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Man In Wheel Chair On Tracks

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 1:02 PM

Overmod
Perhaps I wouldn't be so confident if there weren't several people who drive these things up and down and up and down in front of and around my wife's residential compound, without any particular care for people trying to enter and leave in cars.  Embeds the details in your mind after a while, it does..

Which reminds me of a number of people I've seen in wheelchairs or powered scooters (or variations of the same) behaving very  irresponsibly in parking lots, streets, crossings, or what have you.

While I try to be understanding and realize that given the choice they wouldn't be  in a wheelchair I can't help but think if it was irresponsible behavior that put them in the wheelchair to begin with.  

I know that doesn't sound very charitable but it does make me wonder, know what I mean?   Hmm

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Posted by MMLDelete on Saturday, August 15, 2020 1:46 PM

I haven't seen any reporting on this, but I'm assuming the wheelchair/scooter was demolished, right? And did the train stop? From what I could tell, that train was going very fast, and did not seem to be braking. In an incident like this, wouldn't the train be required to stop if the wheelchair was hit?

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 15, 2020 2:21 PM

Lithonia Operator
I haven't seen any reporting on this, but I'm assuming the wheelchair/scooter was demolished, right? And did the train stop? From what I could tell, that train was going very fast, and did not seem to be braking. In an incident like this, wouldn't the train be required to stop if the wheelchair was hit?

I feel certain the train did stop, but a big train at or near track speed takes time to stop be in Emergency or Service.  If the train didn't stop that would have been the second lead of the story.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 15, 2020 2:27 PM

Flintlock76
While I try to be understanding and realize that given the choice they wouldn't be  in a wheelchair I can't help but think if it was irresponsible behavior that put them in the wheelchair to begin with.

The truly 'irresponsible' people are the ones who make a business out of peddling these expensive things to everyone who Government-qualifies to be given one free.  "At no cost to you" as the Scooter Store ads put it.  Now, ADA mobility is a wonderful thing, and I with an 11% ejection fraction could surely get one... except everywhere I go involves climbing stairs where there are no elevators, or driving where dealing with a scooter in a converted van or vehicle would be far more trouble than it's worth.  Aside from the perception I can't shake that buying one of those things new is a ripoff, to the Government if not directly to me.  (I do have two, but I bought them for $50 each at my local Amvets thrift store 'just in case' -- and that sends the money to about the most meaningful place a sale of that kind would benefit.)

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 2:49 PM

I got a still from Mike of the man in the wheelchair stuck on the tracks which unfortunately I can't manage to link or insert.

However, the chair is parallel to the tracks, and one of the wheels is either stuck in the gap between the rail and the "ramp" and it appears  to have a flat tire, or maybe the photo just gives that impression.

It looks like instead of proceeding directly across the tracks the man in the chair turned for some reason and got the chair stuck.  

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Posted by SALfan on Saturday, August 15, 2020 4:04 PM

tree68

From what I could make out from the video, this wasn't your garden variety wheelchair, with skinny wheels - it was a motorized version.  Those usually have some pretty fat wheels on them.  In fact you can catch a glimpse of the rear caster wheels in the video.

Didn't watch the video and am not familiar with the motorized wheelchairs, so can't comment on them.  My mother-in-law used two electric scooter chairs during her last few years.  One of them was a big heavy thing with pneumatic tires about 3 inches wide and 8 or 10 inches in diameter, which would have no issues with a RR crossing approached at a 90 degree angle.  However, her other scooter was much smaller and lighter, designed to be broken down and the parts stowed in a car trunk.  It had narrow solid tires about 4 inches in diameter that would have had serious issues with a RR crossing even if approached at a 90 degree angle.  One's equipment has to be at least a part of the solution to the problem of RR crossings.

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, August 15, 2020 4:41 PM

The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness.  That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, August 15, 2020 5:25 PM

BaltACD
I feel certain the train did stop, but a big train at or near track speed takes time to stop be in Emergency or Service.  If the train didn't stop that would have been the second lead of the story.

