SD60MAC9500 I'll throw out a what if.. If the C1's created an internal short line using human organization only.. Would they be able to pull off a non-union engineer to operate the former service?
Well if you look at history, such a subordinate entity wouldn't be too hard to hold and still give it the outward appearance of independence.... thinking of the labrynthine ways that people such as the Van Sweringens tied their empires up in paper.
Setting up a shell company or using an existing subsidiary (see Springfield Terminal) is going to work wonders with labor relations. The IAM blew the whistle on Burlington Northern when they tried power-by-the-hour leasing to skirt existing shopcraft contracts.
Convicted One There have been innovators before. Maybe it's time to re-re-think roadrailers? Or find some way to accomodate some industry that is not commonly thought of as rail compatible? Or find ways to reduce labor costs that make short haul more attractive once again?
There have been innovators before. Maybe it's time to re-re-think roadrailers? Or find some way to accomodate some industry that is not commonly thought of as rail compatible? Or find ways to reduce labor costs that make short haul more attractive once again?
RoadRailers had their time. CP had it right with Expressway.. Iron Highway type service is the way to go for SH IM.. The lingering problem as most know.. PSR doesn't focus on the SH. Second point.. Persuading the teamsters to negotiate for a one man crew to operate short fast regional IM service.. I'll throw out a what if.. If the C1's created an internal short line using human organization only.. Would they be able to pull off a non-union engineer to operate the former service? (Yes there will be pushback, but let's consider the possibility) Whilst using a 3rd party to market the service? APL Logistics? UPS? Maybe the C1's own internal 3PL??...
Overmod Toxic somlky shipped overnight in small cylinders from Carolina. Right. ... well, not exactly right. I get the idea, but you might as well have said it was widgets or foo.
Toxic somlky shipped overnight in small cylinders from Carolina. Right. ... well, not exactly right. I get the idea, but you might as well have said it was widgets or foo.
Johnny
Murphy Siding Are railroads allowed to own trucking firms?
Are railroads allowed to own trucking firms?
This reminds me of a time when my company was out of a certain gas--and the "local" (in Boise) distributor had none, so it had to be shipped from North Carolina. Being toxic, it had to come by ground transportation, and Our purchaser who handled such things was told that it was coming "Overnight," and she wondered how it could come overnight from North Carolina. I received it when it arrived--two small cylinders that constituted the entire load in the van.
Edited to make sense.
Paul of Covington I know how that works. I keep everything, knowing I'll need it someday. Trouble is when I need something, and I know I have it, I can't find it.
Not that I'm anticipating "leaving" any time soon, I've started considering what to tell the kids to do with my "stuff." I have several extensive collections of magazines for both fire and trains - as seen by the thread about someone trying to dispose of their Trains magazines, they could well end up in the dumpster.
I have some collectibles that were fairly expensive - but it's a limited market and they might be lucky to get a dime on a dollar on them.
And I have some art, too. No Mona Lisa's, but some limited edition prints and the like.
I don't know that I'm a full-fledged packrat, but I'm close...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Exactly
Electroliner 1935 It is too easy to aquire and difficult to shed "STUFF" but now we have to make choices.
I know how that works. I keep everything, knowing I'll need it someday. Trouble is when I need something, and I know I have it, I can't find it.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
tree68One thing about compact houses - or any house, for that matter - is that there is never enough storage.
We are in the beginning stages of getting out of our two bedroom townhouse and moving into a retirement community (apt.) And our sixty years of accumulation are now having to be reversed. The junk always seems fo exceed the space available. We have had one room apartments, 2, two bedroom apts, a small three bedroom and then a large four bedroom house before this townhouse. We have accumulated boxes of "STUFF" from both of our parents homes and my deceased brother's apt. It is too easy to aquire and difficult to shed "STUFF" but now we have to make choices.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
zugmann Convicted One Maybe beefing up the trailers to please zugman and taking a small hit on the highway capacity makes more sense than just letting the truckers have it? It's not capacity. Roadrailers were infamous for kickers. They couldn't have significant trailing tonnage. If they developed any issue along the way, you had to wait for the roadrailer people to respond (and most likely pull a trailer off). Had to be real careful putting them back together too - 2 safety stops to make sure the tongue lined up, else it was like a no-knock warrant for whatever was in the next trailer. The idea may not have been the worst, but the equipment wasn't the best. To survive out here - the equipment has to be tough. That is what kills many of these "new ideas for a new design of this super trailer that can self unload and load and has 45,000 hyrdraulic rams and electric motors".
Convicted One Maybe beefing up the trailers to please zugman and taking a small hit on the highway capacity makes more sense than just letting the truckers have it?
It's not capacity. Roadrailers were infamous for kickers. They couldn't have significant trailing tonnage. If they developed any issue along the way, you had to wait for the roadrailer people to respond (and most likely pull a trailer off). Had to be real careful putting them back together too - 2 safety stops to make sure the tongue lined up, else it was like a no-knock warrant for whatever was in the next trailer.
The idea may not have been the worst, but the equipment wasn't the best.
To survive out here - the equipment has to be tough. That is what kills many of these "new ideas for a new design of this super trailer that can self unload and load and has 45,000 hyrdraulic rams and electric motors".
Tree 68- I've toured the Dymaxion house at the Henry Ford museum. It's no surprise that people weren't willing to live in a shiny metal hamburger. But, regarding metal houses, at the end of the film, "The Best Years of Our Lives" when Dana Andrews character, Fred Derry is wandering around the airplane graveyard, the foreman said to him that they were being broken up for housing. It makes me wonder, were other companies going into the metal housing business? Aircraft builders weren't exactly flooded with new aircraft orders after 1945, were they? They needed something to build and likely get more government contracts.
zugmannHow will you serve all the little customers? Isn't the point to get more business?
**:PA announcement:** Mr Zugmann, please report to Bill Brosnan's office.**
Convicted OneMaybe beefing up the trailers to please zugman and taking a small hit on the highway capacity makes more sense than just letting the truckers have it?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Convicted OneBut how about finding ways to take locals completely out of the picture? (just for larger customers, of course)
How will you serve all the little customers? Isn't the point to get more business?
In any event, I'm really not interested in setting myself up as a target for you guys to throw "well that will never work" discordia at me. Experts that know what they are doing will have to be the ones to devise workable solutions.
If I remember my history correctly, the driving force that made piggyback work was that no one had the guts to tell Brosnan that it couldn't be done.
Murphy SidingWow! I read that as railroaders, not roadrailers. The conversation got real weird in my head after that.
Well, if I recall properly from Greyhounds, one of the big drawbacks of roadrailers is all the extra weight they have to pull around on the highway part of the trip,( the trailers alone have to be stronger if there is no well car involved) compared to with containers, it's the well cars that provide the strength
I can see a zero sum aspect in trying to find a happy median, and zugman is going to be unhappy if we make the truck trailers too flimsey.....but if making some compromises gets worthwhile volume back on the rails, maybe one vs the other would be worth it?
I guess it boils down to where one's priorities are? Whether the goal is to get volume back on the rails, or to grouse about lost opportunity?
Maybe beefing up the trailers to please zugman and taking a small hit on the highway capacity makes more sense than just letting the truckers have it?
zugmann Convicted One Maybe it's time to re-re-think roadrailers? Maybe make them not complete junk next time? Convicted One Or find ways to reduce labor costs that make short haul more attractive once again? A 3-man yard/local crew (engr-cond-brakie) can do a hell of lot more than one man on the ground by him/herself.
Convicted One Maybe it's time to re-re-think roadrailers?
Maybe make them not complete junk next time?
Convicted One Or find ways to reduce labor costs that make short haul more attractive once again?
A 3-man yard/local crew (engr-cond-brakie) can do a hell of lot more than one man on the ground by him/herself.
Okay, I'm with you on all that. Given your experience I believe you know what you are taking about. But how about finding ways to take locals completely out of the picture? (just for larger customers, of course)
zugmann Convicted One Maybe it's time to re-re-think roadrailers? Maybe make them not complete junk next time?
At the same time, the railroads could do a better job of teaching shippers what they do. Example: We have a rail spur. We buy a brand of shingles that ship out of Oklahoma. We tried to get the shingle company to quote us a price on a carload of shingles as they ship them from Oklahoma to the east coast all the time. They wouldn't give us a price as they assured us that they were on a different railroad than we were and that the two don't hook up! We convinced them that it was indeed possible. They quoted us a much higher rate by train than by truck. When I questioned them, their answers suggested they hadn't even checked into it. My conclusion: the shipper is quite ignorant and fairly lazy. Bonus points: The same shingle company ships carloads from Oregon into my city.
Convicted OneMaybe it's time to re-re-think roadrailers?
Convicted OneOr find ways to reduce labor costs that make short haul more attractive once again?
Murphy SidingMy feeling is that the railroads need to do what everyone else does when sales are declining- get out there and sell. To do that, they would need to hire sales people, teach them what the railroads have to offer, then turn them loose to find new customers. Good sales people with an incentive to sell are hard to beat.
Well, that was really my original intent with this thread, but when it quickly veered off into tangents about graphic arts and living spaces, I just concluded that I was unclear in setting appropriate parameters, so I just figured "if ya can't beat em, then join em"
But yeah, what I had hoped for was to say "Okay, here the housing industry reached out and incorporated railroading into their marketing plan (doing something different than was commonly attempted), so what's to keep the railroads from reaching outside the box as well? "(to offset the declining volumes everyone seems to notice, but offers few ideas to do anything about)
And then get out and do some shoe-souls-on-the-asphalt evangelizing, and actually grow the business, instead of the interminable whining about shippers not being willing to pay a justifiable price.
I've just seen too many lame straw men blaming the customers for declining market share...that is the death rattle fostered by lazy thinking,IMO
Murphy Siding Do you work in the housing industry? From what you are describing I presume you have read The not so big house by Susan Susanka? If not you need to order it today.
Do you work in the housing industry? From what you are describing I presume you have read The not so big house by Susan Susanka? If not you need to order it today.
I have seen that book, but it was a few years ago before I got so focused on this new house concept. But, you are right. I should buy it because I think it would fit right into my thinking and be extremely interesting at this point. I will order it. Thanks for reminding me.
I'm afraid that's a common problem for senior management at most all companies. A bigger issue is senior management that can't or won't deal with change. From what I see in my industry, those that want every day to be just like the day before tend to eventually stumble.
Murphy Siding Convicted One I found the following picture, which I thought some of you might find interesting. In the first half of the 20th century, "kit homes" were a popular idea for the do-it-yourself'er. One of the companies competing in that market prepared the following illustration to demonstrate that all the necessary items to build one home could fit into a (then) standard boxcar. I'm speculating, but my guess their intent was to expand the range of their market, from regional, to national. Once it's on a box car, it can go anywhere, not just across the basin. Since creative minds were once able to use railroads to market their idea, what is to prevent railroads from using ideas to promote their services. As we dwell on all this "spilled milk" we read about declining volume, isn't it about time the railroads re-engage their marketing minds and use ideas to promote railroading? Or are they just going to sit around bickering that "the only business we've lost is customers unwilling to pay a fair price"? My feeling is that the railroads need to do what everyone else does when sales are declining- get out there and sell. To do that, they would need to hire sales people, teach them what the railroads have to offer, then turn them loose to find new customers. Good sales people with an incentive to sell are hard to beat.
Convicted One I found the following picture, which I thought some of you might find interesting. In the first half of the 20th century, "kit homes" were a popular idea for the do-it-yourself'er. One of the companies competing in that market prepared the following illustration to demonstrate that all the necessary items to build one home could fit into a (then) standard boxcar. I'm speculating, but my guess their intent was to expand the range of their market, from regional, to national. Once it's on a box car, it can go anywhere, not just across the basin. Since creative minds were once able to use railroads to market their idea, what is to prevent railroads from using ideas to promote their services. As we dwell on all this "spilled milk" we read about declining volume, isn't it about time the railroads re-engage their marketing minds and use ideas to promote railroading? Or are they just going to sit around bickering that "the only business we've lost is customers unwilling to pay a fair price"?
I found the following picture, which I thought some of you might find interesting. In the first half of the 20th century, "kit homes" were a popular idea for the do-it-yourself'er.
One of the companies competing in that market prepared the following illustration to demonstrate that all the necessary items to build one home could fit into a (then) standard boxcar.
I'm speculating, but my guess their intent was to expand the range of their market, from regional, to national. Once it's on a box car, it can go anywhere, not just across the basin.
Since creative minds were once able to use railroads to market their idea, what is to prevent railroads from using ideas to promote their services. As we dwell on all this "spilled milk" we read about declining volume, isn't it about time the railroads re-engage their marketing minds and use ideas to promote railroading? Or are they just going to sit around bickering that "the only business we've lost is customers unwilling to pay a fair price"?
