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Environmental-mode no longer?

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 2:10 PM

Don't forget - electricity still costs money!

One way or another, the power companies will get their bite.  And considering that recharging a vehicle will be a demand issue (especially larger vehicles), the power suppliers will charge demand prices.

I'd be interested to know how much it will cost for a fill-up on one of those electric self driving trucks...  

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 12:23 PM

ttrraaffiicc
 
Euclid

Shippers use rail over trucking because rail is lower cost.  Why would they switch to trucking at a higher cost just because trucking is more environmentally friendly?

 

 

 

I was using this as an example. Some shipers tout the environmental advantages of their use of rail. This would no longer be the case when trucks go zero-emissions.

 

All things being equal, shippers would use the more environmentally friendly option for shipping. But all things aren’t equal. For bulk goods shipped over long distances, railroads will still be the less expensive way to ship for a lot of years to come.

 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 10:07 AM

There is already much being made of the residual effects of wind and solar power.  Landfills are seeing used wind components, and I recently saw a similar warning for solar components.  This is not far removed from nuclear power, where the spent fuel must be carefully disposed of due to radioactivity that will persist for generations.

As was mentioned, the building of many of the "green" power sources isn't green at all.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Erik_Mag on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 12:21 AM

ttrraaffiicc


Bill Stephens' latest blog post highlights a huge problem looming for rail frieght. Railroads have long held the advantage of being more environmentally friendly, but as trucks achieve zero-emissions, this will no longer be the case.

Not all harmful emissions from trucks come from the engine... You may not have noticed that a chemical used in tires is killing a lot of salmon.

Still think it will be a while before we see much in the way of long haul trucking using electric power.

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Posted by ttrraaffiicc on Monday, December 21, 2020 11:53 PM

Euclid

Shippers use rail over trucking because rail is lower cost.  Why would they switch to trucking at a higher cost just because trucking is more environmentally friendly?

 

I was using this as an example. Some shipers tout the environmental advantages of their use of rail. This would no longer be the case when trucks go zero-emissions.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, December 21, 2020 10:27 PM

ttrraaffiicc
Paradoxically, when trucks become zero-emissions sooner than rail, rail freight will be more environmentally harmful than trucking. Even if rail achieves zero-emissions at the same time as trucking, shippers who now use rail to reduce environmental impact will no longer have a reason to do so and will likely return to road freight.

 

Shippers use rail over trucking because rail is lower cost.  Why would they switch to trucking at a higher cost just because trucking is more environmentally friendly?

 

 

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, December 21, 2020 10:18 PM

you forgot all the open mines for battery raw material that now make parts of Canada look worse than the surface of the moon.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Leo_Ames on Monday, December 21, 2020 9:27 PM

A lot of electricity will continue to be produced by means that create air pollution, even as coal falls by the wayside. So until all the natural gas power plants and such are shuttered, rail still wins where air quality is concerned as long as they keep pace with progress.

And there's also an environmental cost for transportation past just air pollution. Safe to say that a busy CTC signaled single track mainline with regular passing sidings takes up a lot less land for instance than the addition of freeway lanes to accomodate substantial growth in freight traffic. And outside of major grain lines, probably kills a lot fewer animals and birds than regular vehicle traffic as well.

And even clean electricity has substantial issues. The backlash against wind turbines for instance due to their noise, decreased property values for nearby residences, bird strikes, and the aesthetic blight quite a few people view them as in regions that often are reliant on their natural beauty to drive tourism.

And hydro dams for another example are rife with environmental issues and such, despite being non-polluting sources of electricity. In fact there's a lot of push back in recent years against them, even at a time when the fight has intensified to clean up our air.

It's a problem though for sure, but I believe rail still will hold a narrower lead as the more environmentally friendly mode for the transport of bulk cargo over long distances. 

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Environmental-mode no longer?
Posted by ttrraaffiicc on Monday, December 21, 2020 8:30 PM

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation-tower/archive/2020/12/20/railroads-have-a-green-advantage-but-for-how-long.aspx

Bill Stephens' latest blog post highlights a huge problem looming for rail frieght. Railroads have long held the advantage of being more environmentally friendly, but as trucks achieve zero-emissions, this will no longer be the case.

Paradoxically, when trucks become zero-emissions sooner than rail, rail freight will be more environmentally harmful than trucking. Even if rail achieves zero-emissions at the same time as trucking, shippers who now use rail to reduce environmental impact will no longer have a reason to do so and will likely return to road freight.

Unfortunately, this is another losing battle in the seemingly futile struggle against trucking. I am hoping for the best, but I am not holding my breath.

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