Shadow the Cats owner We have been trying for now 3 weeks to get them removed from our SIT yard and still nothing. We also have 2 sidings full of fracking sand that needs to be picked up but again can not get anyone at NS to respond to our demands. Yep your hearing that right 2k tons ... Then he found out why our requests had been ignored. NS was trying to freeze us out due to PSR. Why we don't ship a trainload a week with them. Our lawyers are now involved this one will be fun as well they are suggesting a formal complaint to the STB along with a request for an order to provide service to us.
We have been trying for now 3 weeks to get them removed from our SIT yard and still nothing. We also have 2 sidings full of fracking sand that needs to be picked up but again can not get anyone at NS to respond to our demands. Yep your hearing that right 2k tons ...
Then he found out why our requests had been ignored. NS was trying to freeze us out due to PSR. Why we don't ship a trainload a week with them. Our lawyers are now involved this one will be fun as well they are suggesting a formal complaint to the STB along with a request for an order to provide service to us.
We have been trying for now 3 weeks to get them removed from our SIT yard and still nothing. We also have 2 sidings full of fracking sand that needs to be picked up but again can not get anyone at NS to respond to our demands. Yep your hearing that right 2k tons of product needed in other states plus our empties and we still can not get anyone to respond to our requests for service. Emails phone calls hell my boss even tried smoke signals and also asked a track crew that was doing work on the NS line today when they would be coming for these cars. Track worker called the dispatcher and was told we were never told by the Sales department that service had been requested. My boss proceeded to call the head of the Sales department for the area we are in a few choice words.
Lithonia Operator tree68 As it's applied today, of course, SIT is just a cheap way to store product. Certainly cheaper than building silos or other storage facilities that you have to pay property tax on. Houston Ed's railroad operated several SIT yards, as I recall. But Shadow's owner said those cars were empty.
tree68 As it's applied today, of course, SIT is just a cheap way to store product. Certainly cheaper than building silos or other storage facilities that you have to pay property tax on. Houston Ed's railroad operated several SIT yards, as I recall.
As it's applied today, of course, SIT is just a cheap way to store product. Certainly cheaper than building silos or other storage facilities that you have to pay property tax on.
Houston Ed's railroad operated several SIT yards, as I recall.
But Shadow's owner said those cars were empty.
I presume 'the cat' notified the railroad the cars are now able to be pulled - it is amazing how many times that simple act gets overlooked.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
UP and BNSF have them as well.... Crocodile tears from industry if they screw up and leave something where demurrage rates kick in.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Storage in transit. Now there's an oxymoron for for you.
Thanks, Balt.
Lithonia Operator But, seriously folks ... What does it mean?
But, seriously folks ...
What does it mean?
Storage in Transit
At one time the Railroads had numerous 'Transit' rates that covered various manufacturing/logistics operations.
In general the Tranist rates created a through rate between original origin and ultimate destination for someting that changes form in route. Milling in Transit was a frequently applied rate. 100K tons of wheat are loaded at Elevator 1 and are shipped to Mill 9, at Mill 9 those 100K tons of wheat are ground into flour that are then moved to BakerZ. A through transit rate applies to the trip from Elevatorl 1 to BakerZ, despite the product changing form at Mill 9. The railraod had to keep track of the tonnages handled at Mill 9 to make sure they weren't being 'played' by the participants in the shipment moving in this service.
Site for Immobile Trains
Sucks, in toto
Stuck, idle, trapped
Suspended in time
Sadly Irrelevant Trailer?
Shadow the Cats ownerWe have 10 empties that have needed to be picked up here at our SIT yard
What does SIT mean? (Although, if pronounced lke an acronym, it seems to perhaps explain itself!)
Stuck in transit
Sitting In TheWay
Stopped in timelessness
Sorta idling there
Stupid Incidence of track-blocking
So inconvenient there
So, it's traveling?
Situation I'm tolerating
Sabotaged, I'm told
We are living in a 'Gotcha' world.
Lets not leave out the attorneys who, after defending the RR's from lawsuits without merit, create the language which industrial clients are requested to sign.
Those 'hometown juries' award damages that the big rich railroad has to pay. Many issues involved with this subject.
MJ4562 Would it be fair to say that the biggest obstacle to rail service for anything other than low value bulk commodities is timeliness of service rather than cost? Seems like rail service is fairly cheap once the the track is in place. Unless switch maintenance is that expensive? As far as the issue of Class 1 companies not wanting to deal with small volume shippers, would it be realistic for a short line to serve those customers utilizing trackage rights on the class 1 line? Or would that interfere too much with operations?
