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Japan’s doing it. Will we do it, too?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 26, 2020 11:09 AM

zugmann
Hershey stopped using cocoa butter and started using vegetable oil.  It's why their products aren't labeled as "milk chocolate" anymore ... they don't meet the FDA definition of milk chocolate. 

I trust you know that cocoa 'butter' is not made by churning milk or in fact has anything to do with the 'milk' that's used in milk chocolate at all.  It's the important ingredient in 'white chocolate', though.

I wouldn't put it past a mass-market chocolate company to tinker with the stuff it used as 'milk', though -- especially with increasing potential 'market presumption' that milk=bad nutritionally (or medically for lactose-intolerance or gluten/casein in autism).  So they might be using substitute or processed ingredients that no longer 'count' as the 12% or whatever that the FDA requires in products branded as 'milk'.

You might find this reference interesting in this context...

https://foodensity.com/fine-milk-chocolate/

it certainly seems to be 'opportunity knocking' for the next wave of overpriced but obsessively-delicious milk chocolate products...

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Posted by York1 on Sunday, April 26, 2020 10:17 AM

Flintlock76
What candy or candies did you absolutely hate  getting on Halloween? 

 

I didn't hate any specific brands, but any candy that had coconut in it was given to someone else.  There's something about the taste of coconut that I don't like to this day.

York1 John       

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Posted by York1 on Sunday, April 26, 2020 10:15 AM

Confession time:  I did not particularly like Boston Baked Beans as a kid, but my brothers and I always bought them when we went to a movie without our parents.  Each summer we had movies just for kids -- 300 kids packed into a movie theater without any parents around.  Those were fun days.

The baked beans were shiny, and when you threw them in the theater into the projected movie light, they would light up like meteors through the dark theater.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, April 26, 2020 9:47 AM

C-O, Bit-O-Honey and Mary Janes are still with us and very much alive.  Black Jacks I'm not sure, I haven't gone looking for that one although Black Jack gum is still available from specialty candy retailers.

While we're on this wonderfully diverted subject (Isn't this fun?) we have to ask.  What candy or candies did you absolutely hate  getting on Halloween?  Might make a fun survey!  So much to choose from!

Zug, that sure explains a lot!   Ick!

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, April 26, 2020 9:38 AM

Gramp
So many brands are not what they were. A Hershey's chocolate bar isn't. I've wondered if it is the influence of Nestle's. A Nabisco Graham Cracker also is different. Sad. 

Hershey stopped using cocoa butter and started using vegetable oil.  It's why their products aren't labeled as "milk chocolate" anymore, but instead read "choclate candy" or "chocolate flavored".  They don't meet the FDA definition of milk chocolate. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:24 PM

I preferred Cheese Doodles to Cheetos.

Other old candies I fondly remember: Bit-o-Honey, Mary Janes, and Black Jacks. All varients of flavored taffy chews.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:23 PM

Miningman

 

Doesn't THAT look interesting?  I don't think it's ever made it south of the border, I've never seen it anywhere. 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:13 PM

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 PM

Ever see that 1927 movie "Wings?"  Classic aviation film, however one part that grabbed Lady F's and my attention was when a young Gary Cooper does a walk-on eating a Hershey bar. 

You should see the size of that 1927 Hershey bar!  It's darn near as big as a brick!

It's so big he doesn't live to finish it!  He gets killed in a mid-air collision a minute or two later.  What a shame.  Crying

Anyone remember Milk-Shake bars?  Man how I miss those things!

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Posted by Gramp on Saturday, April 25, 2020 8:26 PM

So many brands are not what they were. A Hershey's chocolate bar isn't. I've wondered if it is the influence of Nestle's. A Nabisco Graham Cracker also is different. Sad. 

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 8:12 PM

I've had salted peanuts mixed with M&Ms.  In spite of how it sounds, it was actually good.

Back to how this started, I wonder if anyone's tried chocolate covered Cheetos?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, April 25, 2020 8:06 PM

I can't understand why everything carmel is salted nowdays.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:14 PM

Johnny, chocolate covered potato chips are popular in the Philadelphia area, they also show up in gourmet candy shops in New York City.  

I can't see the point, but it takes all kinds.  I don't understand deep-fried pickles either!

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, April 25, 2020 6:56 PM

Quoting Flintlock "She considers chocolate-covered potato chips an abomination and a crime against nature!" I never heard of such! Potato chips were not created to be coated with chocolate! Do these people coat their steaks with chocolate?

Johnny

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 6:48 PM

Lady Firestorm had to sound off on this, she loves Wise potato chips, or whatever brand I bring home since they don't cost her anything.  Not being a salt junkie she prefers lightly salted but won't split hairs. 

