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Chatterbox Summer 2020

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Posted by JoeKoh on Thursday, August 13, 2020 4:24 PM

good evening

Ns was clear after work.Took care of the yardwork.Matt is off to school.Glad tomorrow is Friday.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, August 13, 2020 7:18 AM

adkrr64
It just doesn't seem practical except in some limited circumstances.

The PSO model will work best in communities with relative light loads on both sides of the fence.  Once you get past a certain point, it's better to have dedicated forces in each field.  

LarryWhistling
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Posted by adkrr64 on Thursday, August 13, 2020 6:51 AM

tree68
blue streak 1
Tree:  At one time I seem to remember that some locations had police that doubled as firemen.  One fireman would man the station and its truck and police would dispatch directly to a fire with some equipment in the car's trunk..  Did that idea pass away ?

Still very much in existence around the country.  Everyone is trained/certified in both disciplines.  Some days you staff the fire station, some days you're out on patrol.

There are varying opinions on the concept.  I think some municipalities that went that route returned to conventional arrangements eventually.

With all of the training requirements needed of both disciplines in this day and age, it seems like it would be quite difficult for one individual to keep up with it all without spending substantial time away from the job itself. It just doesn't seem practical except in some limited circumstances.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 8:50 PM

blue streak 1
Tree:  At one time I seem to remember that some locations had police that doubled as firemen.  One fireman would man the station and its truck and police would dispatch directly to a fire with some equipment in the car's trunk..  Did that idea pass away ?

"Public Safety Departments"

Still very much in existence around the country.  Everyone is trained/certified in both disciplines.  Some days you staff the fire station, some days you're out on patrol.

There are varying opinions on the concept.  I think some municipalities that went that route returned to conventional arrangements eventually.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 7:06 PM

Tree:  At one time I seem to remember that some locations had police that doubled as firemen.  One fireman would man the station and its truck and police would dispatch directly to a fire with some equipment in the car's trunk..  Did that idea pass away ?

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 5:25 PM

zugmann
WE dont' have a volunteer sewer department... road crew... street sweeper has a paid driver.  

I've heard that "back in the day" you could work off part of your town taxes by helping with road maintenance.

Our town highway department has about a dozen employees who plow, mow, sweep, pave, maintain the equipment, etc., for that 80+ square miles.  They stay busy all of the time.

A national consensus standard calls for 15 firefighters to start an initial attack - if your FD runs less than a call a day (or even a call a week), it's hard to justify the cost of that many people, even spread over several townships.

Volunteer police do exist, usually to supplement the paid staff.

Some years ago, I computed the cost to implement a county-wide career-staffed fire department.  It was well over $13M at a time when the sum total of fire taxes county-wide was about $3.5M.

If someone has a solution, we'll take it.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 4:33 PM

zugmann
 
tree68
The alternative (aside from not having fire protection at all) is not very attractive, financially.  Just using straight time, ie, not including vacation and other benefits, the cost of a single four person crew at $20/Hr is over $700K a year - a real stretch for a department living on spaghetti suppers and boot drives. 

WE dont' have a volunteer sewer department... road crew... street sweeper has a paid driver.   

It's a 18th century situation that needs to change.  Believe me - I spent a lot of my years of a kid in a fire station (dad and older brothers), so I'm not blind to the challenges - but this current situation just isn't working anymore. 

Do the volunteer sewer and road crews etc. have their annual carnivals and weekly bingo as well as various raffles and 50/50 drawings to finance their works and continued operation. [/sarcasm]

My locale is served by a Volunteer FD - I have no idea how much time the volunteers put in in performing their duties - I can see where the 'volunteer' time in addition to their day jobs that keep their family housed and fed takes away from their family time.

I am also aware that 'paid' fire fighters don't have the easiest of duty cycles either.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 3:49 PM

tree68
The alternative (aside from not having fire protection at all) is not very attractive, financially.  Just using straight time, ie, not including vacation and other benefits, the cost of a single four person crew at $20/Hr is over $700K a year - a real stretch for a department living on spaghetti suppers and boot drives.