You can hear the brakes taking hold in teh video.  Plus if you slow it down, you can see the pistons are all the way out on the cars. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 15, 2020 5:48 PM

Euclid
The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness.  That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, August 15, 2020 6:08 PM

BaltACD
 
Euclid
The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness.  That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.

 

 

Yes, something like that.  Maybe split them so there are two narrow, rotating segments that run on the roadway at the widest gauge, and then reduce the diameter a bit for the rest of the cylinder, so it clears the roadway, but is there to prevent the whole assembly from dropping down into the flangeways.  Then have the two rolling segments free of each other so they can turn independently and not scrub with so much friction on the roadway when they have to pivot as casters.  That would be similar to a lot of chair casters that each have two independent wheels.  They should be at least 6" dia. and could be sclupted out to reduce the massiveness. 

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 6:14 PM

Euclid

The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness.  That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.

There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device.  Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well.

If, indeed, there was a wheel stuck in the flangeway, it would suggest that he started across, realized a train was coming, and tried to turn around.  Given the time frame of the video, it's likely he'd have been better off just "goosing" it and getting across the tracks.

We've seen enough stories about motorists getting flustered at crossings to give this some credence.

And there's the possibility he was fouling the tracks on purpose, sorry to say.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 6:42 PM
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Posted by York1 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 6:50 PM

I know the discussion is mainly about the reasons the wheelchair was even in that situation.

The other part of the story remains that this policewoman did an amazing rescue of this man.  She was very close to losing her life trying to save his.

York1 John       

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:07 PM

Flintlock76

The guy's wristwatch corresponds to the time stamp on the photo

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:16 PM

York1
The other part of the story remains that this policewoman did an amazing rescue of this man.  She was very close to losing her life trying to save his.

Amen, Brother. Amen. IMHO, I bet she wasn't even thinking about the risk; rather she was focused on saving the citizen in peril. Good on her!

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:51 PM

tree68

 

 
Euclid

The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness.  That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.

 

There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device.  Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well.

If, indeed, there was a wheel stuck in the flangeway, it would suggest that he started across, realized a train was coming, and tried to turn around.  Given the time frame of the video, it's likely he'd have been better off just "goosing" it and getting across the tracks.

We've seen enough stories about motorists getting flustered at crossings to give this some credence.

And there's the possibility he was fouling the tracks on purpose, sorry to say.

 

You don't know he was suicidal. 

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Posted by MMLDelete on Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:04 PM

zugmann

Or you know, not have the crossing apparatus bolted in the middle of the sidewalk?

 

Really. The poor guy had to get around that by going into the roadway, which, he correctly ascertained, was not a great place to be. But then in turning to get out of the street, it made the front wheels be paralell to the rails, hence enabling one to get stuck in the flangeway.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:04 PM

He didn't say he was. Just was suggesting it as a possibility.

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:13 PM

tree68
 
Euclid

The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness.  That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.

 

There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device.  Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well.

 

 

Yes, the solution has to be simple.  Sometimes a solution can lead to another problem.  Bicycles get stuck in grade crossing flangeways sometimes.  But people using wheel chairs have special condtions that do not apply as much to bicyclists. Wheel chairs may be equipped with special wheels that can't get stuck in flangeways, but then those wheels may be deemed too bulky and disruptive even for slow moving wheel chairs.  Nobody would want 6" wide wheels on their bicycle.  So they may not want them on their wheel chair. 

Sombody may have mentioned this earlier, but here is an approach to provide shallow flangeways.  This seems like a credible approach to the mobility device hangup problem, but it also is promoted as self-cleaning flangeway that could benefit the rail traffic as well.

