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Tell Me About Wigwag Crossing Signals

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Tell Me About Wigwag Crossing Signals
Posted by Shock Control on Saturday, December 19, 2020 9:17 AM

Wigwag crossing signals were mentioned in another thread.  Never heard of 'em.

Can someone tell me where they were used?  When did they go out of fashion?

 

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, December 19, 2020 9:24 AM

Google is a wonderful thing:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigwag_(railroad)

Wig-wags generally involved a swinging disk with a lamp at the center.  Configurations varied.  There are very few on active railroads any more, if any.  

There is one operating at the main gate of Greenfield Village in Dearborn, MI.  It protects the crossing of the on-grounds railroad there.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 19, 2020 10:26 AM

Perhaps oddly, the article does not mention the Alexander Holley Rudd-developed replacement, which uses alternating red lights to mimick the 'swinging watchman's lantern' effect of the wigwags.  This was specifically developed to reduce the electrical demand needed by the sometimes-large magnets or motors that produced the swinging action.

I don't have the 'citation needed' for the official decision that required the alternate-flashing Rudd standard type for crossings, but it had taken effect by 1949 (with a 'grandfather clause' for existing installations.)  It was interesting to learn that the last of the wigwags in operation in Southern California was only replaced in April of this year -- and that one still survives in active service in Colorado.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, December 19, 2020 10:48 AM

While it's not a wigwag, I wish the Billups design (STOP DEATH STOP) had caught on.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 19, 2020 11:05 AM

SD70Dude
While it's not a wigwag, I wish the Billups design (STOP DEATH STOP) had caught on.

I thoroughly agree that some aspects of the intent should be employed in crossings where there is 'above a certain percentage' of scofflaw intrusion.  It can be amusing to sit in on 'bull sessions' where better, ahem, attention to crossing protection devices on the part of the general public is discussed after a few, perhaps a few too many, beers or other inducers of an alternate state of consciousness...

One thing bounced around is more intensive warning that triggers when sensors detect a prospective 'intrusion' -- vehicles approaching at the wrong speed, an attempt to pull around a gate, a creeping forward past a stop line, for example -- that produces things like firing the sort of strobe now familiar to many motorists as associated with red-light cameras and resulting nuisance tickets.  Loud warning horns or Federal-Mogul si-reens, flashing neon lights, special PA-style audible warnings ... many and terrible are the responses a little Old Dutch Philosopher can induce in those tasked with the awful and unrequited responsibility to keep road grade crossings safe.  Now, whether local residents approve of this stuff is an entirely different, and also relatively easily predictable, story... and those are taxpayers of more interest to local governments than stray motorists.

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Posted by timz on Saturday, December 19, 2020 11:14 AM

Wigwags were always (?) identifiable by ear -- one clinky ding per cycle of the pendulum (or was it a ding for the leftward swing and another for the rightward?).

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Posted by ORNHOO on Saturday, December 19, 2020 1:09 PM

tree68
There are very few on active railroads any more, if any.  

A couple of years ago I rode on the Willamette Shore Trolley. They had an operating wig-wag at the crossing  of (IIRC) South Riverwood Road.

http://wst.oregontrolley.com/

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Saturday, December 19, 2020 2:01 PM

ORNHOO
tree68
There are very few on active railroads any more, if any.  

A couple of years ago I rode on the Willamette Shore Trolley. They had an operating wig-wag at the crossing  of (IIRC) South Riverwood Road.

http://wst.oregontrolley.com/

 I found it on Google Earth Street View!  (like to never got G.E. to go into Street View instead of "Ground Level" view.)

 

 45°26'36.25"N, 122°39'7.69"W

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by ORNHOO on Saturday, December 19, 2020 5:02 PM
The WST has not operated at all this year ( due to you know what ), hopefully it will be back up and running post vaccine,
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Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:15 AM

Thanks all for the replies!

This passage from the aforementioned Wiki article indicates the following:

"A ruling by the United States Interstate Commerce Commission mandated a change in the target in the early 1930s. It required a change in the paint scheme from solid red to a black cross and border on a white background, but there was no other change until a ruling that required the alternating red lights in use today.[citation needed] That, along with other rules about grade crossing signaling that the wigwags were unable to meet due to their power requirements, rendered them obsolete for new installations after 1949, but grandfathering laws allowed them to remain until the crossings they protected were upgraded. The Magnetic Signal Company was sold to the Griswold Signal Company of Minneapolis shortly after WWII. Production of new signals continued until 1949, and replacement parts until 1960."

This would suggest that some wigwag crossings may have been operation into the 1960s?

Would these later wigwags have been more prevelant in certain geographical regions or in connection with certain railroads?

Would the B&O and Pennsylvania have had wigwag crossings as late as the 1960s?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by timz on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:29 AM

Wigwags were common circa 1970 -- circa 1980, probably not that rare. Dunno how long the one at Model lasted

https://goo.gl/maps/SvVHqHNZcBaPM8Ks8

into the 1990s? Or later?

(Or was the Model crossing the one with the wigwag? Maybe I'm misremembering which SFe xing west of La Junta had one.)

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Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:43 AM

timz
Wigwags were common circa 1970 -- circa 1980, probably not that rare. Dunno how long the one at Model lasted

https://goo.gl/maps/SvVHqHNZcBaPM8Ks8

into the 1990s? Or later?

Then it's official:  I must needs have a wigwam crossing on my annual holiday layout, which I hope to complete today.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:44 AM

I think the basic situation with wig-wags was this:

New construction was ruled out after 1949: if one broke or was rendered unusable (for example, in an accident) it had to be replaced with a new-type 'Rudd' signal, not another wig-wag.  But short of that, it could be fixed and maintained indefinitely.

Now, there's a cost associated with replacing a crossing signal.  And as long as maintaining the wig-wag cost less, as perceived by the railroad, than doing the replacement, it's likely the wig-wag would keep on being fixed, until "something else" made its replacement necessary.  That might be road widening, or gate installation, or an accident mandating better or more visible protection ... and there would be normal sorts of attrition.

There is also a cost associated with running the signal, and this might start to become noticeable as electricity use became more generally widespread.  If this were a system running on batteries, as earlier installations might have been, the heavier current needed to pull an armature with electromagnets vs. turning a couple of light bulbs on and off might become an even worse drag on costs.

At some point I suspect the current system where local and state governments chip in for newer crossing protection would reach a 'sweet spot' with rising costs, and this was probably not later than the '60s.  Whatever wig-wags survived would do so in remote or low-income areas, but even there they would be failing, here and there, and every time there would be a replacement.

I don't know if there was a tendency for certain regions to 'treasure' these, or certain railroads to have a larger stock of parts or the right kind of motivated workmen to keep fixing them.  But there were increasingly good reasons for any railroad to replace them... and in my opinion the Rudd type is a far better crossing warning under almost any if not all situations.

Note that even today, there's said to be one in active service (and others only recently retired, a couple in rather surprising places).  

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Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:53 AM

Overmod
I think the basic situation with wig-wags was this:

New construction was ruled out after 1949: if one broke or was rendered unusable (for example, in an accident) it had to be replaced with a new-type 'Rudd' signal, not another wig-wag.  But short of that, it could be fixed and maintained indefinitely.

Now, there's a cost associated with replacing a crossing signal.  And as long as maintaining the wig-wag cost less, as perceived by the railroad, than doing the replacement, it's likely the wig-wag would keep on being fixed, until "something else" made its replacement necessary.  That might be road widening, or gate installation, or an accident mandating better or more visible protection ... and there would be normal sorts of attrition.

There is also a cost associated with running the signal, and this might start to become noticeable as electricity use became more generally widespread.  If this were a system running on batteries, as earlier installations might have been, the heavier current needed to pull an armature with electromagnets vs. turning a couple of light bulbs on and off might become an even worse drag on costs.

At some point I suspect the current system where local and state governments chip in for newer crossing protection would reach a 'sweet spot' with rising costs, and this was probably not later than the '60s.  Whatever wig-wags survived would do so in remote or low-income areas, but even there they would be failing, here and there, and every time there would be a replacement.

I don't know if there was a tendency for certain regions to 'treasure' these, or certain railroads to have a larger stock of parts or the right kind of motivated workmen to keep fixing them.  But there were increasingly good reasons for any railroad to replace them... and in my opinion the Rudd type is a far better crossing warning under almost any if not all situations.

Note that even today, there's said to be one in active service (and others only recently retired, a couple in rather surprising places).  

This completly makes sense.  It is precisely how lots of mandated upgrades occur in business and industry. Yes

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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:19 PM

Part of the problems with many wig-wags was that they sat on a massive concreete base in the center of the roadway (vertical upright type). They tended to get run into a lot by the inept/inebriated/underqualified or sideswiped by truckers and agridummies with extra-wide loads. Preserved versions in Colorado include Golden (CRRM), La Junta (Otero County Museum) and Hugo (UP Depot museum), lonely Delhi CO (between La Junta and Trinidad) was one of the last. (Common into the 1990's)

Most of the time, a single wig-wag was replaced with two mast mounted flashers/lights/bell fixtures. Was always fun to listen to them wind up before the clapper hit the gong for the first time.