My feeling is that the railroads need to do what everyone else does when sales are declining- get out there and sell. To do that, they would need to hire sales people, teach them what the railroads have to offer, then turn them loose to find new customers. Good sales people with an incentive to sell are hard to beat.
Before hiring the sales people, I think you need to teach many in senior management what a railroad can do. Seems like there are many who need to read John Armstrong's "The Railroad. What it is, what it does."
Jeff
Larry, your mention of your house reminded me, to some extent, of the home of one of my sisters-in-law. It is on a farm in Monroe County, West Virgina, and I visited it in September of 1948 when my brother and she married. It was built in three stages that were built several years apart. The original building was a one room with a room over it. I am not sure if the stairway now in use was the original one--it comes down to a door on the outside. Some years later, a much larger structure was put up--two rooms that are separated by a wide hall with one room on the back and a stairway in the hall. Upstairs, there are a smaller bedroom at each end, two much smaller bedrooms between those bedrooms and the hall, and a bedroom over the downstairs bedroom. After a few years, the original structure was moved up in the yard and joined to the newer structure, and it became the dining room. Later, a kitchen was added to the end of the dining room, possibly with a porch on the far end, and the last addition was a storage room was built beyond that porch--all in one line. (The front porch is 80 feet long). There is also an attic in the second part. Oh, yes, there is also a stoop one one side of the back bedroom. The two really small bedrooms had no heat that I knew of, and the other rooms were heated by fireplaces or stoves.
At one time or another, I have slept in three of the upstairs bedrooms and the front room on the ground floor.
Euclid Murphy Siding Euclid Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House. Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential. However, that is less than what most towns require as a minimum size for houses which is typically 750 sq. ft. Tiny house gets around that requirement by not having a permanent foundation. And then with that objective met, you get the freedom of house portability. The tiny house thing is a quickly disappearing fad, seen only on reality TV anymore. They're not cheap to build . In the end, what's accomplished is building a high priced RV. The RV industry does that and does it better. Why reinvent the wheel? Most people who buy their first home are moving out of a cramped apartment with no storage. The tiny house concept would not appeal to most homeowners. They are not my cup of tea. But as a housing fad, they have been the most popular. And they to tend to be adored by local governments who see the tiny house with its tiny footprint as being Earth-friendly. I am working on house designs that are compact, but not to the point that it interferes with living. They will require foundations. They include a series of features that enhance the funcionality of comfortable, convenient living. They are highly functional with very high quality materials, components, and fixtures. They are more like precision machines for living, as opposed to an architectual fashion statement.
Murphy Siding Euclid Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House. Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential. However, that is less than what most towns require as a minimum size for houses which is typically 750 sq. ft. Tiny house gets around that requirement by not having a permanent foundation. And then with that objective met, you get the freedom of house portability. The tiny house thing is a quickly disappearing fad, seen only on reality TV anymore. They're not cheap to build . In the end, what's accomplished is building a high priced RV. The RV industry does that and does it better. Why reinvent the wheel? Most people who buy their first home are moving out of a cramped apartment with no storage. The tiny house concept would not appeal to most homeowners.
Euclid Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House. Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential. However, that is less than what most towns require as a minimum size for houses which is typically 750 sq. ft. Tiny house gets around that requirement by not having a permanent foundation. And then with that objective met, you get the freedom of house portability.
Probably the strongest new trend is Tiny House. Apparently, that concept is based on a unique convergence requiring a smaller size to reduce the cost by providing only the house that is actually essential. However, that is less than what most towns require as a minimum size for houses which is typically 750 sq. ft. Tiny house gets around that requirement by not having a permanent foundation. And then with that objective met, you get the freedom of house portability.
The tiny house thing is a quickly disappearing fad, seen only on reality TV anymore. They're not cheap to build . In the end, what's accomplished is building a high priced RV. The RV industry does that and does it better. Why reinvent the wheel? Most people who buy their first home are moving out of a cramped apartment with no storage. The tiny house concept would not appeal to most homeowners.
They are not my cup of tea. But as a housing fad, they have been the most popular. And they to tend to be adored by local governments who see the tiny house with its tiny footprint as being Earth-friendly.
I am working on house designs that are compact, but not to the point that it interferes with living. They will require foundations. They include a series of features that enhance the funcionality of comfortable, convenient living. They are highly functional with very high quality materials, components, and fixtures. They are more like precision machines for living, as opposed to an architectual fashion statement.
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