This link should be able open large views of patent illustrations of the cross section of these elestomeric fillers that can be simply pressed into place without taking apart the crossing.  It seems like a well engineered product that would be a realistic approach to serving a real need.  It is called a "Shallow Flangeway" and made by Polycorp. 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120000987

 

 

 

 

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:12 PM

Leo_Ames

He didn't say he was. Just was suggesting it as a possibility.

Exactly.

Among the other things we don't know is how often this gentleman crosses these tracks with this vehicle.  It could well be that he does so daily.  Perhaps he was not used to seeing trains at that time.

Unless there is a follow-up story, we know about all we'll ever know about the incident.

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:20 PM

Euclid
Nobody would want 6" wide wheels on their bicycle.

Never say never - "fat tire" mountain bikes have tires up to 5.5" wide...

Fat Tire Bike

From MBTR.COM

LarryWhistling
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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:56 PM

tree68

 

 
Leo_Ames

He didn't say he was. Just was suggesting it as a possibility.

 

Exactly.

Among the other things we don't know is how often this gentleman crosses these tracks with this vehicle.  It could well be that he does so daily.  Perhaps he was not used to seeing trains at that time.

Unless there is a follow-up story, we know about all we'll ever know about the incident.

 

Since you don't really know details,   why did you suggest suicidal intent rather than any of the other more likely reasons?  

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Posted by MMLDelete on Saturday, August 15, 2020 10:03 PM

The cop had to pull the guy off of the chair because it was stuck in the flangeway. If he was attempting to kill himself, he would have had no reason to get himself stuck; he would have just rolled himself out there and stopped.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 15, 2020 10:09 PM

charlie hebdo
 
tree68 
Euclid

The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness.  That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering. 

There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device.  Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well.

If, indeed, there was a wheel stuck in the flangeway, it would suggest that he started across, realized a train was coming, and tried to turn around.  Given the time frame of the video, it's likely he'd have been better off just "goosing" it and getting across the tracks.

We've seen enough stories about motorists getting flustered at crossings to give this some credence.

And there's the possibility he was fouling the tracks on purpose, sorry to say. 

You don't know he was suicidal. 

Railroads continue to be one of the means of choice for suicidal individuals - how they desire the railroad to kill them differs, there are a multitude of ways.

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, August 15, 2020 11:20 PM

Lithonia Operator

The cop had to pull the guy off of the chair because it was stuck in the flangeway. If he was attempting to kill himself, he would have had no reason to get himself stuck; he would have just rolled himself out there and stopped.

 

I agree.  I think the stuck wheel chair rules out suicide

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Sunday, August 16, 2020 4:51 AM

BaltACD
Railroads continue to be one of the means of choice for suicidal individuals - how they desire the railroad to kill them differs, there are a multitude of ways.

We seem to have one every month or so on the Coaster/Amtrak route through the costal cities in San Diego County, in addition to the "impaired" pedestrians. It's just brutal on the train crews and first responders.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, August 16, 2020 7:59 AM

The still images do appear to show not one, but two, wheels stuck in the flangeway, which does tend to rule out suicide.  

Without that information, suicide is a rule-out option.  That he had his back to the oncoming train is a consideration in that, in my mind, in that he didn't want to see it coming, if suicide was, indeed, his intention.

But, yeah, it's off the table for this incident.

Still unanswered is why he was perpendicular to what one would think would have been his route of travel across the crossing.

 

LarryWhistling
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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, August 16, 2020 8:09 AM

According to the CDC,  of the 47,193 suicides in the US in 2017 (#10 cause of deaths) half are by guns, then poison,  then asphyxiation.  #4 is "Other" representing only 7.8%. Suicide by train would be somewhere in that group,  but likely trailing fall from high places and drowning. 

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, August 16, 2020 8:16 AM

charlie hebdo

According to the CDC,  of the 47,193 suicides in the US in 2017 (#10 cause of deaths) half are by guns, then poison,  then asphyxiation.  #4 is "Other" representing only 7.8%. Suicide by train would be somewhere in that group,  but likely trailing fall from high places and drowning. 

But it does happen.

 

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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