, this sudden stop turned the ship to the left with its free hulk and the rear got stuck into the other bank. If the water level of the canal is not subject to tide and is the same as when it happened there should be very little font and aft lift if any because the ends of the ship went into the banks straight level and not way up. Taking off cargo would lift the ship but how would they debark cargo there? Digging out the ends of the ship would appear best to me. But as commerce is, the pressure to reopen the canal may become so strong that they might decide to cut it up just to get the canal free the sooner. SARA 05003
The man is a cargo airline pilot and his normal area of reportage and expertise is in things aircraft. Both aircraft and watercraft have to deal with fluid dynamics - on one the fluid is air, on the other the fluid is water. Mix 182K square feet of 'sail' space with a 40+ knot sustained winds and you have the Ever Given. Mother Nature overpowers the human created machine.
The canal is a tidal body of water and the salvors are making their 'best efforts' during high tides. There is a Full Moon this weekend and the tides should be a little bit higher. Whether the salvors will have success is open to question.
Balt ACD
That may well be, but still he fills the classics of a man not trustworthy, that I can tell. Do you know what good a pilot he is?
>>Mix 182K square feet of 'sail' space with a 40+ knot sustained winds and you have the Ever Given.<<
That's very much what I wrote: the Ever Given ever given to the wind to scratch the bank. It seems to me they have arrived at the same misproportioning of size and maneuverablity as with the Titanic. Now they have these side thrusters but their thrust is too small. Well if it was larger it would cause upheval in a harbor when used.
>>The canal is a tidal body <<
Outch!
Does an illconceived name make itself noticed here? they say the ship had a misfortune in the Elbe at Hamburg in 2019 .. Ever Given to misfortune? I hope not!
Sara 05003
blue streak 1 Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ? Someone here may know a link to ship fans that may know more ? A Satellite images of back ups. Satellite imagery shows work underway to free ship Ever Given in the Suez Canal (msn.com)
If you're talking about bow thrusters. Yes Ever Given has them but they are of no use in its position.
SD60MAC9500Yes Ever Given has bow thrusters but they are of no use in its position
Given the situation, I suspect they were less than effective for dealing with the crosswind.
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