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Just me, crabbing about English again

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Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, April 27, 2020 9:53 PM

No, I wasn't looking for a reason to be irritated; I was just relaxing in bed reading. Chilling. But sentences like that jump out at me.

It's not "egregious," but it is incorrect writing. And I just feel like THE magazine of railroading should not be publishing sentences a high school English teacher would quickly draw a red line through. It's a question of professionalism, that's all.

Larry, it was indeed the very first sentence. One can usually understand what a writer means even if he/she does not state it correctly; this is true. And, obviously, I did get what he meant. But even if there had been more context beforehand, it would still be a bum sentence. (It was a story about the Phoenix sub of the BNSF. The pix, all but one from drones, are terrific.)

Some of us care about the language. But I'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm just an old guy lamenting the loss of something.

I do agree that manpower is an issue; so much more is expected of people in publishing now, it's no doubt harder to get everything right. This is true of the non-print media, also. I see TV reporters setting up video cameras on tripods, and shooting their own on-camera segments; a one-person operation.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Monday, April 27, 2020 10:27 PM

Lithonia Operator

Hey, guys! You nailed it!

The light breeze is the subject of the sentence, and there's just no way a breeze is standing on a right-of-way.

The suggested fixes do the job.

This isn't really that hard.

A few months ago (I wish I had saved the mag, because I meant to ask you folks about it.) in Trains, there was a run-on sentence that I spent about ten minutes simply trying to figure out what the heck it was saying. I never could. And either could my wife. I have a degree in Journalism. She has two college degrees. But we were stumped.

Free hall passes for all of you! Yes

Should either be neither?

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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, April 27, 2020 11:23 PM

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, April 27, 2020 11:37 PM

54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

 

Reminds me of the joke about the pirate and the steering wheel. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, April 27, 2020 11:39 PM

54light15
What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

Keep them in your pocket and you won't misplace them so easily.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:34 AM

Electroliner 1935

 

 
Lithonia Operator

Hey, guys! You nailed it!

The light breeze is the subject of the sentence, and there's just no way a breeze is standing on a right-of-way.

The suggested fixes do the job.

This isn't really that hard.

A few months ago (I wish I had saved the mag, because I meant to ask you folks about it.) in Trains, there was a run-on sentence that I spent about ten minutes simply trying to figure out what the heck it was saying. I never could. And either could my wife. I have a degree in Journalism. She has two college degrees. But we were stumped.

Free hall passes for all of you! Yes

 

Should either be neither?

 

You, my friend, are correct. Yes

I'll fix that.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:35 AM

zugmann

 

 
54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

 

 

 

Reminds me of the joke about the pirate and the steering wheel. 

 

Let's hear it!

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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:39 AM

One of my favorites is the misuse of quotation marks.

There is a fish market near us with a large sign which says "Fresh" Fish.

Now, would you rather buy fresh fish or "fresh" (wink, wink) fish?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:50 AM

zugmann
54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes.

Reminds me of the joke about the pirate and the steering wheel.

Which reminds me of the story about Senator Hoare, who was making an impassioned speech during which he would periodically thrust one or the other hand into a pocket as he gesticulated with the other.  Someone mentioned that the Senator was apparently leaving no stone unturned in making his argument...

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:23 AM

Lithonia Operator
Now, would you rather buy fresh fish or "fresh" (wink, wink) fish?

I'd more worried if they sold fresh "fish".

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:36 AM

54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

 

And, in your illustration, they do not need to be there. Is it now taught in schools that if an "s" is added to a word it must be separated from the word by an apostrophe? And that the historical possessive of "it" ("its") must be changed to "it's" (which was the contraction of "it is"?

Johnny

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Posted by 54light15 on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:48 AM

I don't know if it's still taught in schools on account school ended for me in 1973. You know what else I can't stand, too many commas in a sentence, like this one. Have you ever read anything by Gertrude Stein? No commas as she said that they "hold you coat" and she taught Hemingway how to write good. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:59 AM

I like commas when they are placed in normal pauses of apeech, and you check this "system" out in my postings.  T just joined two sentences together to illustrate this kinf of application.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 10:21 AM

daveklepper
T just joined two sentences together to illustrate this kind of application.

And as he noted, the sense is better served with a punctuation mark that indicates more appropriate 'normal pauses of speech' in context -- in T's example, better a full colon than a semicolon.

And yes, better than the full stop between two sentences...

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Posted by selector on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 11:38 AM

54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

 

 

Oh..oh!!  I got this one!  "What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes." should have the apostrophe before the S in apostrophes.  Right?

While I'm here, what's wrong with my, "I got this one!"

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Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 11:44 AM

selector
 
54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

 

 

 

 

Oh..oh!!  I got this one!  "What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes." should have the apostrophe before the S in apostrophes.  Right?

While I'm here, what's wrong with my, "I got this one!"

 

Overuse of exclamation point.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 11:48 AM

Euclid
Overuse of exclamation point.

i know... RIGHT??!!!

 

Its' crazy! 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:34 PM

zugmann
 
Lithonia Operator
Now, would you rather buy fresh fish or "fresh" (wink, wink) fish?

 

I'd be more worried if they sold fresh "fish".

 

Or if they "sold" fresh fish.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:35 PM

Or if "they" sold fresh fish. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:37 PM

selector
 
54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

 

 

 

 

Oh..oh!!  I got this one!  "What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes." should have the apostrophe before the S in apostrophes.  Right?