Would it be fair to say that the biggest obstacle to rail service for anything other than low value bulk commodities is timeliness of service rather than cost? Seems like rail service is fairly cheap once the the track is in place. Unless switch maintenance is that expensive?
As far as the issue of Class 1 companies not wanting to deal with small volume shippers, would it be realistic for a short line to serve those customers utilizing trackage rights on the class 1 line? Or would that interfere too much with operations?
(then again, we all have seen small business abandon leased building space because the landlord was too cheap to fix the driveways and common areas after the pavement resembles the surface of the moon and the surrounding area is an industrial wasteland.)
This thread is why I have been arguing how short-sighted and stupid PSR is. You will lose customers through no fault of your own. You need to keep and grow the customers you have.
MJ4562As far as the issue of Class 1 companies not wanting to deal with small volume shippers, would it be realistic for a short line to serve those customers utilizing trackage rights on the class 1 line? Or would that interfere too much with operations?
The Mohawk, Adirondack and Northern (MWHA) is based in Utica, NY and handles all the work in Rome, about 15 miles distant, via the Chicago Line (NYC Water Level Route) on trackage rights.
There's enough business in Rome that they generally make the trip daily, except weekends.
Of course, it's a GVT line, so trainwatchers get to see ALCOs at speed along the line...
MJ4562 I recall seeing comments in the forums aluding to the 1970s as a time when smaller shippers pulled up their rail sidings in large numbers. That appears to align with my observations as I recall seeing many abandoned sidings in the late 1970s - early 1980s. <SNIP> The common response is usually trucks, however, trucks had been around for 50 years at that point, so why then? Also with the fuel crisis I would think rail would be more desirable. Anyway, looking forward to any insights railroaders or shippers have as to this. Thanks.
I recall seeing comments in the forums aluding to the 1970s as a time when smaller shippers pulled up their rail sidings in large numbers. That appears to align with my observations as I recall seeing many abandoned sidings in the late 1970s - early 1980s. <SNIP>
The common response is usually trucks, however, trucks had been around for 50 years at that point, so why then? Also with the fuel crisis I would think rail would be more desirable. Anyway, looking forward to any insights railroaders or shippers have as to this. Thanks.
The local railfans joked that BNSF ran the local from Galesburg to Streator just for us. They literally would run a train 2-3 times a week of 2 engines and 5 cars each way to service our SIT track. We are the only local customer left in Streator. Then to throw the local railfans a bone so to speak they kept running a Warbonnet painted B-40-8W on the point each way for the longest time or a Santa Fe painted GP50. Now we get serviced by the 104 105 trains as needed that run from the Joilet Arsenal to Galesburg. As for your other suggestion. My boss has sent 2 letters out to both the CEO of NS and the other to the STB and our lawyers have sent a total of 5 one to their Legal Department threatening to sue for breach of contract 1 to their Marketing Department. 1 to their Operations Department another to Billing department charging them for car storage on our tracks and the last one to the STB also saying that we can not getting needed supplies for the pandemic due to the NS refusing to service a customer. They provide some of the medical grade resins we need and as of 2 weeks ago we have had to start trucking them in so we can blend them for our customers which means we can not haul enough to supply a PPE manufactor in this pandemic. I wonder how the STB let alone the government is going to react to that one. PSR is going to start causing a bottleneck in PPE equipment when this crap is cranking up again because the large quanities of a needed resin can not get delivered.
I do not believe BNSF customers are treated like this. Nor regional and short-line customers. All letter written by you and signed by your boss to NS's CEO seems overdue.
It also doesn't help that the Railroads especially the class 1's treat customer service like it is a black hole something never to be done. We have 10 empties that have needed to be picked up here at our SIT yard on the NS side of the operation. I have been trying to get a hold of someone at NS for the last 2 weeks to get them taken away. My emails phone calls have gone unanswered. Heck even my boss can not get anyone on the freaking phone. Yet at anytime anyone of our customers can call us during regular hours and within 2 mins tops have someone on the phone and have that person working on solving their needs and problem they are having. I hope this explains why industries also left the Railroads they flat out do not care about their small customers anymore. Unless your name is UPS JB or a major shipper and even then you might get ignored at times.
Back until about 1975 it was unusual to see a manufacturing facility or warehouse without direct rail access in my hometown of Sherbrooke, QC (a typical small town). In fact the only one that springs to mind is Canox.. they had a warehouse in the countryside with only road access.
