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FAST freight trains

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FAST freight trains
Posted by Lithonia Operator on Thursday, February 11, 2021 10:40 PM

Where would I find America's fastest freights? Once Covid is under control, we'd like to take a trip out west. Is there someplace I can see 79 mph (isn't that the max allowed?) freight trains, hopefully a line with lots of traffic?

Still in training.


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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Friday, February 12, 2021 12:50 AM
 

You're best bet is BNSF's Southern Transcon. Needles Sub, Seligman Sub, Gallup Sub just to name a few. 70MPH Freights with Heavy traffic. If you want some of the best scenery BNSF's Seligman sub would be the best in my opinion. The Seligman sub runs between Needles, CA, and Winslow, AZ.

If UP is your fancy the Sunset Route between Colton, CA, and El Paso, TX host 70MPH Z trains as well. Though not as busy as BNSF but plenty of traffic to keep you on your toes.

Short story. Back in 2006 I was heading to Calexico,CA and decided to hop on Interstate 8 south of Phoenix. UP's Sunset Route and I-8 Follow eachother from Gila Bend, AZ to Yuma, AZ. Sometime down the road I was approaching Mohawk Pass and noticed a UP Z-train climbing the pass. I caught up to him
at the summit. Not too long after he was running right with me doing every bit of 75MPH.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by narig01 on Friday, February 12, 2021 2:56 AM

UP from Grand Island, Nebraska to Green River, Wyoming.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Friday, February 12, 2021 5:07 AM

Thanks.

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Posted by diningcar on Friday, February 12, 2021 7:59 AM

You're best bet is BNSF's Southern Transcon. Needles Sub, Seligman Sub, Gallup Sub just to name a few. 70MPH Freights with Heavy traffic. If you want some of the best scenery BNSF's Seligman sub would be the best in my opinion. The Seligman sub runs between Needles, CA, and Winslow, AZ.

I-40 between Gallup and west of Winslow is adjacent to BNSF in many locations. I have driven at just under 80 MPH (legal speed limit) and have been able (just) to pass some of the BNSF Z trains.

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Posted by timz on Friday, February 12, 2021 10:15 AM

Doubt that any RR authorizes freights to do more than 70 mph. Isn't that the freight limit for Class 5 track? (Guess that limit started after Super C, which was allowed 79.)

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Posted by bogie_engineer on Friday, February 12, 2021 10:30 AM

timz

Doubt that any RR authorizes freights to do more than 70 mph. Isn't that the freight limit for Class 5 track? (Guess that limit started after Super C, which was allowed 79.)

 

FRA 213.9 limit for Class 5 freight is 80, Class 4 60 mph.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, February 12, 2021 12:07 PM

bogie_engineer
FRA 213.9 limit for Class 5 freight is 80, Class 4 60 mph.

As a link that will also be useful for those following the WMSR thread:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/part-213/subpart-A

We're sure to get some besserwisser saying that number ought to be "79mph" and it is important to recognize why the figure Mr. Goding gave is correct.

The Esch Act language for train control, which was preserved in the 1947 order and still applies today, specified maximum speed slightly differently from part 213.  Their language pertains to '80 and over'; 213's inherently to '80 and below'.  

The 1mph difference is not particularly material other than that it defines where serious Federal penalties may apply -- which is certainly enough for me to respect it.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, February 12, 2021 2:01 PM

The Santa Fe side of BNSF is probably the only railroad that still powers freight trains well enough to maintain speeds like that without a gravity assist.  

Interestingly, I've noticed that the pulling power of AC traction units really drops off once you get above 50 mph, DC units of equivalent horsepower seem to do better at very high speeds.  

AC dynamic braking is far better at all speeds.  

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, February 12, 2021 3:14 PM

BNSF Chillicothe sub (not quite out west but getting there).. whoa! Hold on to your hat and stand well back..  

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, February 12, 2021 7:35 PM

The UP's old CNW line still has a few Zs that still have enough power, or less train, to run 70.  I've seen that number a time or two when the stars lined up just right.

A few months ago, for about a week they had a 69 mph temporary speed restriction on a spot about a 1/4 of a mile long.  Maximum speed there is 70 mph.  I have no idea why the 69 temporary.  It was in a space where most 70 mph trains wouldn't be doing 70 anyway.  It was about in the middle of a 4 mile stretch between a permanent 60 mph and a permanent 40 mph.

Jeff 

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Posted by blhanel on Friday, February 12, 2021 9:15 PM

jeffhergert

The UP's old CNW line still has a few Zs that still have enough power, or less train, to run 70.  I've seen that number a time or two when the stars lined up just right.

A year or so ago my grandson and I paced a westbound stacker from Mechanicsville to Cedar Rapids that was doing 67.  Good thing there weren't any Iowa Troopers around, and light traffic on US 30...