While I'm here, what's wrong with my, "I got this one!"

 

Is it wrong because your Winston tastes good like as cigarette should?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:42 PM

Deggesty

 

 
54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

 

And, in your illustration, they do not need to be there. Is it now taught in schools that if an "s" is added to a word it must be separated from the word by an apostrophe? And that the historical possessive of "it" ("its") must be changed to "it's" (which was the contraction of "it is"?

 

The only time where using an apostophe as a plural might be correct is if it's a model.  Example--F15's, GP38's or K4s's.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:47 PM

Psychot

 

 

 

 

I agree with your larger point that editing at many publications has gone downhill. However, the example you provide is not really that egregious from a comprehension standpoint; context clearly tells the reader that it's the writer who is standing and not the breeze. This is one of those errors you only notice when you're actively looking for a reason to be irritated.

I think one of the main issues these days is that so much content is being put out there compared to the pre-Internet era that there's not enough manpower to edit all of it with any degree of thoroughness. 

 

My issue with written media, when I’m not yelling at clouds, is that the authors never seem to proofread their work. Our local paper is full of articles that look like a first draft that never got a second reading. If the authors had at least read their work over once before hitting the send button, they surely would have caught some of the elementary goofs.

 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:56 PM

Deggesty

 

 
54light15

What drive's me nut's is misplaced apostrophes. 

 

 

 

Is it now taught in schools that if an "s" is added to a word it must be separated from the word by an apostrophe? And that the historical possessive of "it" ("its") must be changed to "it's" (which was the contraction of "it is"?

 

 

No, Johnny, nothing has changed as far as what is correct. It's still just as you learned it. But the teaching of English is failing.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:57 PM

zugmann

 

 
Lithonia Operator
Now, would you rather buy fresh fish or "fresh" (wink, wink) fish?

 

I'd more worried if they sold fresh "fish".

 

Big Smile Good one!

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:58 PM

Lithonia Operator
No, Johnny, nothing has changed as far as what is correct. It's still just as you learned it. But the teaching of English is failing.

It's been failing for generations, then.  I've seen people of all ages that make these common mistakes. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 1:02 PM

Yes, regular folks. Sure.

But today, you see many more errors from professional writers than you did in the past.

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Posted by Bruce Kelly on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 2:07 PM

L.O., I fully agree.

Every day I come across misspellings and missing or misused words in the "professional" writing that's posted at news and feature outlets of every kind, including some of the largest players in the media business. Seems to happen less often in print, most likely because there's more time (and personnel?) allotted to properly proof and edit material that's going to be "etched in stone" (inked onto paper) within a matter of days or hours. It's a different story with web material, where it's all about getting the news up there and posted as quickly as possible, often within minutes.

A couple of months ago, a young journalist reached out to me for some advice as he headed toward a new postion with a fairly popular magazine. Among the more than 4,000 words of worn-out wisdom I game him was my strong recommendation to always read through a finished piece multiple times, mostly with the eyes, but at least once or twice with the mouth and ears, in order to both SEE and HEAR potential flaws before committing the material to public consumption.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 2:15 PM

It doesn't help that the upcoming generations have been raised on tweets and LOL's.

Not to mention word processors.  With spel czech.

I'm sure very few of them have heard of the Government Printing Office Style Manual.  I will admit, I'm not sure where my copy is hiding right now...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 3:07 PM

Bruce Kelly

L.O., I fully agree.

Every day I come across misspellings and missing or misused words in the "professional" writing that's posted at news and feature outlets of every kind, including some of the largest players in the media business. Seems to happen less often in print, most likely because there's more time (and personnel?) allotted to properly proof and edit material that's going to be "etched in stone" (inked onto paper) within a matter of days or hours. It's a different story with web material, where it's all about getting the news up there and posted as quickly as possible, often within minutes.

A couple of months ago, a young journalist reached out to me for some advice as he headed toward a new postion with a fairly popular magazine. Among the more than 4,000 words of worn-out wisdom I game him was my strong recommendation to always read through a finished piece multiple times, mostly with the eyes, but at least once or twice with the mouth and ears, in order to both SEE and HEAR potential flaws before committing the material to public consumption.

 

Bruce, good advice! I have found that I need to read what I have written before I send it on, to catch the wrong keys that I pressed as well as making certain that what I wrote means what I intended.

One thing that I have long noticed is that people tend to imitate the way their parents and others around them talked as they were growing up. I have a good friend here where I live who talks in a manner other than that which I heard at home as I was growing up; I understand what he says, and say nothing about his grammar or usage.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 3:18 PM

tree68

It doesn't help that the upcoming generations have been raised on tweets and LOL's.

Not to mention word processors.  With spel czech.

I'm sure very few of them have heard of the Government Printing Office Style Manual.  I will admit, I'm not sure where my copy is hiding right now...

 

I comprehend some of the abbreviations used by the people who use shirt pocket-sized communications devices, but I do find it easier to read words that are spelled out and not abbreviated.

As to spell czech, if I am in doubt about the spelling of a word that I post, I will copy it to my word processor which does understand words that are commonly used.

My wife worked as a copy editor for two publishers, and she often referred to the University of Chicago Manual of Style (or some such name). Usually, the author agreed with her corrections, but some would take issue with her. She did ask me a question or two about the proper name of this railroad or that railroad. 

Johnny

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