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Using rail to market an idea

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, June 8, 2020 1:34 PM

Electroliner 1935

 

 
Convicted One
I have a friend who at one time lived in one of those all-steel houses that were marketed right after WWII.

It's amazing the number of places that rust will start in an "all steel" home after 40 years.

 

They were LUSTRON 

Per Wikipedia, "Lustron houses are prefabricated enameled steel houses developed in the post-World War II era United States in response to the shortage of homes for returning GIs by Chicago industrialist and inventor Carl Strandlund."..."From its plant in Columbus, Ohio (the former Curtiss-Wright factory), the corporation eventually constructed 2,498 Lustron homes between 1948 and 1950.[3] The houses sold for between $8,500 and $9,500, according to a March 1949 article in the Columbus Dispatch—about 25 percent less than comparable conventional housing."

There are a number in the western Chicago suburbs and I have not heard of any rust issues. The enameled steel design was used for gas stations and some other structures. The initial design was a small two bed home but the company didn't grow before they fell out of favor. The are hard to modify and if the family out grew them, they couldn't expand them. Fire resistant. Termite proof.

 

An Iowa grain bin manufacturer markets a steel house for developing countries.  They say it can easily be assembled and will last for 75 years.

https://www.sukup.com/safe-t-home 

Jeff

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 8, 2020 1:29 PM

Euclid
When I look at kitchens in ocean going tugboats, I see good kitchen design.

Some of the most fun I've had had been doing galley kitchens for New York apartments, in what might be less space than a good dining car.  You learn appreciation for good design and good storage there.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, June 8, 2020 1:24 PM

zugmann

 

 
Overmod
When the grandest spaces in a house become the master bathroom and the kitchen, something has gotten derailed.

 

There was an interesting article on kitchens I read a while back.  It's mainly becuase kitchens are the new social space - replacing dining/entertaining rooms.  Basically because it allows everyone at a meal to take part in the activities - i.e. the women aren't regulated to stay away in the kitchen.  

We can only hope there's a midddle ground between tiny house and mcMansion. 

 

Yes, the McMansions are horrible.  Not because they are what many consider too large, but more so because their look seems so disingenuous somehow.  They have the character of being insincerely oversold. 

Kitchens are indeed becoming the family focal point, and they also gotten also very expensive.  But when I look at trendy kitchens, I don’t good design.  Wood cabinets made like furniture are getting tiresome.  What I see is a kitchen being used to sell the customer the most material and features that are offered.  So they end up looking busy and gaudy.  None of the design elements go together.  They just compete for attention.  Every detail has this affliction.  Design-wise, it looks like amateur hour.  When I look at kitchens in ocean going tugboats, I see good kitchen design.    

 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, June 8, 2020 12:31 PM

Euclid
I am working on house designs that are compact, but not to the point that it interferes with living.  They will require foundations.  They include a series of features that enhance the funcionality of comfortable, convenient living.  They are highly functional with very high quality materials, components, and fixtures. They are more like precision machines for living, as opposed to an architectual fashion statement. 

My house is far from a fashion statement.  It was built in 1840, according to tax documents.  One and a half story, currently three bedrooms, plus a "bonus" room upstairs.  Full basement.

It is functional - the current dining room was also the kitchen until a new kitchen was added - in the late 1940's.  You can still see the patch in the roof where the cookstove chimney was.

The problem with "features that enhance..." is that eventually they go by the wayside.  It wasn't that long ago that having Cat5 in every room was the hot thing.  Before that it was a telephone drop in every room.  Many houses the age of mine are lucky to have one electric outlet in each room - surely considered a sign of the times at one point.

One thing about compact houses - or any house, for that matter - is that there is never enough storage.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, June 8, 2020 12:07 PM

zugmann
 
Euclid
I am working on house designs that are compact, but not to the point that it interferes with living.  They will require foundations.  They include a series of features that enhance the funcionality of comfortable, convenient living.  They are highly functional with very high quality materials, components, and fixtures. They are more like precision machines for living, as opposed to an architectual fashion statement. 

 

So basically how houses were built 50 years ago?

 

Maybe in some ways, but I would say not like houses have ever been built.  These would be compact houses, but scalable for any family size.   

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, June 8, 2020 12:01 PM

 

Overmod
When the grandest spaces in a house become the master bathroom and the kitchen, something has gotten derailed.

There was an interesting article on kitchens I read a while back.  It's mainly becuase kitchens are the new social space - replacing dining/entertaining rooms.  Basically because it allows everyone at a meal to take part in the activities - i.e. the women aren't regulated to stay away in the kitchen.  

We can only hope there's a midddle ground between tiny house and mcMansion. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:55 AM

zugmann
So basically how houses were built 50 years ago?

By Corb or Gropius, or Wright when he cared about material and human space.

Most conventional houses have a hefty dose of built-to-a-price and 'somebody else's social conventions' in them.  Little houses tend to be crackerboxes, bigger ones drafty McMansions full of weird quickly-obsolescent styles either in weird colors or execrable Architectural Digest twee decor.  When the grandest spaces in a house become the master bathroom and the kitchen, something has gotten derailed.

It's fun to see what modern tech and 'home control' can do to make a house genuinely convenient to live in while having a minimized 'social footprint'.  It can be even more fun to keep larger-house functionality in smaller plans and envelope sizes.  I look forward to seeing examples of what Euclid is doing.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:49 AM

Euclid
They are not my cup of tea.  But as a housing fad, they have been the most popular.  And they to tend to be adored by local governments who see the tiny house with its tiny footprint as being Earth-friendly. 

Poiopular because of the crap reality shows.  And most towns aren't going to want them - not enough tax revenue. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:45 AM

Euclid
I am working on house designs that are compact, but not to the point that it interferes with living.  They will require foundations.  They include a series of features that enhance the funcionality of comfortable, convenient living.  They are highly functional with very high quality materials, components, and fixtures. They are more like precision machines for living, as opposed to an architectual fashion statement. 

So basically how houses were built 50 years ago?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:44 AM

Murphy Siding
 
Euclid

Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House.  Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential.  However, that is less than what most towns require as a minimum size for houses which is typically 750 sq. ft.  Tiny house gets around that requirement by not having a permanent foundation.  And then with that objective met, you get the freedom of house portability.  

 

 

 

The tiny house thing is a quickly disappearing fad, seen only on reality TV anymore. They're not cheap to build . In the end, what's accomplished is building a high priced RV. The RV industry does that and does it better. Why reinvent the wheel? Most people who buy their first home are moving out of a cramped apartment with no storage. The tiny house concept would not appeal to most homeowners.

 

 

They are not my cup of tea.  But as a housing fad, they have been the most popular.  And they to tend to be adored by local governments who see the tiny house with its tiny footprint as being Earth-friendly. 

I am working on house designs that are compact, but not to the point that it interferes with living.  They will require foundations.  They include a series of features that enhance the funcionality of comfortable, convenient living.  They are highly functional with very high quality materials, components, and fixtures. They are more like precision machines for living, as opposed to an architectual fashion statement. 

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:36 AM

Murphy Siding
seen only on reality TV anymore.

Just like painting over beautiful brick fireplaces. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:28 AM

Euclid

Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House.  Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential.  However, that is less than what most towns require as a minimum size for houses which is typically 750 sq. ft.  Tiny house gets around that requirement by not having a permanent foundation.  And then with that objective met, you get the freedom of house portability.  

 

The tiny house thing is a quickly disappearing fad, seen only on reality TV anymore. They're not cheap to build . In the end, what's accomplished is building a high priced RV. The RV industry does that and does it better. Why reinvent the wheel? Most people who buy their first home are moving out of a cramped apartment with no storage. The tiny house concept would not appeal to most homeowners.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:16 AM

Euclid
Maybe so.  Althouth for those who are able to work at home, they can always add a tiny work space.  You just pull out a drawer, and there is your work station. 

Unless they work in a fireld where they need 3 computers adn 6 monitors. 

Be a big drawer. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:14 AM

zugmann
 
Euclid
Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House.  Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential. 

 

I think that trend will be ending quickly after our little experiment with Covid-19 and quarantines.  No room for storage of supplies and no room for people that may have to work at home.

 

Maybe so.  Althouth for those who are able to work at home, they can always add a tiny work space.  You just pull out a drawer, and there is your work station. 

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, June 8, 2020 10:38 AM

Euclid
Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House.  Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential. 

I think that trend will be ending quickly after our little experiment with Covid-19 and quarantines.  No room for storage of supplies and no room for people that may have to work at home.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by NittanyLion on Monday, June 8, 2020 9:55 AM

mvlandsw

I doubt that the typical freight car gets enough public exposure for advertising to work. Maybe commuter trains.

Mark Vinski

 

And even that is basically worthless ad space.  I remember DC Metro having a hard time attracting advertisers because things like buses and subway trains bleed into the background.  No one looks at them.  The two biggest ad buyers on them are the DC government and Metro itself.  That's not exactly the situation you want.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, June 8, 2020 9:44 AM

New ideas in housing always attract attention, but never catch on.  The new ideas come with new features that are the selling points, but all new features have downsides that are not mentioned and not realized by the unwary buyer.  

The feature claims for new ideas are comfort, low cost, energy efficiency, futuristic style, low maintenance, tiny, portable, and saving the planet with low a low carbon footprint.  And no thermal bridging

I once built a geodesic dome, but sold it before I ever assembled it on a site.  Domes were promoted for their ability to enclose the greatest volume with the smallest surface area, a claim with little merit for a home.  One of the latest house trend ideas is “resiliency,” which protects the house if we don’t save the planet.

Of all house types, geodesic domes are perhaps the most demanding of material quality.  Yet the original dome craze also included the use of scrounged materials to save costs.  This frugality included using axes to hack out the triangular sheathing panels from the sheet metal of junked car hoods. 

In general, a homebuyer is just murdered with the highest cost for the lowest quality construction.  And the building culture is not about to approve of any idea that just slight departs from their mainstream.

Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House.  Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential.  However, that is less than what most towns require as a minimum size for houses which is typically 750 sq. ft.  Tiny house gets around that requirement by not having a permanent foundation.  And then with that objective met, you get the freedom of house portability.  

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 7, 2020 11:27 PM

charlie hebdo
Another concept was Frank Lloyd Wright's "automatic Usonian" homes using formed and textured concrete blocks. 

The earlier 'textile block' systems were, to me at least, far more attractive and flexible than the Usonian designs.  These actually included instructions on preparing local material to use in mixing your own concrete for the blocks.  I won't go so far as to say Froebelian on a grand scale... but mind-stretching rather than doctrinaire for certain.

My greatest single conscious regret is not buying La Miniatura in Pasadena when I had the chance, in the mid-Nineties. That was, and is, one of the very best examples of both Weightisn design and use of the structural system.

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Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, June 7, 2020 10:14 PM

The thing about those steel homes is, you had to remain ever vigilant that you never made any modifications that brought about galvanic corrosion. Copper plumbing, groundwiring, the wrong kind of dryer venting,....could lead to serious regrets unless installed with knowing awareness.

When working on a house you tend to want to do a good job, and then forget about it. My buddy's house someone had installed a large VHF antenna, probably back in the 50's.And they did it with a large metal mast that went up a remote side of the house, and which was well grounded with a copper lead and ground spike. And there were a few points of attachment up the side of the house, for stability. Between the elements and the shade of neglected shrubbery, it turned into a problem by the early 80's. 

Of course once you discover the problem, it's beyond "minor" in scope.

Exactly the reverse with anything aluminum, the aluminum suffers.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, June 7, 2020 10:05 PM

Convicted One
I have a friend who at one time lived in one of those all-steel houses that were marketed right after WWII.

It's amazing the number of places that rust will start in an "all steel" home after 40 years.

They were LUSTRON 

Per Wikipedia, "Lustron houses are prefabricated enameled steel houses developed in the post-World War II era United States in response to the shortage of homes for returning GIs by Chicago industrialist and inventor Carl Strandlund."..."From its plant in Columbus, Ohio (the former Curtiss-Wright factory), the corporation eventually constructed 2,498 Lustron homes between 1948 and 1950.[3] The houses sold for between $8,500 and $9,500, according to a March 1949 article in the Columbus Dispatch—about 25 percent less than comparable conventional housing."

There are a number in the western Chicago suburbs and I have not heard of any rust issues. The enameled steel design was used for gas stations and some other structures. The initial design was a small two bed home but the company didn't grow before they fell out of favor. The are hard to modify and if the family out grew them, they couldn't expand them. Fire resistant. Termite proof.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, June 7, 2020 9:49 PM

Convicted One
I have a friend who at one time lived in one of those all-steel houses that were marketed right after WWII.

It's amazing the number of places that rust will start in an "all steel" home after 40 years.

When I attended Purdue, the Chemistry Lab was in a WW II era Quonset Hut made of what looked like large diameter culvert steel.  They were only 25-30 years old at them time - dank, rusty and smelly.  Doubt they still exist today - 55 years later.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by SALfan on Sunday, June 7, 2020 8:14 PM

Convicted One

I have a friend who at one time lived in one of those all-steel houses that were marketed right after WWII.

It's amazing the number of places that rust will start in an "all steel" home after 40 years.

 

There was one of those still surviving in Hot Springs, AR in 1982.  I looked at it when looking for a place to live there, but passed on it.  Just felt too much like living in a metal box.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, June 7, 2020 8:12 PM

There is a concept house at the Henry Ford in Dearborn, MI built using aircraft  construction techniques.  Clearly, the idea never caught on...

I would imagine that such a structure could be modularized.

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, June 7, 2020 8:07 PM

Two points:

The railroads' marketing departments lack the capabilities to market their own services,  let alone someone else's new product. 

Another concept was Frank Lloyd Wright's "automatic Usonian" homes using formed and textured concrete blocks. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, June 7, 2020 4:54 PM

I have a friend who at one time lived in one of those all-steel houses that were marketed right after WWII.

It's amazing the number of places that rust will start in an "all steel" home after 40 years.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, June 7, 2020 9:10 AM

Gramp

Here's a potential boxcar advertiser. 
Aerosol spraypaint manufacturers.  The copy could read, "Steal a can from your local hardware store today!" Big Smile

With said graphics added using "rattle cans..."

Although I've seen some that used a whole case...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, June 7, 2020 12:37 AM

Team tracks are largely a thing of the past and cross-dock operations would gouge the house in a boxcars buyer.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Gramp on Saturday, June 6, 2020 10:54 PM

Here's a potential boxcar advertiser. 
Aerosol spraypaint manufacturers.  The copy could read, "Steal a can from your local hardware store today!" Big Smile

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, June 6, 2020 10:22 PM

matthewsaggie

My grandfather had a house purchased from Sears and delivered as a kit in a single box car to the LIRR station in Oyster Bay NY.  

  Post WWII; Sears and Roebuck Catalogs carried a whole line of 'homes'. They were 'factory-built',  disassembled; and then loaded into railroad boxcars for distribution, and final assembly on the purchaser's site. 

 There is a small subdivision on the southeastern side of Parsons, Kansas; that still has a number of these houses, still in use.  They were deivered when the MKT RR still had their LTL car load operations ands consumer in place. 

Their wall construction was sort of unique; as it utilized a side wall construction techinque that had framed squares within. Not the usual[current?] wall stud construction, commonly in use today.(?)  

 

 


 

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Posted by mvlandsw on Saturday, June 6, 2020 10:01 PM

I doubt that the typical freight car gets enough public exposure for advertising to work. Maybe commuter trains.

Mark Vinski

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