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Friday, February 12, 2021 10:28 PM
 

SD70Dude

The Santa Fe side of BNSF is probably the only railroad that still powers freight trains well enough to maintain speeds like that without a gravity assist.  

If you've ever seen the operating profile of the Southern Transcon from Fort Sumner, NM to San Bernardino, CA. They have no other option if they want to maintain a 70MPH railroad where feasible.

 
 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by diningcar on Saturday, February 13, 2021 8:02 AM

 

 

 

 

 
SD70Dude

The Santa Fe side of BNSF is probably the only railroad that still powers freight trains well enough to maintain speeds like that without a gravity assist.  

 

 

If you've ever seen the operating profile of the Southern Transcon from Fort Sumner, NM to San Bernardino, CA. They have no other option if they want to maintain a 70MPH railroad were feasible.

 
 
 

[/quote]

SD60MAC9500
If you've ever seen the operating profile of the Southern Transcon from Fort Sumner, NM to San Bernardino, CA. They have no other option if they want to maintain a 70MPH railroad were feasible.  
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Posted by diningcar on Saturday, February 13, 2021 8:19 AM

SD60MAC, there are locations between the sites you mention where the two tracks have been separated to aleviate the grade issues about which you allude. And the recently built flyover at Truxton, AZ allows trains to change tracks for a favorable grade without the need to utilize 50 MPH switch crossovers, some of which have been in place for 60 years to address grade and passenger train issues.

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Posted by caldreamer on Saturday, February 13, 2021 8:19 AM

What is the track class for the northeast corridor trains where Amtrack trains do 125 MPH?

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Posted by bogie_engineer on Saturday, February 13, 2021 9:54 AM

caldreamer

What is the track class for the northeast corridor trains where Amtrack trains do 125 MPH?

 

FRA 213.307 shows Class 6 is required for 110 mph, class 7 for up to 125, class 8 for 160 and class 9 for 200.

You can see all the track standards in this document; it may not be the latest but the first to come up in google search: 

https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/2020-08/2008_Track_Safety_Standards%20%281%29.pdf

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Posted by MMLDelete on Saturday, February 13, 2021 1:03 PM

Ulrich

BNSF Chillicothe sub (not quite out west but getting there).. whoa! Hold on to your hat and stand well back..  

 

Im now considering a trip to Chicago in June, and want to rent a car and go see some of that action

If you have some suggestions for train-watching spots, I'd love to hear them. Also, any notable RR buildings and infrastructure worth seeing along the entire sub. Or just unique settings the route might pass through, even if something prevents a good photo there.

Thanks in advance.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, February 13, 2021 1:28 PM

Let's light that download up, shall we?

https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/2020-08/2008_Track_Safety_Standards%20%281%29.pdf

Strangely, the link to eCFR I provided no longer shows the 'addendum' to 49CFR213 that shows the higher-track-speed classes... only a tedious 'back' and 'next' that would take seemingly forever to step to it.  If you Google "49 CFR 213" it will give you several alternatives that show the whole index, and you can get the higher speeds from that.

As here: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title49/49cfr213_main_02.tpl

The high-speed stuff is in subpart G, starting at 213.301.

Again, 125 and not "124" is the highest permitted speed in that class.

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Posted by blhanel on Sunday, February 14, 2021 1:05 PM

Lithonia Operator

Im now considering a trip to Chicago in June, and want to rent a car and go see some of that action

If you have some suggestions for train-watching spots, I'd love to hear them. Also, any notable RR buildings and infrastructure worth seeing along the entire sub. Or just unique settings the route might pass through, even if something prevents a good photo there.

Thanks in advance.

 

Check out VRF's Fort Madison, IA webcam.  They don't go through there very fast, but the action's almost non-stop.  Also very picturesque.

EDIT: Although almost exclusively BNSF, you'll also see a few trackage-rights UP trains go through there, as well as numerous examples of borrowed power.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, February 14, 2021 1:48 PM

Don't forget Rochelle - it's only about an hour and a half west of Chicago.  

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Posted by Ulrich on Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:18 PM

Lithonia Operator

 

 
Ulrich

BNSF Chillicothe sub (not quite out west but getting there).. whoa! Hold on to your hat and stand well back..  

 

 

 

Im now considering a trip to Chicago in June, and want to rent a car and go see some of that action

If you have some suggestions for train-watching spots, I'd love to hear them. Also, any notable RR buildings and infrastructure worth seeing along the entire sub. Or just unique settings the route might pass through, even if something prevents a good photo there.

Thanks in advance.

 

Chillicothe, IL.. I went to Peoria, IL back in the fall of 2014 for a couple of days on business. Rented a car and drove up to Chillicothe in the evening.. very busy with lots of very fast intermodal and TOFC trains. Volumes have only gone up since then, so I doubt you'd be disappointed. As for other sites, I can't really say.. I was only in the area for a couple of days.. in and out.. meetings, plant tour, and one evening to myself and then back home. 