A number of factors had conspired to kill off the spurs and branchlines that served shippers and receivers directly.. chief among them were 1) deregulation of the transportation industry..2) tougher environmental regulations 3) globalization which saw much of our traditional heavy industry move offshore where labor is cheaper and environmental regulations are for all intents and purposes nonexistent.
Some spurs have somehow managed to survive all that in addition to PSR. One such spur is CN's Fergus Spur which connects Guelph to nearby Hespeler.. There are only a handful of shippers and receivers on this little line.. and trains are generally 5 to 10 cars in length. But somehow it remains profitable or it has thus far escaped the attention of the OR bean counters.
mudchicken ... (and the "just-in-time" beancounter delivery mantra [blown-up and destroyed by CoVid-19] did away with the midstream warehousing of materials 25-50 years ago in most industries.)...
... (and the "just-in-time" beancounter delivery mantra [blown-up and destroyed by CoVid-19] did away with the midstream warehousing of materials 25-50 years ago in most industries.)...
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Georgia Pacific in Green Bay is planning a 1.1 million sq.ft. paper products warehouse to consolidate 5 area warehouses. No rail connection for it. The huge warehouse P&G built there for its paper products some years ago likewise has no rail. To think of all the boxcar paper loads that used to stream out of GB, amazing that it's gone. And no IM "ramp" in northeast Wisconsin, just seems crazy.
jeffhergert SD70Dude The freight that used to go to those warehouses in boxcars now moves in intermodal containers. Yeah, probably not. Jeff
SD70Dude The freight that used to go to those warehouses in boxcars now moves in intermodal containers.
The freight that used to go to those warehouses in boxcars now moves in intermodal containers.
Yeah, probably not.
Jeff
In my city the warehouse district gradually moved out of downtown to the outskirts of the city over the last 50 years. Those new distribution centres have only truck access, and many are clustered around CN's intermodal terminal.
We still ship a surprising amount of consumer goods, just not in boxcars.
Your results may vary in other locations.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Agree with Jeff - the lading (loads) tend to differ quite a bit. (and the "just-in-time" beancounter delivery mantra [blown-up and destroyed by CoVid-19] did away with the midstream warehousing of materials 25-50 years ago in most industries.)
Truck/ Rail separation tends to be a good thing. Dock heights have different height requirements* between railcars and trucks, plus paving-in track structure is a stupid idea that generally comes back to bite the building owner. (compounded by the stupid things that engineers and architects do to buildings on the rail side creating clearance fails that render the track illegal/unusable. ...and then there are the not too bright plant engineers and their legendary fails )
(*) Railroad = level 42" above top of rail vs. Truck= 48"to 55" above the ground....dock plates can only do so much.
jeffhergertYeah, probably not. Jeff
I get the impression you are dismissive of this Jeff. Why?
Consider a scenario where:1975 - Textile mill located in piedmont North Carolina produces several car-lots of heavy woolen sweaters for the fall seaon (and a carton stuffed with sweaters can be pretty heavy), loads them in 50ft DF outside-post boxcars and ships them to catalog store distribution centers in the northern US.1995 - Textile production contracted out to Honduras or the Philippines, so cartons of sweaters are packed in containers for shipping to the contential US, the containers are then loaded into well-cars and forwarded to the IM yard nearest to the store distribution center, put on a chassis and trucked to the center.
Jaw Tooth "But Wait, there's more!"2015 - Textile production contracted out to Vietnam (China's off-shore labor colony), cartons of sweaters packed into containers shipped overseas to the US, containers trucked from the docks to nearby (in relativel terms - say 50-100 miles, rather short distance for rail) distribution centers...and then DROPPED SHIPPED from the center via USPS, UPS, etc to buyers across the nation. The former distribution centers are now fitness centers and U-Store-Its...
MJ4562Would trucking deregulation have encouraged the building of those types of transloading facilities? What I am referring to is large freight warehouses with rail siding on one side and truck loading docks on the other.
I could be wrong, but I believe the main driving force behind buildings being configured that way, was generally so that the box cars did not block access to the truck docks? For the most part, bay spacing is considerably longer for boxcars than for trucks, and boxcars tend to sit where placed until the railroad comes back for them. Not really very efficient if you have trucks waiting for the box cars to be moved before they can get dock access. So if you are going to have a building served by both, you give one side of the building to the trains, and the other side to trucks. Deregulation really doesn't factor into it in any major way.
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