Trains.com

Train Consists Should Take Aesthetics Into Consideration

3607 views
36 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • 2,741 posts
Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 10:24 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

Based on what the steam fraternity says, aesthetic appeal vanished when diesels replaced steam.  Of course, I'm the sort of guy who is impressed by the sight a train consisting of 100 tank cars hauling crude oil.

 

 

Don't anyone here start with "take this to the Model Railroader forum."

The train model that launched my model railroading hobby at age 11 was a Tyco model of an EMD F7 diesel.  It was the power for a freight train set, and I think it was in Santa Fe blue-and-yellow colors.  With encouragement from an issue of Model Railroader, I took a razor saw to it and the shell from an unpowered B unit and put together an FP-7.  You can still see the glue seam where the two units were joined -- I use my imagination to fill in for technical model-making craftmanship.

I then painted it -- no air brush, just spray cans -- in a freelance bright-orange and sky-blue two-tone paint scheme.  I worked some black into the rooftop fans to produce some semblance of them looking like actual fans rather than molded on blobs of plastic.  I also worked out a "wash" of some black paint to resemble diesel-smoke staining those glossy colors.

The original Tyco "power truck" drive system was nothing to write home about, but this model had sentimental value and I still operate it with my Electrotren Talgo set in Amtrak colors.  That power truck finally gave out, and I "repowered" this locomotive with the chassis of an Athearn GP-35 that I bought for cheap at a model train show.  The frame of this 2nd-gen diesel actually fit the FP-7 shell length well.

So I took it to the local hobby shop specializing in trains but offering something for a variety of hobby interests.  I had the model on the counter asking what Kadee coupler would be a best fit when another man in the shop took an interest in this model, asking if I was OK if he took a photo. 

He explained that he was active in modeling OTR trucks and thought the paint scheme would look great on one of this models.  He asked what the "prototype" for the colors was.

I guess the passage from steam to diesel trains is bad enough, and there are people who either model or are fans of diesel 18-wheel trucks?  But who am I to judge who comes into the local hobby shop with a different interest than mine who spends money there to keep that shop going.

I explained that the color scheme was free-lanced and something I came up with, but the idea was that some commuter agency would take an old F-unit, maybe even upgrade the prime mover and the electrics, and paint it in eye-catching glossy colors, both to make the locomotive highly visible at grade crossings and also to motivate the public to ride the train.  There a precedent for that, with the old New Haven FL-9s getting rebuilt and upgraded by Metro North, and with some of them painted in the bright New Haven passenger-locomotive colors as a "heritage unit" and something eye-grabbing people to take the trains?  Anyone remember the 1st-gen Amtrak colors, where the colors on the inside of the trains were positively 60's psychedelic?  More recent Amtrak color schemes are much more subdued -- it is a change in fashion of industrial design.

I also suggested that the bright colors were characteristic of the early 1970s when I modified the model as a general theme in industrial style.

The man took his photo and thanked for it, and expressed the intention to paint one of this truck-tractor models in that color scheme that he thought was eye-catching.  So I guess there is a place for making a train look interesting and flashy, even though that is largely marketing and shaping what people think about the role of railroading, even though it doesn't contribute directly to the bottom line.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 3,139 posts
Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 11:41 AM

Shock Control
The only steam engines I really like are the later art deco steam engines, although I remain obsessed with earlier shifters with sloped tenders.

As a devotee of mid-century modernism, I prefer the EMD E and F units.  I love watching the B&O F3 A&B units running past that Faller Swiss Lake House.  I have the track recessed in, so I am watching it run past the back yards of a mid-century modern neighborhood.  


Perhaps you have visted the "30 Squares of Ontario" blog, written by a J.D. Lowe, and who is (among other things) modeling a section of downtown Toronto in the 1980s. He has constructed several modern/post-modern commercial buildings, and often shows (in abbreviated fashion) how he constructed them. 
The author is also a faily big fan of E.L. Moore, and in addition to hosting several unpublished articles E.L. Moore wrote on his blog, also described how Moore designed several key building models which were taken up by AHM/Pola/etc. and became staples of kitbashing in the 1970s & 1980s (when I got into the hobby) - kits like the Machine Shop, Aunt Millie's House/W.E. Snatchem Funeral home, Grusome Casket, Brewery/Pickle factory and so on, several of which I owned over the years.

I could take or leave the EMD E/F series (and copycats like the Alco PA, Baldwin shark, and so on) - I prefer  the more brutualist form-follows-function diesel designs of the 1950s/60s like the Baldwin DTS/AS series, FM Trainmaster, ALCO RS-11 - even the EMD GP7/GP9 were boxes on platforms on wheels which signaled "outta the way, we got stuff to move".*
* Yes, I am aware these locos usually ranged from 1600-2000 HP while modern engines are 4000+, but they still look powerful...