WE dont' have a volunteer sewer department... road crew... street sweeper has a paid driver.  

 

It's a 18th century situation that needs to change.  Believe me - I spent a lot of my years of a kid in a fire station (dad and older brothers), so I'm not blind to the challenges - but this current situation just isn't working anymore. 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 3:45 PM

zugmann
The volunteer fire/ems system just isn't going to work anymore unless we do some major rethinking of just about everything. 

The alternative (aside from not having fire protection at all) is not very attractive, financially.  Just using straight time, ie, not including vacation and other benefits, the cost of a single four person crew at $20/Hr is over $700K a year - a real stretch for a department living on spaghetti suppers and boot drives.

And you can't usually blame for citizenry as being too cheap to pay the price - many municipalities simply don't have the tax base.

My community is all volunteer, with two fire companies covering over 80 square miles land area and a goodly number of the Thousand Islands.  Our annual fire budget is just under $500K.  Adding a single paid company would clearly better than double that amount.  And we would still have to rely on volunteers or paid-on-call personnel to handle anything of any size.

Unfortunately, no one has come up with an answer, but a lot of people are looking for one.

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Posted by JoeKoh on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 3:27 PM

afternoon

Ns was clear after work.Matt was talking about visiting G+G on his way to college.Then G+G pull up in the driveway.I'm like whoa that was quick.Chores to do.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 11:10 AM

tree68
The volunteer fire service is hurting.   Changing family dynamics (two breadwinner households, multiple jobs, other commitments like kid's sports) have resulted in a serious shortage of willing and available volunteers.

My dad was a volunteer fireman.  Now when I came along, he was mostly retired from that and work, but with my older siblings - he was never around.  It was either work or fire company. 

My oldest brother was in the fire company, too, but when he started having his own kids - he gave it up.  He actually wanted to know his kids. 

The volunteer fire/ems system just isn't going to work anymore unless we do some major rethinking of just about everything. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 9:31 PM

In the great upstairs, Johnny just checked-in and sat down with snow-man and Mookie. They have to be smiling watching Amtrak #6 run BACKWARDS from near Genwood Springs back to Grand Junction. At least #6 can move (and #5 can turn around at Dotsero); The fires in Glenwood Canyon and the 111 Fire near Chacra have shut down I-70 all day. The only way into Aspen-Glenwood is over Independence Pass from Leadville where LCV truckers dare not go.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 2:26 PM

afternoon

Ns had MOW and cars uptown after work.Chores to do here.Last nights big storm fizzled out before it got here.The rain was appreciated.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 1:56 PM

adkrr64

Larry:

While listening to the county EMS on my scanner, the dispatcher sometimes (though not always) tells the responder to " use universal precautions". What are those, and what leads them to be called for?

Local protocol notwithstanding - masks and gloves, perhaps a full face shield.

The idea is to keep the patient's body fluids off the providers.  

These days, most call takers/dispatchers are asking COVID related questions as well as the standard who, what, when, etc.  Our dispatchers simply say that the answers to the questions were negative.  The advisory for universal precautions you are hearing may be an indicator that there is a possibility of COVID, and that the responders should plan accordingly.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Posted by adkrr64 on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 5:01 AM

Larry:

While listening to the county EMS on my scanner, the dispatcher sometimes (though not always) tells the responder to " use universal precautions". What are those, and what leads them to be called for?

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 12:03 AM

My late mother took a header some years ago.  Unfortunately, the medics paid more attention to her mishapen arm than the more serious injury - a fractured vertebrae in her neck.  She recovered from both.

Being a medic can take a toll on you.  PTSD exists in EMS, and back injuries from handling patients are common.  On top of that, EMS isn't legally deemed an essential service, like fire and police.  Many EMTs and paramedics work multiple jobs just to make ends meet.

Some volunteers are compensated, via various means.  Some get a stipend.  In some areas, what appear to be volunteers are actually part-time employees of the municipality, paid only when they respond.

In this area, a t-shirt or jacket has to suffice, as we receive no pay at all.

