York1 There is a driver shortage at the same time the pandemic has increased demand for shipping products.
There is a driver shortage at the same time the pandemic has increased demand for shipping products.
Compare this to unionized railroad operating jobs. All their jobs are out-and-back so they are home at least every other day. Plus, they get paid more, with better benefits.
It's just like the regional airlines. They kept crying about a pilot shortage. They finally raised their hourly rate and they had plenty of applicants. My brother worked for American Eagle as a Captain before he went to Northwest/Delta. In their first year, First Officers (copilots) made about $15K a year. We were eating in the local Cracker Barrel once when I was visiting him and he pointed out one of the waiters and said he was an FO trying to make ends meet.
Say what you will about unions, but if there isn't a critical mass of union jobs in an industry, wages suffer because employers don't have to worry about a union coming in. That's why nonunion wages are much higher in the auto industry than in trucking. There is still a threat of the UAW organizing if they don't come close to union benefits and pay.
Having seen the aftermath of an inattentive, speeding trucker once (Marengo toll plaza crash, 2003, 8 dead, 20 injured), I don't want to share the road with guys with little sleep driving at 75-80 mph.
There are exemptions, but one wonders if they are being abused?
https://www.ehstoday.com/safety/article/21127165/dot-adjusts-exemptions-for-truck-drivers-during-covid19-crisis
https://www.seattletrucklaw.com/blog/trucking-rules-changed-under-coronavirus-what-does-that-mean-for-the-future-of-trucking-safety/
https://www.ccjdigital.com/fleet-drivers-increase-severe-speeding-during-covid-19/
Something I find interesting is that this seems like a pretty big deal as far as criminal activity and possible consequences from a derailed train go. Yet it seems like getting out on bail until their court date wasn't too difficult. Would the same thing happen if there were 41 instances of people loosening the lugnuts on jet airliners that might be carrying people that worked on that pipeline project?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
tree68Indeed, this has been the case for quite some time now, from what I've read in the news, etc. It far preceeds the panicdemic.
Almost like people don't want to be driving 20 hours a day?
To stress my point:
I'm not questioing the validity of the claim of hours worked. I'm not questioning the claim of money made. I am questioning whether I want to share the road with these trucks. Esp since we have a thread where we were discussing unsafe practices like shunting tracks.
Where's that paid truck lobbyist dude that usually comes around to threads like these?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I found the original topic to be quite worthy of discussion and very interesting. It raised questions that went unexplored as the thread delved into speed limits on highways. The news report of the shunts being placed is specific about tangible behavior and motive. So I don’t worry about its credibility being compromised by the ideology of the source.
A key point ignored was the question of who else may have participated in the placing of the 41 shunts over a period of several days or weeks. Was it just those two women, or were there others involved? Also, was the objective just the testing of the shunt practice just to try it out for perhaps linking it to a means of greater destruction and disruption such as derailments? Or were the shunts placed for achieving the stated result of preventing (or delaying) rail shipments of pipeline construction materials being shipped to the site of the disputed new pipeline. But how that would that be accomplished by the shunts?
I saw another article that mentioned sabotage in that same general location by pouring concrete over the tracks to derail a train. And the perpetrators then called the railroad company to inform them so they (the railroad) sould stop the trains to prevent people on the trains from being killed or injured. So we get somewhat of a profile of the perpetrators; always trying to protect people from train wrecks and new pipelines.
As far as the original post, I think I have a solution. Instead of another round of stimulus checks, why don't we spend the money instead to convert all those vacant Sears, K-mart, and J.C. Penney buildings into rehabilitation and training centers to incarcerate the safe distancing and mask scofflaws and other domestic terrorists until the pandemic is over?
Then afterwards, we take the bars off the windows and just call them "homeless shelters". A true "win-win" if ever there was one.
samfp1943 Since I spent some time (25 yrs) in the commercial transport industry; I found that was also of some interest. Shadow's Owner is currently, in that business. She works for a carrier that has several areas of concentration ( dry vans, and tankers). So I would respect the information she briongs to the conversation.
I agree, I find it far less challenging to respect her "credentials" than some others who don't seem to be able to disagree with anyone without wrapping it in a veiled personal attack.
York1There is a driver shortage...
Indeed, this has been the case for quite some time now, from what I've read in the news, etc. It far preceeds the panicdemic.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BackshopI'm not questioning her salary figures, I'm questioning the physical state of her drivers.
You may not be questioning the salary and mileage claims, but others on here have.
One of the largest trucking companies in the U.S. is located a few miles from me. Their situation is the same as Cat has reported.
Her drivers may face a difficult physical status, but her company is not alone. There is a driver shortage at the same time the pandemic has increased demand for shipping products.
Backshop A "normal" driver does 100-120K miles a year. Hers are doing it in 3-4 months.
The government rule changes during the past eight months have made trucking anything but normal.
Good for drivers and safety? Probably not. But that doesn't make her reports a "story".
Anectdotal: Yesterday I drove about 50 miles on Interstate 80. Normally, the long haul trucks go 60 - 70 mph in this area. The speed limit for cars and trucks is 75 mph. Yesterday, I drove 80 mph. The semis were almost all doing the same speed, with several going faster.
York1 John
HOLY COW! I just read back through this Thread, and it's giving me a case of whiplash!
I started it the other day when I found a series of stories referencing the tale of a couple of women in Washington State who were arrested for attempting to sbotage local railroad lines in their State.
Topically, it seemed to be a subject of interest on this Forum,and timely as well. I steared clear of the mentions of the two miscrants political histories, due to the 'no politics policy' here.
Almost immediately, I got 'called on the carpet' for my sourced information being from 'right-wing' sources. So I just considered the'source', and let it slide; some people never seem to be able to look beyond their own personal levels of indroctination.
One of the key issues, mentioned in the linked source information was the mention of the planting of 'shunts' in the areas of highway rail grade crossings. With a potential of causing a crash at the highway-rail crossing(?) Also the similar placing of 'shunts'[some 40 incidents, reported?] to create problems with rail signaling, and the potential to cause a train to go into an emergency braking action; resulting in chaos, and maybe, eve a wreck?
Interesting conversations cretainly, worthy of discussions here.
Then the conversation jumped to highway speeds, and traffic on roadways. Auto and more specifically, commercial truck traffic.
WE all drive (?) so again, a topical issue.
Since I spent some time (25 yrs) in the commercial transport industry; I found that was also of some interest. Shadow's Owner is currently, in that business. She works for a carrier that has several areas of concentration (dry vans, and tankers). So I would respect the information she brings to the conversation. Since I have been retired for 20+ years, my info is less than current. Having worked for carriers, in the past; that ran single driver, and team driver operations, I am aware, that generally, team drivers can roughly double the income potential of the bottom line, for a single drivers earnings.
What I have no knowledge of, beyond knowing that because of the current pandemic, the Feds have instituted what amount to HOS waivers in the industry. I'd leave it to Shadow's Owner, and several others(?) who post around here from time to time; to fill in that kind of information. Similarly, current drivers wages, and current pay packages(?).
I do know that OTR Driver's wages, and how the final pay packages are arrived at, and are products of a number of varied factors. Such calculations, Vary from company to company.
I know that haulage of liquids, and flowable products; in tank-type trailers, generally, move at the hands of skilled operators. The fees for their movement are mostly at premium levels.
So those elements would account for what seem to be higher mileages with teams of drivers, and high value, and dangerous/hazardous commodities being transported.
York1 I'm not sure why some are questioning her comments. What is she saying that is not correct?
I'm not sure why some are questioning her comments. What is she saying that is not correct?
Walmart truck drivers with two years experience average $86,000 per year.
Highest pay for dry grain bulk driver is $120,000.
Highest pay for liquid bulk hasmat is $120,000.
Highest pay for heavy equipment transport is $150,000.
Team drivers can get well over 1,000 miles per day.
Drivers with experience can earn well over $100,000 per year.
Don't just look at average salaries. Check out the salaries of experienced truckers driving long distances with important cargo.
Shadow the Cats owner Murphy that is our starting pay and not ONE of our new guys in on a waiver. Only our drivers that have been here for at least 10 years or MORE is on these runs. They also have at least 1 million accident free with us and also will shut down for rest at anytime. The average pay here for a year is around 70K a year for our drivers our tanker boys are normally in the 110K a year range.
Murphy that is our starting pay and not ONE of our new guys in on a waiver. Only our drivers that have been here for at least 10 years or MORE is on these runs. They also have at least 1 million accident free with us and also will shut down for rest at anytime. The average pay here for a year is around 70K a year for our drivers our tanker boys are normally in the 110K a year range.
Even passenger cars can overdrive their brakes. Back in '68, I was on vacation and went from San Fransico out to Muir Woods and up Mt Tamalpais. Coming down, I was enjoying the rental car and came down at speed. Rode the brake to keep from going too fast. When I got to the bottom and a stop sign, I had NO brakes! Fortunately no traffic on the cross stree and no pedestrians or police. (Learned a lesson. I should have known better because Cincinnati has hills and I knew about the rule you go down at the speed you can go up. But I was enjoying the trip and no excuses. Got lucky.
Most states have gotten rid of the split speed limit or made it a 5 MPH difference at the most. Yes my drivers are getting worn out that are on the waiver we have repeatedly asked the customers that restrict drivers into their plants to certify more of our drivers into them. Why they all have the same background checks done just to be able to hold the Hazmat endorsement and TWIC card for their employment here. The issue isn't with my driver's wanting to HOARD the miles it falls on the customers that refuse to allow us to send different drivers into their plants. If they would let us send 1 or 2 drivers in to train in procedures we could start giving the waiver driver's breaks that they so desperatly need and I am not just talking a couple days here and there. I am talking pulling them from those runs for weeks at a time so they can rest properly.
A few points... non truckers would be surprised at how many miles aren't on interstates. Also, she says they drive 16-18 hours a day. That leaves 6-8 hours to fuel, eat, sleep, do laundry, get unloaded, get loaded etc. There aren't enough hours in the day to do that safely. I drove a truck for a short period, I know.
Backshop It sounds like the "work kids" who are qualified for certain facilities are pressured to keep driving and not to take time off, probably by office staff and dispatchers who have never driven OTR. I'm sure the drivers will get big profit sharing bonuses in appreciation for helping the owners get filthy rich. (sarcasm)
It sounds like the "work kids" who are qualified for certain facilities are pressured to keep driving and not to take time off, probably by office staff and dispatchers who have never driven OTR. I'm sure the drivers will get big profit sharing bonuses in appreciation for helping the owners get filthy rich. (sarcasm)
York1 charlie hebdo I'm hardly the only member on here who has expressed doubts about the truck lady's claims. I did not say you were the only one. My post was meant to point out that the mileage and hours she wrote about are not against the law. I checked some sites that say team drivers can expect over 1,000 miles per day, and if the loading-unloading is planned correctly, they can get more than that.
charlie hebdo I'm hardly the only member on here who has expressed doubts about the truck lady's claims.
I did not say you were the only one.
My post was meant to point out that the mileage and hours she wrote about are not against the law.
I checked some sites that say team drivers can expect over 1,000 miles per day, and if the loading-unloading is planned correctly, they can get more than that.
Backshop tree68 charlie hebdo (way over speed limit)? We're talking commercial trucks, not cars. U.S. Truck and Auto Speed Limits (truckercountry.com)
tree68 charlie hebdo (way over speed limit)?
charlie hebdo (way over speed limit)?
We're talking commercial trucks, not cars.
U.S. Truck and Auto Speed Limits (truckercountry.com)
BackshopIt is, but it depends. A 5mph difference isn't much. When Michigan used to have 70 for cars and 55 for trucks is when there were problems. The point is that overworked/under-rested drivers at 75mph isn't safe. When you're tired, your reflexes are much slower.
When you get into descending grades - there are, in many cases, truck speed limits that can be as much as 30 MPH slower than car limits. 80K pounds of truck and load can easily burn up their brakes descending grades at high speed; this is part of the reason the so called 'Jake Brake' was created to enhance the truck diesel engine as a braking tool. On the grades you can also see emergency 'runoffs' for out of control trucks.
Driving trucks through territory with long severe grades is as challenging for truckers as similar territory is for railroad engineers - getting their vehicles to the top of the grade is easy, getting it down the other side safely is where their skills get demonstrated.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It is, but it depends. A 5mph difference isn't much. When Michigan used to have 70 for cars and 55 for trucks is when there were problems. The point is that overworked/under-rested drivers at 75mph isn't safe. When you're tired, your reflexes are much slower.
I believe a number of studies have shown that having different speed limits for cars and trucks is a prime cause of traffic congestion and open road highway accidents.
tree68Not hardly - many Interstates in the Midwest and the Great Plains are posted for 75 MPH.
Ha-ha, have you ever driven in Northern Illinois? Just curious.
Not hardly - many Interstates in the Midwest and the Great Plains are posted for 75 MPH.
wow.
17+ hour days for nine months driving trucks at 75 (way over speed limit)? That poses a horrible safety hazard for everyone. It's criminal or certainly should be.
Shadow the Cats ownerThe problem is 3 fold. 1st off the Global supply chain was disrupted by COVID totally. Some of the plants that my waiver drivers are serving would not be running without the materials my work kids would be delivering. These drivers for months now have been driving like supermen and women all across this nation and they are starting to wear out. 2 some plants especially in the chemical side of things require strict training to deliver to them. That is why several of my drivers on the tanker side can not get relived they are the ONLY drivers in our fleet qualified by the customer to deliver to them. The last one is the government itself. By constantly ramping up and then down on what level of closure they are throwing states into they are constantly disrupting how the logistics system can respond to the pandemic. The industry no sooner gets one state's situation under control so to speak in terms of PPE and other crap and then the next wave is hitting us. The chain can only be pulled in so many directions before it snaps. I can tell you this much from what I have seen my drivers know when to shut it down for the night they also know how hard they need to push to keep the supplies needed by the healthcare industry flowing and the groceries at the stores. My kids at work are doing everything they can to save lives without taking them from being tired. It isn't easy walking that line. They have personally seen what happens to members of their own families and friends that have caught and several have lost loved ones from this crap. They want it to end just as much as the rest of us in this nation so they can go back to being safe and legal drivers. They would rather be doing their 70 hour weeks instead of 120 on average they have been for the last 8 months. That has been the average for my solo drivers and we have upped their trucks to 75 MPH to make sure they can get to where they need to be as fast as possible.
They would rather be doing their 70 hour weeks instead of 120 on average they have been for the last 8 months. That has been the average for my solo drivers and we have upped their trucks to 75 MPH to make sure they can get to where they need to be as fast as possible.
I would venture you are complicit in your 'qualfied' drivers being the only ones - my God start training other drivers. Yes there will be ones the don't measure up, but without starting a training scenario you will drive the already qualified drivers to early graves and maybe some innocent bystanders.
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