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Canada
  • 1,820 posts
Posted by cv_acr on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 10:32 AM

CMStPnP

Well the whole reason the SD-40-2 had porches originally was so they could have French Women doing the CAN-CAN on them.     Then the Canadiens in Quebec found out and ripped up all their orders with GE.    The ICC threatened anti-trust and that was the end of that idea.

Except that:

1) SD40-2s were built by GM Diesel*, not GE. (Due to import tarrifs and other customs regulations, most locomotives for Canadian railways were produced in Canadian factories. GM's plant in London, ON was known as GM Diesel Division. Canadian SD40-2s were built by GMDD and not EMD (GM ElectroMotive Division) in LaGrange. Later, when GM divested EMD/GMDD, both plants would be under the "EMD" (ElectroMotive Diesel) name, but not during the SD40-2 era.)

2) The ICC, an American board, has no say in Quebec.

Stick out tongue

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 10:09 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Based on what the steam fraternity says, aesthetic appeal vanished when diesels replaced steam.  Of course, I'm the sort of guy who is impressed by the sight a train consisting of 100 tank cars hauling crude oil.

The only steam engines I really like are the later art deco steam engines, although I remain obsessed with earlier shifters with sloped tenders.

As a devotee of mid-century modernism, I prefer the EMD E and F units.  I love watching the B&O F3 A&B units running past that Faller Swiss Lake House.  I have the track recessed in, so I am watching it run past the back yards of a mid-century modern neighborhood.  Yes

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 10:11 PM
 

CSSHEGEWISCH

Based on what the steam fraternity says, aesthetic appeal vanished when diesels replaced steam.  Of course, I'm the sort of guy who is impressed by the sight a train consisting of 100 tank cars hauling crude oil.

 

I second this.

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, December 28, 2020 11:19 AM

Based on what the steam fraternity says, aesthetic appeal vanished when diesels replaced steam.  Of course, I'm the sort of guy who is impressed by the sight a train consisting of 100 tank cars hauling crude oil.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, December 25, 2020 4:05 PM

Shock Control
Why don't railroads add more variety to their train consists, for aesthetic appeal?

Well the whole reason the SD-40-2 had porches originally was so they could have French Women doing the CAN-CAN on them.     Then the Canadiens in Quebec found out and ripped up all their orders with GE.    The ICC threatened anti-trust and that was the end of that idea.

  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 1,139 posts
Posted by Gramp on Friday, December 25, 2020 3:57 PM

Now can't the Jolly Green Giant come over, and put the cars back on the track? Ho, Ho, Ho!!!

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, December 24, 2020 11:42 PM

Murphy Siding
zugmann

 Shock Control

What do you think?
  

The spirit of Christmas past, no doubt.

 

Methinks the (true) "Spirit of Christmas" PASSED.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, December 24, 2020 11:24 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
charlie hebdo

A UP train derailed near Dixon, IL in Wednesday. 

20 cars on a NS  freight train derailed in Gary, IN Wednesday. 

 

 

 

Any word of the consist variation on those two trains?

 

 

The UP train was a large manifest, with about 40 cars on the ground taking out both mains.  It happened about 2am Thursday and it's expected the "service interruption" will be about 24 hours.  

UPDATE: 39 train cars involved in Lee County train derailment, no injuries reported (wrex.com) 

Jeff

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, December 24, 2020 10:54 PM

charlie hebdo

A UP train derailed near Dixon, IL in Wednesday. 

20 cars on a NS  freight train derailed in Gary, IN Wednesday. 

 

Any word of the consist variation on those two trains?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, December 24, 2020 10:53 PM

zugmann

 

 
Shock Control
What do you think?

 

Slow down the intake of chrismtas spirits. 

 

The spirit of Christmas past, no doubt.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Thursday, December 24, 2020 10:29 PM
 

zugmann

 

 
Shock Control
What do you think?

 

Slow down the intake of chrismtas spirits. 

 

Let the Man have his moment...

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, December 24, 2020 10:05 PM

A UP train derailed near Dixon, IL in Wednesday. 

20 cars on a NS  freight train derailed in Gary, IN Wednesday. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 3,139 posts
Posted by chutton01 on Thursday, December 24, 2020 8:29 PM

I'd be happy if the railroads properly blocked and balanced cars in trains to prevent stringlining and reduce chances of derailment due to poor mixing of long/short, empty/loaded, etc. rolling stock. The best looking train to me is one that's NOT halted due to cars flopped on their sides, piled up like toys, or off the track (and taking 100s of meters of said track along with it).

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, December 24, 2020 8:24 PM

GBSD70ACe

Oh boy and I thought the Biden caboose thread gave me a brain aneurysm .....

 

 

It's the season for fantasy. 

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • 22 posts
Posted by GBSD70ACe on Thursday, December 24, 2020 8:17 PM

Oh boy and I thought the Biden caboose thread gave me a brain aneurysm .....

