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Just me, crabbing about English again

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, April 27, 2020 6:47 PM

One thought I had was the context of the statement - although the OP did say it was the opening sentence in the article (I can't find that issue).  If the writer had already placed himself in the location, the sentence isn't as bad as it was.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 27, 2020 6:39 PM

BaltACD
The basic tenant of communication - is the thought the writer intended to share with their readers, actually communicated?  Yes or No!

Well, yes.  

At the risk of Zug hitting me with a virtual brakestick, the sentence could be "fixed" by little more than putting ellipsis between the "Standing" clause and the business with the sunrays.  That correctly expresses the elision that the writer may have (inadvertently) engaged in as a translation of stream-of-consciousness.

But still -- we have grammar as a basis for rhetoric for a reason, and as written it is one of those things that can bring readers to a screeching halt in their fluent reading to realize did he just say sunrays or a breeze was standing on the right-of-way and not shining or blowing in the scene?

And that is the very antithesis of what I'm sure the writer intended to 'communicate'.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 27, 2020 6:32 PM

The basic tenant of communication - is the thought the writer intended to share with their readers, actually communicated?  Yes or No!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by rrbrewer on Monday, April 27, 2020 6:28 PM

Hey operator, I agree totally with your observations. I am the son of a high school English teacher, and although she did not use rulers to the side of the head, her corrections were almost the same.

I winch at most of the news articles I read now and don't get me started on listening to the speech of a millennial.

Post more of these giving us a chance to exercise our doctor English muscle

 

 

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, April 27, 2020 6:18 PM

I'd settle for them to correct every time they use "lead" when they meant "led". 

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Posted by Enzoamps on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:57 PM

And yet not a single reader was confused at the meaning.  Not really.  NO one thought the author actually meant any of those screwy meanings.  I am sure my grammar is poorly.  'Me want food" is pretty clear, even if wrong.

Were I so inclined, I would make fewer mistakes.

Does Hemingway pass this test?

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Posted by York1 on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:51 PM

BaltACD
I feel certain the generation before Shakespeare would sware the man didn't know how to write as they read his works.

Four hundred years later, I agree with them.

York1 John       

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:46 PM

Every passing generation criticizes the following generation on its usage of the language - any language in any country.

I feel certain the generation before Shakespeare would sware the man didn't know how to write as they read his works.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:40 PM

LO-- both 

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Posted by York1 on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:23 PM

Lithonia Operator
And that's why the sentence is wrong, because that's not the intended meaning.

 

Thanks for making me think!  This sitting around the house for weeks watching TV has not been good for my brain, which wasn't in real good shape before this all began.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:19 PM

York1

 

 
Lithonia Operator
Standing on a section of right-of-way abandoned long ago

 

 

It's been 50 years ....

 

Is "Standing on a section of right-of-way abandoned long ago" a dependent clause used as an adjective, without a noun to which it refers?

 

Yes. Actually technically it does have a noun, the breeze. And that's why the sentence is wrong, because that's not the intended meaning.

It should be something like:  "... , a railfan feels a light breeze which ... "

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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:15 PM

Miningman

The other day I wrote ' I roast my nuts at Christmas time'... well I had to fix that up a bit! 

 

Uh ... your nuts or your sentence! 

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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:14 PM

Hey, guys! You nailed it!

The light breeze is the subject of the sentence, and there's just no way a breeze is standing on a right-of-way.

The suggested fixes do the job.

This isn't really that hard.

A few months ago (I wish I had saved the mag, because I meant to ask you folks about it.) in Trains, there was a run-on sentence that I spent about ten minutes simply trying to figure out what the heck it was saying. I never could. And neither could my wife. I have a degree in Journalism. She has two college degrees. But we were stumped.

Free hall passes for all of you! Yes

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:04 PM

The other day I wrote ' I roast my nuts at Christmas time'... well I had to fix that up a bit! 

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Posted by York1 on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:04 PM

Lithonia Operator
Standing on a section of right-of-way abandoned long ago

 

It's been 50 years ....

 

Is "Standing on a section of right-of-way abandoned long ago" a dependent clause used as an adjective, without a noun to which it refers?

York1 John       

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, April 27, 2020 4:56 PM

seppburgh2

While still smarting from the good nuns knocking it into my head 55+ years ago, the subject is the light breeze.  The action is on the warm sunbeam which is on the abandoned right away.

 

 

Lady Firestorm and I concur on another thing.

Mr. Seppburgh served his time in hell like we did!   Crying

PS:  Tree68 beat us by a matter of minutes, if not seconds!  Good job!

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Posted by seppburgh2 on Monday, April 27, 2020 4:52 PM

While still smarting from the good nuns knocking it into my head 55+ years ago, the subject is the light breeze.  The action is on the warm sunbeam which is on the abandoned right away.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, April 27, 2020 4:51 PM

Lady Firestorm, my resident language cop, and I concur.

The sentence should begin "As I stand on a section of right-of-way abandoned long ago..."  

Everything else seems fine.   

Howz dat?

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, April 27, 2020 4:47 PM

Or, perhaps:

"As I stand on a section of right-of-way abandoned long ago, a light breeze cools the warm sunrays and produces the only sound in a location that seems thousands of miles from civilization."

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by GERALD L MCFARLANE JR on Monday, April 27, 2020 4:45 PM

Bruce Kelly

It implies that a light breeze was standing on a section of right-of-way. 

We all know a light breeze can't stand, it's mobile and free flowing.

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Posted by Bruce Kelly on Monday, April 27, 2020 4:18 PM

It implies that a light breeze was standing on a section of right-of-way.

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Posted by blhanel on Monday, April 27, 2020 4:16 PM

I'll take a stab at a correction:

"Standing on a section of right-of-way abandoned long ago, I enjoy a light breeze that cools the warm sunrays and produces the only sound in a location that seems thousands of miles from civilization."

 

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Just me, crabbing about English again
Posted by Lithonia Operator on Monday, April 27, 2020 4:02 PM

Here is the first sentence of an article in last month's Trains:

"Standing on a section of right-of-way abandoned long ago, a light breeze cools the warm sunrays and produces the only sound in a location that seems thousands of miles from civilization."

There is someting fundamentally wrong with this sentence. I mean in terms of English usage and writing.

Before I tell you what is wrong (and of course you know that's coming!), do any of you guys wish to take a stab at what the problem is?

I'll check in again after a while.

I find problems with English usage, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure in almost every issue of Trains. Some have several errors.

I know most people don't care about this. (Obviously, I do. Angry) But with the Internet, along came the gradual butchering of the language. Dozens of errors can be found in Internet articles every day, and over time it gets worse and worse. What's sad is that the low standards are spreading to the print media also. There was a time when one would hardly ever find English mistakes in legitimate print publications.

Trains was once virtually perfectly edited. I wish those days would return. I find the errors jarring, and they lessen my enjoyment of reading. I have read the magazine since I was about 8. I hate seeing it go downhill.

I know budgets are tight for magazines these days, but it seems like they could afford an English-major grad student to help out for a few hours each month, if that's what it takes.

By the way, the article was very good, and the photos spectacular.

 

Still in training.


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