 

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Posted by MMLDelete on Sunday, February 14, 2021 6:00 PM

Thanks, Ulrich.

Were there any manifest trains?

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, February 15, 2021 12:17 PM

Lithonia Operator

Thanks, Ulrich.

Were there any manifest trains?

 

 

Yes, some manifest trains too as I recall..But not near as many as the intermodal. But either which many..very busy. I got there..parked my car near trackside and didn't have to wait more than ten minutes for the train parade to begin. Was sorry to leave but I had to catch a flight back.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, February 15, 2021 12:52 PM

Ulrich

 

 
Lithonia Operator

Thanks, Ulrich.

Were there any manifest trains?

 

 

 

 

Yes, some manifest trains too as I recall..But not near as many as the intermodal. But either which many..very busy. I got there..parked my car near trackside and didn't have to wait more than ten minutes for the train parade to begin. Was sorry to leave but I had to catch a flight back.

 

Thanks! Sounds great.

If Covid has been beaten back enough by June, we're going to take the trip I described over in the Passenger forum and spend some time there, and also find some UP trains to photograph.

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, February 15, 2021 2:31 PM

Same here..once this covid stuff is behind us I might just head back there myself.. this time with no time limitation. Sure seemed like a nice area..likely alot of other stuff to see as well. 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 10:22 AM
 

diningcar

SD60MAC, there are locations between the sites you mention where the two tracks have been separated to aleviate the grade issues about which you allude. And the recently built flyover at Truxton, AZ allows trains to change tracks for a favorable grade without the need to utilize 50 MPH switch crossovers, some of which have been in place for 60 years to address grade and passenger train issues.

 

Indeed there have been and will continue to be, but there's still grades in excess of 1% both East and Westbound. Then you have the Arizona Divide, Cajon Pass, etc. BNSF can not operate a 70MPH railroad across the territory with a low HP/T ratio that has become prevelant in todays railroading. 

P.S. Diningcar Not sure if you knew this or not Ashfork is a crew change point again. 

 

 

Lithonia Operator you might enjoy this video and learn a lesson as well toward the end of it when railfanning in the desert. Enjoy!

 

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 10:42 AM

Thanks, SD60MAC. If I'm out there, I'll be careful regarding the sand etc. I enjoyed the video.

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Posted by ns145 on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 10:50 AM

Lithonia Operator

 

 
Ulrich

 

 
Lithonia Operator

Thanks, Ulrich.

Were there any manifest trains?

 

 

 

 

Yes, some manifest trains too as I recall..But not near as many as the intermodal. But either which many..very busy. I got there..parked my car near trackside and didn't have to wait more than ten minutes for the train parade to begin. Was sorry to leave but I had to catch a flight back.

 

 

 

Thanks! Sounds great.

If Covid has been beaten back enough by June, we're going to take the trip I described over in the Passenger forum and spend some time there, and also find some UP trains to photograph.

 

Lithonia:

The Iowa Interstate's Bureau-Peoria line also runs thru Chillicothe, IL.  Traffic is light compared to BNSF, but includes some Rock Island heritage units and Norfolk Southern haulage rights trains.  There is also a very nice restored Rock Island depot in Chillicothe.

West of Chillicothe is the famous Edelstein Hill where the former AT&SF mainline climbs out of the Mississpippi River valley (so much for Illinois all being flat!).  There's a lot of nice photo spots all the way up the grade to Edelstein, IL.

IMHO, though, the best place to go see the Chillicothe Sub is Galesburg, IL.  Galesburg is a massive BNSF terminal with ex-BN lines coming in from Chicago, Peoria, Paducah, St.Louis/Kansas City, Lincoln, and the Twin Cities.  The Chillicothe Sub passes under the ex-BN trackage near downtown, with a double wye connection between the AT&SF and BN lines east of Cameron, IL and a flyover in Cameron, IL.  There is bridge right over the middle of the yard that you can park on, with great views of the locomotive servicing facility and the switchers working the trim end of the yard.  Amtrak trains from 3 different routes converge in Galesburg (Illinois Zephyr, Southwest Chief, and California Zephyr).  The Southwest Chief uses the Cameron connection to get on/off the ex-AT&SF trackage west of Galesburg. 

In short, there's LOTS of stuff to see.  I believe Virtual Railfan has a Galesburg camera now.  Google it and take a look.

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Posted by diningcar on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 10:55 AM

Ash Fork is not a great place to change crews. Poor Motels and eating establishments. But perhaps BNSF has found a way to make Ash Fork more desireable. I presume the unions signed off on this. Do you have infowhy the change? 

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