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Railroading in 2040

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, October 12, 2020 4:35 PM
 

Flintlock76

 

 
Overmod
Chicago Manual of Style

 

The WHAT?  

Sounds a bit uppity coming from people who don't know how to make a decent pizza, or hot dog for that matter!  Wink  Pizza  

You want real pizza and hot dogs?  Take a ride with "The Boss."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRXhDQXhdXE  

Brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it, and that's no joke!

 

I can't lie I'm partial to Chicago style pizza. Just one of those modifications that can easily satisfy this Midwesterner Big Smile

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, October 12, 2020 4:38 PM

Lithonia Operator

I actually own a physical copy of the Chicago Manual of Style. It's thick. All it takes is reading a few pages before one decides to wait for the movie.

 

 Maybe it would be more interesting if it was a video game.... ?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, October 12, 2020 4:49 PM
 

Lithonia Operator

Within a few posts I suggested a few different possible scenarios, and here's another: Colin put the post up. Then he decided to submitted the piece to the magazine. The magazine accepted it. Colin independently decided that it would probably be appropriate to then take the post down, and he did. And Kalmbach never saw the post. This could easily be the case. I did not wish to counter the very polite and informative SD60MAC9500, but the fact is, Colin's putting up (and I paraphrase) the "I removed it, stay tuned" notice in no way proves that Kalmbach had seen the post. There are several possible scenarios.

Any and all objections are welcome. I say Trains knew due to a thread I posted some months back that was not a railroad related topic. I wanted to test the sites mod enforcement, and see if they do check here from time to time. I created a thread called: The future of deglobalization, and it's impact on the economy. Or something along that line.. I wrote a paragraph on what I presume to be events going forward. Along with how they might change nation dynamics when it comes to trade. The thread was deleted from the GD forum within 10 mins of posting it. Which gave me all the info I needed to know about moderation on the forum and rule enforcement. Hence why I say someone from Trains scanned the forum and came across Northwest 2048 vision and thought it was a good piece to put in a future column. Of course this is just my opinion.

 
 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, October 12, 2020 5:03 PM

That's as plausible a scenario as most others.

Interesting about your covert test. You rascal, you.

Do you get Trains? Maybe they took your post down so they could publish it the magazine. Check back issues.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, October 12, 2020 5:14 PM

Sticking to the topic,  I seriously doubt if we will hear anything more from Colin on here, if we ever did. 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, October 12, 2020 5:18 PM
 

Lithonia Operator

That's as plausible a scenario as most others.

Interesting about your covert test. You rascal, you.

Do you get Trains? Maybe they took your post down so they could publish it the magazine. Check back issues.

 

One thing in life I learned sometimes you gotta push limits to understand your limits. Yes I get the digital version. That would be funny if they did. 

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, October 12, 2020 5:37 PM

charlie hebdo

Sticking to the topic,  I seriously doubt if we will hear anything more from Colin on here, if we ever did. 

 



I agree.

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Posted by M636C on Monday, October 12, 2020 6:59 PM

Lithonia Operator wrote

Peter, do you have inside info that Trains asked for the name change to get to an even of 20 years? Or are you just assuming that? (It does seem to be a good assumption, and nothing nefarious.)

It was an assumption on my part based on the titles of the other articles in that Issue of Trains. There was an article on the SD40 and derivatives (based only on the number 40) although clearly it was a very significant locomotive from the period, it could be argued that the U25 was more significant (but it didn't match the numeric pattern).

Looking at the contents page, the articles are:

20    page 12

40   page 20

80 for 80   page 30

Railroading in 2040   page 36

(That looks like a pattern to me...)

Colin has always referred to his post being dated 2048. His Australian version was dated 2050 (It could equally have been 2040 - we aren't always two years behind here)

In Australia, nobody believed that there would be a man on the locomotive in twenty years' time given current operations.

Peter

 
 
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Posted by M636C on Monday, October 12, 2020 7:19 PM

Lithonia Operator

 

charlie hebdo

Sticking to the topic,  I seriously doubt if we will hear anything more from Colin on here, if we ever did. 

 

 

 



 

I agree.

 

Colin has been a consistent poster on these forums for several years, so he must have started at a relatively young age. The posts have generally been on locomotive related matters.
 
I'm not sure that losing him, particularly if, as I've suggested elsewhere, there were changes made to his article that made it appear to be more derivative than it was, will be a benefit to the forums.
 
Recently I had an article published on the former SP SD40s operating on the BHP iron ore line from Port Hedland in Western Australia. I'd written the article nine years ago and forgotten it. The article was sent to me for approval just before press time and I insisted on a number of significant changes. Why? All the locomotives had been scrapped in 2014, well after I had written the article.
 
I had a similar experience with a different article (on a 1912 Consolidation type) for a different magazine, published eight years after submission.
 
It is lucky that my e-mail address has remained the same for so long... 
 
But trust me, the editor can change an article until it is unrecognisable to the author and I feel that this is not realised by many who post here.
 
Peter
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Posted by Erik_Mag on Monday, October 12, 2020 8:27 PM

Reminds me of a storefront on a layout showcased by MR ca 1970: Linn's Archive of Ancient and Altered Manuscripts. Linn being Linn Wescott who was the editor of MR at the time.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, October 12, 2020 9:07 PM

M636C

Lithonia Operator wrote

Peter, do you have inside info that Trains asked for the name change to get to an even of 20 years? Or are you just assuming that? (It does seem to be a good assumption, and nothing nefarious.)

It was an assumption on my part based on the titles of the other articles in that Issue of Trains. There was an article on the SD40 and derivatives (based only on the number 40) although clearly it was a very significant locomotive from the period, it could be argued that the U25 was more significant (but it didn't match the numeric pattern).

Looking at the contents page, the articles are:

20    page 12

40   page 20

80 for 80   page 30

Railroading in 2040   page 36

(That looks like a pattern to me...)

Colin has always referred to his post being dated 2048. His Australian version was dated 2050 (It could equally have been 2040 - we aren't always two years behind here)

In Australia, nobody believed that there would be a man on the locomotive in twenty years' time given current operations.

Peter

 
 
 

Thanks, man. I had no idea you were in Australia!

Really, seeing now what you've shown re the numbers, I'm more than willing to bet that's exactly what happened. Good analysis.

So the Aussies all felt there would be zero human crew by then?

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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, October 12, 2020 9:23 PM

M636C

 

 
Lithonia Operator

 

charlie hebdo

Sticking to the topic,  I seriously doubt if we will hear anything more from Colin on here, if we ever did. 

 

 

 



 

I agree.

 

 

 

Colin has been a consistent poster on these forums for several years, so he must have started at a relatively young age. The posts have generally been on locomotive related matters.
 
I'm not sure that losing him, particularly if, as I've suggested elsewhere, there were changes made to his article that made it appear to be more derivative than it was, will be a benefit to the forums.
 
Recently I had an article published on the former SP SD40s operating on the BHP iron ore line from Port Hedland in Western Australia. I'd written the article nine years ago and forgotten it. The article was sent to me for approval just before press time and I insisted on a number of significant changes. Why? All the locomotives had been scrapped in 2014, well after I had written the article.
 
I had a similar experience with a different article (on a 1912 Consolidation type) for a different magazine, published eight years after submission.
 
It is lucky that my e-mail address has remained the same for so long... 
 
But trust me, the editor can change an article until it is unrecognisable to the author and I feel that this is not realised by many who post here.
 
Peter
 

I hear you.

Often when articles are cut (and most stories I've had published were shortened, some quite substantially), things can get really skewed.

I can't remember now what the scenario was, but once a paragraph of mine was edited down so much that the main point of it completely vanished, and what was left almost seemed to be making the opposite point. It was one of the first times I got published, and I can still remember how disappointed and frustrated I felt.

I sure hope this gets settled to the satisfaction of Don, and that there were only honest mistakes made.

IIRC, I've had some pleasant interactions with Northwest on this board, and I hope he's not feeling kicked in the gut if in fact this resulted from honest misunderstandings.

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, October 22, 2020 3:37 PM

Heard back from Jim Wrinn.  Most likely going to put a blurb in the next magazine issue saying Colin's article was inspired by my blog. 

I'm satisfied with that.   I hope Colin is sadder, but wiser and keeps writing!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by MMLDelete on Friday, October 23, 2020 11:57 PM

I'm glad you're satisfied with that, Don. You're taking the high road and that is to be commended. 

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:45 AM

oltmannd

Heard back from Jim Wrinn.  Most likely going to put a blurb in the next magazine issue saying Colin's article was inspired by my blog. 

I'm satisfied with that.   I hope Colin is sadder, but wiser and keeps writing!

 

I still don't know what this issue entailed.  You say the magazine will annonce that Collin's article was inspired by your blog.  What does inspired mean in this case?  That does not sound like infringement, plagiarism, or theft. 

By the sound of all the discussion here, I thought Collin must have duplicated word for word, what you had previously written and posted. 

Where is the wrong in being inspired and publishing your inspiration?

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:06 PM

Euclid
Where is the wrong in being inspired and publishing your inspiration?

Did you not read the links I posted?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:14 PM

zugmann
Did you not read the links I posted?