 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:26 PM

I preferred solid Stagecoach yellow and green on the C&NW.

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,515 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:15 PM

BaltACD
Personally, when the railroads were operating their own passenger trains, I viewed trains that weren't consistent in their livery as being 'sub-standard' aesthetically, how dare they interrupt the beauty of the trains paint schemes with cars that actually paid the bills for the trains to operate, express cars, baggage cars RPO's and worst of all heavyweight cars.  The thoughts of a child.

I used to enjoy seeing a PRR tuscan red passenger train with a Mopac color foreign sleeper such as the New York (Penn) to San Antonio sleeper on the Penn Texan to St Louis, or the Red Frisco sleeper running in the B&O blue and gray National Limited. 

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, December 24, 2020 3:35 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Well if we a just talking about looks, I love heavyweight passenger cars. There is something durable, practical and classic about them that says "we are running a business here, a business that will take good care of you".

I concur wholeheartedly!  I've got a story...

When I was a little boy, five, maybe six years old my father had to make a run to a local hardware store and I went with him.  Christmas was coming and as I'm sure a lot of you remember many hardware stores sold electric trains at that time of year.  This store (which may have been Maywood Hardware in Maywood NJ, I'm not sure, it was a long time ago) was no exception.

There was a whole wall full of trains behind one of the counters!  Impressed the hell out of me, but what impressed me the most were the dark green passenger cars, they looked just like the cars on the local commuter trains!  As Sheldon says, durable, classic, and very businesslike.  

So now I've got a wall full of my own! 

Indulge your inner six-year-old from time to time, he'll thank you! 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Thursday, December 24, 2020 3:31 PM

Shock Control
What do you think?

Slow down the intake of chrismtas spirits. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:40 PM

BaltACD
...railroads exist for the economic equation of making money from what shipper/consignees pay for having goods transported between them.  They are not paid for 'artistic' appearance of the freight trains they operate.

A fascinating theory!  Is there evidence to support this? Yes

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:38 PM

York1
I think that the 12-foot-tall night watchman who springs out of his shack when the train passes by will make sure no animals get hurt.

Only if we can confirm that he is a vegetarian!

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:37 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Semper Vaporo
Thank you for volunteering to foot the bill the RRs will have making up trains to fit your esthetic notions.  I am sure there are others that will be happy to enjoy what you are paying for.

Thanks, again.  It'll sure be nice to see neatly tailored trains (with a little red caboose on the end!).  And all because of your generosity.

 

One thing many railfans overlook in their fandom - railroads exist for the economic equation of making money from what shipper/consignees pay for having goods transported between them.  They are not paid for 'artistic' appearance of the freight trains they operate.

Personally, when the railroads were operating their own passenger trains, I viewed trains that weren't consistent in their livery as being 'sub-standard' aesthetically, how dare they interrupt the beauty of the trains paint schemes with cars that actually paid the bills for the trains to operate, express cars, baggage cars RPO's and worst of all heavyweight cars.  The thoughts of a child.

 

Well if we a just talking about looks, I love heavyweight passenger cars. There is something durable, practical and classic about them that says "we are running a business here, a business that will take good care of you".

And inside they are solid, smooth and elegant.

But then again, I'm a practical sort, not attracted to flash and glamor.....

Sheldon 

    

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:36 PM

York1
 
Shock Control
Well, as an animal rights advocate, I would not support this.  It would set a precedent, and pretty soon trains would start transporting cows and pigs.   

I think that the 12-foot-tall night watchman who springs out of his shack when the train passes by will make sure no animals get hurt.

But think of the damage to any animal that is right outside of that door when he springs out!  We used to see how far it would knock a marble and came close to breaking the curved glass on the door of the china cabinet!  (Sure brought the adults into the room when the marble hit the oak frame of the door!  Put an end to those play hours right quick!)

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:30 PM

"kindred spirit"?  I think not... I am on the side of cheap, and what you are proposing ain't cheap... But if YOU are going to foot the bill,  Well that is a different story. 

If you have that much money... Could you float a loan to me?

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:27 PM

Shock Control
Well, as an animal rights advocate, I would not support this.  It would set a precedent, and pretty soon trains would start transporting cows and pigs.  

 

I think that the 12-foot-tall night watchman who springs out of his shack when the train passes by will make sure no animals get hurt.

York1 John       

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:10 PM

York1
I would include a car that carries zoo animals with the giraffe sticking his head out of a hole in the roof of the car.

Well, as an animal rights advocate, I would not support this.  It would set a precedent, and pretty soon trains would start transporting cows and pigs.  

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:03 PM

Shock Control
Or perhaps a Diamond chemical car, or a flat car carrying a missile or satellite? I think the railroads need to be a little more adventurous and imaginitive in their consists. What do you think?

 

I think that's a great idea!

I would include a car that carries zoo animals with the giraffe sticking his head out of a hole in the roof of the car.

York1 John       

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy