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Trump to OK railroad to Alaska Locked

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 1, 2020 12:30 PM

CMStPnP
Also, lets allow some of the Western Canadian Provinces to apply for statehood in our Union.   I don't think that is such a bad idea either. 

Somehow I don't think there will be many applications at the moment.  

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 1, 2020 12:54 PM

zugmann
 
CMStPnP
Also, lets allow some of the Western Canadian Provinces to apply for statehood in our Union.   I don't think that is such a bad idea either.  

Somehow I don't think there will be many applications at the moment.  

I am wondering how many of the Western US states would want to defect to Canada?

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, October 1, 2020 12:57 PM

BaltACD
I am wondering how many of the Western US states would want to defect to Canada?

CAREFUL!!  You know how touchy some people here get over mention of States Rights.Mischief

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 1, 2020 1:12 PM

Convicted One
CAREFUL!!  You know how touchy some people here get over mention of States Rights.

The same people that argue that Alaska should be forced to be more of a state or something?  

 

Whistling

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, October 1, 2020 1:56 PM

I'm still a little overwhelmed trying to figure out where to put all the fuel stops for our Shanghai-Seattle container trains. 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, October 1, 2020 2:43 PM

BaltACD
 
zugmann
 
CMStPnP
Also, lets allow some of the Western Canadian Provinces to apply for statehood in our Union.   I don't think that is such a bad idea either.  

Somehow I don't think there will be many applications at the moment.  

 

I am wondering how many of the Western US states would want to defect to Canada?

 

Don't forget about Montana. They'd like to be their own country.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, October 1, 2020 2:53 PM

daveklepper

Is it all-season service?

I may have been under the misconception that there are Winter problems.

 

The two main ports, Anchorage and Valdez (end of the Alaska pipeline) operate year-round. The warm ocean winds keep the south coast warmer than the rest of the state. In wintertime, it’s colder where I live on the upper plains than where I lived a half hour north of Anchorage.

Trivia: In Alaska, they pronounce it Valdeeze.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, October 1, 2020 2:58 PM

CMStPnP
 
daveklepper
And a rail connection to Alaska might benefit the whole country, but this also requires a good economic analysis.

 

We do as a country need to STOP thinking of Alaska as a National Park and start developing it as a state.  Rail connection is a logical choice and over time would drive down transportation costs as the state grew.    I just can't see a fleet of ocean going ferries keeping up with the demands of a growing state efficiently if we shifted towards a more pro-growth stance for Alaska.    I think the current ferry connection is outdated and is a major impediment to growth for the state.    Some people like the status quo and have no issues with it.    However, that position is rather unfair for the folks that live there.     I think we should let Alaska grow and stop the status quo nonsense...........which I might add, none of the other 49 states have had to contend with.

Also, lets allow some of the Western Canadian Provinces to apply for statehood in our Union.   I don't think that is such a bad idea either. 

 

I think you don't have a very good concept of what Alaska is.

Food for thought:

Alaska is 663,300 square miles- 2-1/2 times the size of Texas.

40% (291,538) people out of 731,545 in the state live in Anchorage. The only other 'cities' are Fairbanks and Juneau at about 31-32,000 people.

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Posted by cx500 on Thursday, October 1, 2020 3:04 PM

I'm somewhat baffled at the folks who justify the railroad as being faster than the marine highway.  If speed is the concern, the existing highway will serve the purpose quite adequately, just as the highways do everywhere else in North America for many commodities.  Many of us do criticise the rails for having little interest in pursuing this business of course.  The Alaska Highway will almost certainly continue to be primary way any groceries come north, even if the railroad is built.

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Posted by Gramp on Thursday, October 1, 2020 3:39 PM

Having friends who live in Anchorage, I do know goods are very expensive there.  And Alaska is considered the last vestige of the frontier for the U.S. Don't know whether a rail connection with the rest of North America would make a measurable difference. I recall Kneiling at the time thinking oil by rail to the Midwest would be beneficial since that was the most lucrative market for it. Glad I don't have to bet on what the future holds. Heck, if Biden wins, I probably won't have to spend any time voting going forward. The country will be Chicago-machine style one party rule. Checks and balances down for the count. Black Eye

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, October 1, 2020 3:45 PM

And why is it that NKP gets jumped on for his anti-Trump remarks while you get to rant on Chicago and Biden?   Political and social clear double standard. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 1, 2020 3:49 PM

Gramp
Having friends who live in Anchorage, I do know goods are very expensive there.  And Alaska is considered the last vestige of the frontier for the U.S. Don't know whether a rail connection with the rest of North America would make a measurable difference. I recall Kneiling at the time thinking oil by rail to the Midwest would be beneficial since that was the most lucrative market for it. Glad I don't have to bet on what the future holds. Heck, if Biden wins, I probably won't have to spend any time voting going forward. The country will be Chicago-machine style one party rule. Checks and balances down for the count. Black Eye

Can't you see Russia from everywhere in Alaska? [/sarcasm]

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, October 1, 2020 3:49 PM

AK has less than 750,000 people yet it gets two senators,  same as CA or TX with many millions.   Time to make our representation in the Senate based on population.

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 1, 2020 4:02 PM

charlie hebdo
And why is it that NKP gets jumped on for his anti-Trump remarks while you get to rant on Chicago and Biden?   Political and social clear double standard. 

Animal Farm. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, October 1, 2020 4:20 PM

.

York1 John       

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, October 1, 2020 7:33 PM

It has been suggested that the rail link would help in developing Alaska's natural resources.  Most of the lumber is along the insde passage, which is far from the proposed route or any practical rail route, and much of which goes out on ships to Asia.  Theres lots of coal, but that is a contracting industry, and coal production has been hampered forever by royalty earmarks which seem untouchable.  Oil goes out by the famous pipeline and tankers.  As mentioned before most of the mineral wealth along the proposed rail line is in the Yukon where the route runs away from the Al-Can Highway, closer to Faro lead/zinc mine and other copper deposits.  The miners preferred routes are from the mines to the closest tidewater.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, October 1, 2020 9:37 PM

Asking a leading question for discussion purposes, with the southeastern terminus being Edmonton, what roles might CN have as:

Possible investor in the line

Possible operator of the line

Possible interchange partner of the line

Assuming, of course, that A2A gets built.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 2, 2020 12:55 AM

CS800:  I disagree about groceries if the RR gets built.

But many good reasons have been given on this thread as to why it will not be built.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, October 2, 2020 4:14 AM

cx500
I'm somewhat baffled at the folks who justify the railroad as being faster than the marine highway.  If speed is the concern, the existing highway will serve the purpose quite adequately, just as the highways do everywhere else in North America for many commodities.  Many of us do criticise the rails for having little interest in pursuing this business of course.  The Alaska Highway will almost certainly continue to be primary way any groceries come north, even if the railroad is built.

Above is a very good example of keep the status quo reasoning but misses on the major points........

The rails are not persuing the business for the same reason they did not initially build West without massive government incentive.    It was only once the markets had matured a bit and had been proven that you saw rail companies forgo the rail grants and purchase the ROW themselves.   Railroads need to see a 20-30 year payback for their initial investment because in the past you can see what happened to railroads that took a gamble and bet the farm on an overly rosey forecast (Milwaukee Road and I might also say had it not been for BN, we probably would have lost NP as well).

It's cheaper, faster and more of an all weather alternative.    Sea going barges require fair weather just like the current Great Lake ferries do.   Rough seas = No sail.    And since the transit time is in days vs hours between Seattle and Alaska, whats the impact of one day of rough seas as far as recovery time as far as the logistical chain is concerned?

I very seriously doubt the sea based system would work if Alaska went on a development binge because I am not sure how expandable some of those ports really are.   Some of them look rather constrained land use wise from the air.   So one can conclude the sea based system is probably only working now because the population of Alaska is so small and there hasn't been a development focus on the state.   Which again begs the question why the state has been ignored for so long.

If you look closer at Alaska, it actually is suffering from lack of infrastructure development.    Many communities do not have a hospital or even an acceptable medical clinic, patients have to travel long distances in a lot of cases.   The Alaska phone company is barely profitable and loses money some years.   Viability of the Alaska Railroad is actually open to question it shows a profit in some years because it can count a direct subsidy as a profit as well as it's extensive land and property leasing.    Rail operations for the Alaska Railroad does not seem to be enough to sustain it currently, it needs more traffic.   Roads and highways are both underdeveloped or lacking all together in some cases.   Not too much different than the Russian Far East.    Except in the Russian Far East the Russian government has recently spent decent money on large scale infrastructure projects.   In and around Vladivostok for example with their bridge program in 2012.   Russia could do better of course with Asian investment if it settled some political disputes like the Kuril islands for example.

Russian investments to it's Far East and American investments into Alaska could lead to a new trading gateway between the countries that would develop over time with a rail connection to Alaska as well as a more expanded railway network in Alaska.   A new gateway would add to both countries GDP growth and add to growth of Pacific Rim to an extent.

I don't think I am ever going to see it but I would like to see all the Federal subsidies being paid into Alaska to sustain it.   I know it pulls in a  lot of revenue from oil royalties but even in that case it seems to not reinvest a lot of those oil revenues into the state via infrastructure.   The state still seems to lean heavily on the Feds for big projects.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 2, 2020 4:42 AM

charlie hebdo
Time to make our representation in the Senate based on population.

It seems to have slipped your mind that the purpose of a Senate in our bicameral legislature is to provide equal representation for states, to balance the proportional representation (and potential dictatorship of a majority) represented by the House (which has membership elected proportional to population).  

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, October 2, 2020 8:35 AM

Overmod
It seems to have slipped your mind that the purpose of a Senate in our bicameral legislature is to provide equal representation for states, to balance the proportional representation (and potential dictatorship of a majority) represented by the House (which has membership elected proportional to population).  

Ha-ha, Chicago at the United States Federal level.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, October 2, 2020 8:40 AM

Overmod

 

 
charlie hebdo
Time to make our representation in the Senate based on population.

 

It seems to have slipped your mind that the purpose of a Senate in our bicameral legislature is to provide equal representation for states, to balance the proportional representation (and potential dictatorship of a majority) represented by the House (which has membership elected proportional to population).  

 

 

Hardly.  The Senate was established primarily to protect the  slave-holding states from losing that peculiar institution and secondarily to continue with the idea that the original 13 states were sovereign nations.   Now we have the quasi-dictatorship of a petulant minority. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, October 2, 2020 10:10 AM

Keep in mind that it would take a constitutional amendment to alter the configuration of the Senate.  The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

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Posted by alphas on Friday, October 2, 2020 11:03 AM

 

"AK has less than 750,000 people yet it gets two senators,  same as CA or TX with many millions.   Time to make our representation in the Senate based on population."

Doing what you say or using the popular vote to elect a president guarantees a one political party US since the Democratic party receives 90% of the vote in major cities.   Madison anticipated that which is why he pushed the electorial college as a compromise between those who wanted pure democracy and those who wanted each state to have an equal vote.  
 
One party countries have not had a good record at all of providing democracy for all of their citizens.    In my days as a student we were taught that the reason the American revolution succeeded when so many others failed (the French revolution was used as a prime example) was due to its founders having the foresight to go with a Constitution Republic rather than a true democracy.    As a result all US citizens have some basic protections even if they belong to a political minority.
 
The good news is that to accomplish either of those actions needs a constitutional amendment which requires approval by two thirds of the states.   
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Posted by Convicted One on Friday, October 2, 2020 11:08 AM

I just hope we will have the Supreme Court settled by election day. Pirate 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Friday, October 2, 2020 12:05 PM

charlie hebdo

The Senate was established primarily to protect the  slave-holding states from losing that peculiar institution and secondarily to continue with the idea that the original 13 states were sovereign nations.

At the time the Constitution was written and ratified, the biggest area for creating new states was the territory covered by the Northwest Ordnance of 1787. This was passed by Congress under the Articles of Confederation. This law explicitly stated that slavery was prohibited in any states created from the Northwest Territory.

It is kind of funny to realize that one of the most impactful laws in the history of the US was enacted during the short life of the Articles of Confederation.

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Posted by alphas on Friday, October 2, 2020 12:10 PM

 

I just hope we will have the Supreme Court settled by election day. Pirate 

 

Based on Biden refusing to answer the question as to whether he will go along with enlarging the Supreme Court I doubt that's going to be the case.    My opinion is that was the most significant political news that emerged from the debate.   

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Posted by Convicted One on Friday, October 2, 2020 12:19 PM

I can see no useful benefit to expanding the court, other than to mollify sore losers.

The court has been working fine up till now, why break what works?

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Posted by alphas on Friday, October 2, 2020 12:23 PM

 

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hardly.  The Senate was established primarily to protect the  slave-holding states from losing that peculiar institution and secondarily to continue with the idea that the original 13 states were sovereign nations.   Now we have the quasi-dictatorship of a petulant minority. 

Actually, at the time of the ratification of the Constitution, you had basically 4 larger population states  [NY, PA, MA, VA] that the remaining 9 states were all leary of.   Those 9 were supportive of the 2 Senate members per state--which for many years were appointed by the state legislatures as opposed to today's being directly elected.
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Posted by n012944 on Friday, October 2, 2020 12:27 PM

charlie hebdo

And why is it that NKP gets jumped on for his anti-Trump remarks while you get to rant on Chicago and Biden?   Political and social clear double standard. 

 

 

 

Why is it that you said nothing about NKP's anti Trump rant, but say something about Gramp's Biden rant?  Political double standard by yourself.

 

Could it be that nobody said anything to Gramp because they were worried they would be accused of having an "explosion" or "temper tantrum"?  After all, that is what the person who "jumped" on NKP was accused of....

An "expensive model collector"

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