Hey, I've posted exactly those words to Euclid on more than one occasion.  You could at least acknowledge your sources. Clown

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:16 PM

Convicted One
Hey, I've posted exactly those words to Euclid on more than one occasion.  You could at least acknowledge your sources. 

A dark, shadowy figure.  Might have been Darkwing Duck?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:21 PM

My point being. If you lock 100 monkeys in a room with 100 typewriters, eventually at least one of them will complain about plagiarism.

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:28 PM

Convicted One
My point being. If you lock 100 monkeys in a room with 100 typewriters, eventually at least one of them will complain about plagiarism.

I fail to see your point - and I don't think Don or Kalmbach sees it, etiher, considering the outcome of this. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:31 PM

I am pleased that Don is satisfied with the outcome. That is all that really matters here.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:37 PM

Will 2040 be the start of 'A World without people?'

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:07 PM

What links?  I have read a thousand definitions of plagiarism.  It gets really fascinating when it comes to self-plagiarism.  But I would need the two contested texts side by side to judge the crime.  From the reaction, I assume that two texts were idendtical.  Maybe that is what inspired the charge.   

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:10 PM

zugmann

You can easily compare both.  Don linked his blog in the first post in this thread, and the article is in the November issue. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by MMLDelete on Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:18 PM

Read the articles?!?!?

What a concept!!!!!!!  Bow

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, October 24, 2020 2:03 PM

I saw Don's blog piece, but I don't have the magazine. 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, October 24, 2020 8:24 PM

Euclid

What links?  I have read a thousand definitions of plagiarism.  It gets really fascinating when it comes to self-plagiarism.  But I would need the two contested texts side by side to judge the crime.  From the reaction, I assume that two texts were idendtical.  Maybe that is what inspired the charge.   

 

https://uclalibrary.github.io/research-tips/workshops/avoiding-plagiarism/

 

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, October 25, 2020 11:41 AM

All I am asking is whether inspiration can be plagiarism.  I ask because the conclusion of this thread seems to be that Colin committed plagiarism by being inspired by Don’s blog. 

Inspiration is the spontaneous mental reception of ideas and claiming them as your own.  Plagiarism is the conscious copying of someone else’s ideas and claiming of them as your own. 

When person “A” claims ideas that appear similar to ideas claimed by person “B”, how do you know weather person “A” received the ideas through plagiarism, or received them through inspiration?  Or is it the crime of plagiarism either way?  If the answer is yes, then that means that a person can commit plagiarism without and intention of doing so, or any awareness of having done so.

According to references I find, the answer is yes.  That is that whether given ideas come to a person through their personal inspiration-or-- by copying the ideas of others, it is the wrongdoing of plagiarism either way if another person had conceived of the ideas earlier.  In other words accidental, unintentional plagiarism is just as wrong as intentional plagiarism.   

This would mean that ideas that come to people solely from their own consciousness are not their ideas until they research the entire history of time and space to make sure that someone else did not receive those same ideas from their own consciousness at an earlier date. 

 

Unintended or Accidental Plagiarism:

https://secure.tlc.ontariotechu.ca/academic_integrity/module5/module52.html

 

Inspirational Plagiarism:

https://www.christopherfielden.com/short-story-tips-and-writing-advice/inspiration-or-plagiarism.php

 

The Difference between Inspiration and Plagiarism; and Dancing on the Head of a Pin:

https://dailyblogtips.com/the-difference-between-inspiration-and-plagiarism/#:~:text=How%20to%20Distinguish%20Between%20Inspiration,its%20logic%2D%20you%20are%20inspired

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Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, October 25, 2020 12:27 PM

Euclid
This would mean that ideas that come to people solely from their own consciousness are not their ideas until they research the entire history of time and space to make sure that someone else did not receive those same ideas from their own consciousness at an earlier date. 

That is an interesting point, considering that most of what we know, we learned from others.

if I write  2+2=4 .....on one side you could say that the mathematical expression is public domain. But, if i gained that knowledge through a copyrighted source, for instance a text book, why should I not be expected to say:

2+2=4*

(* Introductory Arithmatic: Harcourt, Brace, & World 1963)

Certainly walks like a duck

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, October 25, 2020 12:52 PM

Convicted One
...

if I write  2+2=4 on one side you could say that the mathematical expression is public domain. But, if i gained that knowledge through a copyrighted source, for instance a text book, why should I not be expected to say:

2+2=4*

(* Introductory Arithmatic: Harcourt, Brace, & World 1963)

Certainly walks like a duck

You are not giving proper authentication to the other 2002 Arithmatic books that have been published and copyrighted with the same statements.

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