Always wanted one as an exotic doorbell.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Gramp on Monday, December 21, 2020 4:18 PM

Wigwags were numerous on the Northwestern and Milwaukee Road on branch lines in Wisconsin well into the 2000s. 
https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/04/06-wig-wag

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UzPvZ0iPPk4

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 21, 2020 4:33 PM

Gramp
Wigwams were numerous on the Northwestern and Milwaukee Road on branch lines in Wisconsin well into the 2000s. 

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/04/06-wig-wag

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UzPvZ0iPPk4

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Gramp on Monday, December 21, 2020 10:18 PM

That, too!  Don't you just love autocorrect?

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 21, 2020 10:32 PM

Gramp
That, too!  Don't you just love autocorrect?

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 10:50 AM

It may be that the last wig-wags in Sheboygan WI at Saemann Avenue have been shut down this year - my understanding is that the Wisconsin Dept of Transportation regarded them as inadequate crossing protection for motorists.

In Plymouth WI (west of Sheboygan) the wig-wags were still going strong as of 2005 when I took photos, and presumably for a few years after that.

There were probably fewer and fewer railroad employees who knew how to keep the things running, and since they featured moving parts, wear and tear was predictable.

Ditto for the Griswold signals which featured a rotating (yellow initially, then red) stop sign.

Dave Nelson

  

 

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 3:49 PM

FWIW the alternating lights on more recent grade crossing signals were designed to mimic the to-and-fro motion of the wig-wag.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 8:37 PM

dknelson

It may be that the last wig-wags in Sheboygan WI at Saemann Avenue have been shut down this year - my understanding is that the Wisconsin Dept of Transportation regarded them as inadequate crossing protection for motorists.

In Plymouth WI (west of Sheboygan) the wig-wags were still going strong as of 2005 when I took photos, and presumably for a few years after that.

There were probably fewer and fewer railroad employees who knew how to keep the things running, and since they featured moving parts, wear and tear was predictable.

Ditto for the Griswold signals which featured a rotating (yellow initially, then red) stop sign.

Dave Nelson

  

 

 

The wigwags are probably just fine, it's the cheesepicker motorists that are inadequate.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 8:55 PM

wjstix

FWIW the alternating lights on more recent grade crossing signals were designed to mimic the to-and-fro motion of the wig-wag.

Forty-four flashes per minute.

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Posted by petitnj on Monday, December 28, 2020 11:11 AM

We have a perfecty operating Wig Wag at the Jackson Street Roundhouse in St. Paul, MN. See trainride.org. It was stood back up when the roundhouse opened in 1999 and has been powered by a 12 VDC Triplite power supply ever since. It runs continuously on Wednesdays and Saturdays when the museum is open. 

 

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Posted by 500VDC on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 8:40 AM

Here is some historic footage of the Ann Arbor RR in action. This link takes you to an operating wig wag: https://youtu.be/YI0xuVPsZnM?t=1736

Tags: wig wag
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Posted by Fred M Cain on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 12:47 PM

I remember that the SP had some of what I used to call "upside down" wig wags guarding some street crossings in downtown Phoenix.  They were mounted in the middle of the street on a short, heavy concrete piller with the target on top and a counterweight on the bottom.

 

I will try and see if I can find a picture. 

Here is a couple of 'em here right at the top of this page although they are not in Phoenix nor are they even on the SP as far as I can tell.

http://www.southbaysignal.com/wig-wag-signals.html 

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

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Posted by Dardanellerambler on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 1:02 PM

Nevada Railroad Museum (I think that is the name) at Ely NV has at least one working Wig-Wag also.

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Posted by dmikee on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 1:52 PM

A few short years ago we went to a garden RR display just west of Denver where the neighborhood had agreed to no more train whistles at 3 consecutive grade crossings. Instead, UP installed double lane crossing gates on both sides, blocking all traffic from trying to sneak around the former single lane gates. Everybody was happy with the solution for noise reduction and safety too.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 2:15 PM

Everybody was happy with the solution for noise reduction and safety too.

Methinks the only ones who wouldn't be happy with said solution would be those who routinely drive around the gates...

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Posted by jumper on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:55 PM

Back in 2011 I was in Sacramento to visit the California State Railroad Museum. They had an operating wig wag signal in a small courtyard just outside one of the entrances. I think there might be one in Strasburg PA at the PRR museum but it may be static.

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