The volunteer fire service is hurting.   Changing family dynamics (two breadwinner households, multiple jobs, other commitments like kid's sports) have resulted in a serious shortage of willing and available volunteers.

On top of that are training requirements that never seem to decrease.  When I started here, a 39 hour course got you in the door.  Now it's 120 hours, and that's just so you can function on the fireground.  Add another 80-100 hours to get certified to enter a burning building.  Basic EMT is a semester-long course, and EMS personnel have annual continuing medical instruction to cover as well.

We appreciate your gratitude.  It is a special calling, and not everyone is cut out to wear the boots.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Monday, August 10, 2020 9:06 PM

I believe it take a special calling to run into a burning building and put oneself at risk for the sake of others as firemen (and firewomen) do. For all of them, I am grateful. Recently, my wife tripped on a sidewalk discontinuity and knocked herself out. I will never forget the sound when her head hit the concrete. Itmade me think of a the sound of a baseball hitting the bat on a home run. CRACK. The paramedics were there very shortly after calling 911. She regained consciousness before they arrived and tried to tell them she was ok but they ignored that (which was theright thing to do) And they had their PPE on and took her to the hospital. She was checked out and (as I tell her, she has a hard head) is fine No broken bone. A Paramedics job is not as dangerous as fighting a fire but it has risks for some of those they a. re called to help and in some companies, they serve as both firefighters and paramedics. And volunteers are special, while they may get some compensation, I don't believe they are in it for the money. I see them really wanting to help their fellow human beings. Thanks Larry.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, August 10, 2020 5:31 PM

adkrr64
...that the 911 dispatcher called out and which we all got to hear over the fire truck radios...

That is done here - dispatch trips the pagers and does a short "last call" message.  Many people hold it together until that point.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by JPS1 on Monday, August 10, 2020 12:18 PM

BaltACD
 And the Philadelphia Society definition only existed because of the PRR. 

Many of the PRR's executives lived along the main line.  I dated a gal from Radnor while in college.  Her father was a PRR VP of Marketing with a focus on coal transportation. 

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Posted by adkrr64 on Monday, August 10, 2020 11:21 AM

tree68
Attended the memorial service for a long-time member of a neighboring fire department today.  While sniffles could be heard throughout the entire service, and the designated grandaughter struggled to maintain her composure through her part of the service, perhaps the most moving part of the entire event occurred on a softball field.

A tournament was going on at said fields, and not once, but twice (due to the route the procession took) the girls (one team was local, the other from Syracuse) lined up on the baselines as the procession passed.  

You don't get much classier than that.

A few years back my nephew, who was a very active volunteer firefighter, passed away from cancer. Two things I distinctly remember were 1) the long line of his fellow volunteers coming to calling hours and passing hrough together and 2) the final tribute call (I probably have the term wrong) that the 911 dispatcher called out and which we all got to hear over the fire truck radios just before we departed from the church after the funeral. While not a volunteer firefighter myself, I continue to be awed by the brotherhood that seems to get developed among those volunteers.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 10, 2020 10:28 AM

Electroliner 1935
 
blue streak 1
Had to educate my son's teacher about theatre. instead of theater 

Back when I was in high school, I had to write a story and I wrote one about the PRR's Main Line My teacher (who my brother called "learing lens, leather lunged Lowe") gave me an "F" She only thought of the Main Line as in the Phlladelphia Society definition. If I remember correctly my dad "educated her" about railroads. 

And the Philadelphia Society definition only existed because of the PRR.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by JoeKoh on Monday, August 10, 2020 10:27 AM

morning

Matt's stuff moved to the college.He has to cross the Ns spur line to get to his room.Have chores to work on here.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, August 10, 2020 10:12 AM

Context is everything.  I've come up with a reasonable definition of many words and terms that way.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, August 9, 2020 10:35 PM

blue streak 1
Had to educate my son's teacher about theatre. instead of theater

Back when I was in high school, I had to write a story and I wrote one about the PRR's Main Line My teacher (who my brother called "learing lens, leather lunged Lowe") gave me an "F" She only thought of the Main Line as in the Phlladelphia Society definition. If I remember correctly my dad "educated her" about railroads. 

 

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, August 9, 2020 7:59 PM

Attended the memorial service for a long-time member of a neighboring fire department today.  While sniffles could be heard throughout the entire service, and the designated grandaughter struggled to maintain her composure through her part of the service, perhaps the most moving part of the entire event occurred on a softball field.

A tournament was going on at said fields, and not once, but twice (due to the route the procession took) the girls (one team was local, the other from Syracuse) lined up on the baselines as the procession passed.  

You don't get much classier than that.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by JoeKoh on Sunday, August 9, 2020 5:32 AM

good morning

On the way home last night Csx had sent a westbound with 1 engine.Well they broke down west of Defiance.So the crew had to go to Garrett and pick up another locomotive.Going to see what other things Csx is doing today.Tomorrow we move Matt's stuff to college.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 8, 2020 10:31 PM

Tree figured as much.  Was just trying to educate our newbies.

About different spellings.  Had to educate my son's teacher about theatre. instead of theater

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, August 8, 2020 5:13 PM

blue streak 1
NOPE !  Different spelling = different value  1 Tonne = 1000 kilograms

I know that - I was being sarcastic about the newswriter (and others in the news business) not knowing the difference....  Them furriners shore spell funny.

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 8, 2020 4:07 PM

tree68

Tonnes.  Isn't that just a funny foreign way to spell tons?  You know, like color vs colour?  

{Sarcasm intended}

 

 
NOPE !  Different spelling = different value  1 Tonne = 1000 kilograms

Convert units

Length Mass Temperature Speed Volume Area Time Frequency Angle Force Pressure Energy Power Electric Current Voltage Resistance Digital storage Fuel consumption
 
=
 
Kilogram Gram Decigram Centigram Milligram Microgram Nanogram Picogram Femtogram Dekagram Hectogram Megagram Metric ton Long ton Short ton Imperial ton Metric quintal US quintal French quintal Stone Pound Ounce Troy ounce Slug Tola Dram Carat Grain Atomic mass unit Kilogram Gram Decigram Centigram Milligram Microgram Nanogram Picogram Femtogram Dekagram Hectogram Megagram Metric ton Long ton Short ton Imperial ton Metric quintal US quintal French quintal Stone Pound Ounce Troy ounce Slug Tola Dram Carat Grain Atomic mass unit
FORMULA
for an approximate result, multiply the mass value by 2.20462262

1 ton = 2000 pounds

So 1 tonne  =  2204.62262 pounds approximately

2750 tonnes = 6062712.205 pounds =  3031.3561025 short tons.

Now to further complicate --  atomic weapon yields are measured in kilo tons of TNT.  So what is the conversion factor of explosive NAFO vs TNT by weight ?

Will provide answer in a couple days ?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 8, 2020 4:03 PM

tree68

Tonnes.  Isn't that just a funny foreign way to spell tons?  You know, like color vs colour?  

{Sarcasm intended}

 

 
Different spelling = different value  1 Tonne = 1000 kilograms

Convert units

Length Mass Temperature Speed Volume Area Time Frequency Angle Force Pressure Energy Power Electric Current Voltage Resistance Digital storage Fuel consumption
=
Kilogram Gram Decigram Centigram Milligram Microgram Nanogram Picogram Femtogram Dekagram Hectogram Megagram Metric ton Long ton Short ton Imperial ton Metric quintal US quintal French quintal Stone Pound Ounce Troy ounce Slug Tola Dram Carat Grain Atomic mass unit Kilogram Gram Decigram Centigram Milligram Microgram Nanogram Picogram Femtogram Dekagram Hectogram Megagram Metric ton Long ton Short ton Imperial ton Metric quintal US quintal French quintal Stone Pound Ounce Troy ounce Slug Tola Dram Carat Grain Atomic mass unit
FORMULA
for an approximate result, multiply the mass value by 2.20462262

1 ton = 2000 pounds

So 1 tonne  =  2204.62262 pounds approximately

2750 tonnes = 6062712.205 pounds =  3031.3561025 short tons.

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