She considers chocolate-covered potato chips an abomination and a crime against nature!  Hates "Black n' White" cookies too, but she'll kill for Oreos! 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, April 25, 2020 6:41 PM

Roast my own mixed nuts at Christmas. I sprinkle in a good helping of salt and a bit of sugar. All matter of nuts. Dosen't take long, come out nice!

i luv salt liquorice... have to bring it in by mail. Dutch treat! Grew up with it, even better now. Lots of varieties of it. I do not tell my docs!  

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 6:24 PM

Flintlock76
I happen to like Utz's Classic Potato Chips, Cape Cod's are pretty good too!

 

I can't remember ever having Utz's.  If I travel east, I'll have to try some.

 

Convicted One
Can you remember when "salted  in shell" pistachio nuts were actually glazed white with salt  on the shell surface?

 

I used to think it was my imagination, but most snack foods have tried to reduce salt.  My wife just bought some salted in the shell peanuts.  If you didn't read it on the package, you would swear there was no salt on them at all.

York1 John       

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, April 25, 2020 6:07 PM

Can you remember when "salted  in shell" pistachio nuts were actually glazed white with salt  on the shell surface?

Man those were good, but these  days any salted pistachios that I find are dyed red, and barely salted.

I'll bet those ones I fondly recall wreaked havoc on blood pressure.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 5:35 PM

I happen to like Utz's Classic Potato Chips, Cape Cod's are pretty good too!

I tried Utz's "Sea Salt and Vinegar" chips, blew my sinuses out!  "Strong" is putting it mildly!  I call 'em "Utz Gassies!"  But if some folks like 'em, well  who am I to judge?  

Anyone remember the greenies and the blackies that used to show up in packs of Wise potato chips? 

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 5:22 PM

Electroliner 1935
York1
1.  Strict environmental laws.  Many industrial processes have dirty by-products.  Trying to clean the processes and get rid of the wastes are very expensive.  China and some other Asian countries don't worry too much about those things.

The Cheeto is working on rolling back the enforcement of ,any of them. 

 

I do have an answer for you that you wouldn't like, but I have sworn off responding to silly political statements.   Someone will kick me if I get sucked in again.

I do like Cheetos, but plain potato chips are actually better.

York1 John       

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 4:56 PM

York1
1.  Strict environmental laws.  Many industrial processes have dirty by-products.  Trying to clean the processes and get rid of the wastes are very expensive.  China and some other Asian countries don't worry too much about those things.

The Cheeto is working on rolling back the enforcement of ,any of them. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 3:13 PM

C-O, you're spot-on in your supposition that in the olden days, the times we remember of plastic modeling, the owners were  the CEO's, CFO's, developers, marketers, and "everything-else-that-needs-doing" guys.  

Here's a video if you've got 46 minutes to spare.  It's a history of Aurora, Revell, and Monogram, names I'm sure you'll remember.  Very nostalgic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgCRQ2wIvw   

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, April 25, 2020 1:36 PM

Flintlock76
They're not all outrageous mind you, some are still fairly reasonable, but those 1970-era prices are long gone!

Glad I'm not alone.  But the point I think is worth making is, if those kits were priced 1/100th of an average entry level blue collar job 50 years ago, why should that not be possible today? What is a "standard" pay grade make these days? $600/week?

How did those kits go from 1/100th of a weeks pay to 1/15 of a weeks pay?

I'm thinking a good share of those manufacturers laments about the challenge of making a decent margin  are crocodile tears.

Some claim that in the olden days, the major automobile manufacturers actually paid the cost of tooling the molds for the kit makers, so that they would stimulate interest in buying the full sized version.  While that may be the case in s limited amount of instances, I don't think it held true for my Don Garlits dragster, nor for the B-24 you were modeling.

I more suspect  the  material diffenence is that in the olden days, the owner of the kit companies was also the entrepreneuer, was also the CEO, and likely actually did useful work in the production room.

Now we are paying stockholders, a CEO, a CFO, and a board of directors to sit around all day and decide who best to lay-off next out on the floor to "maximize yield".

The main reason that there is no money to pay production staff a decent wage is because the "Wall Street" business model is  top heavy.

 SoapBox

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 1:06 PM

C-O, I know exactly  what you mean.  I was modeling at the same time you were, in my case model airplanes, and I remember paying 75 cents, a dollar, or at the most two dollars for the kits.  When I'm in a hobby shop now and see the prices on the same kits I remember from 50 years back I almost have heart failure! 

Hey, everything's gone up, but really!

Mind you, I keep a VERY tactful silence when I see those prices!  

They're not all outrageous mind you, some are still fairly reasonable, but those 1970-era prices are long gone!

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, April 25, 2020 12:36 PM

Flintlock76
Only the model railroading companies know what their profit margin is, and that's fine, it's none of our business.  Maybe what they say is true that if the products were made domestically only 2% of the current market could afford them.  That being the case, the model makers should ask their clientele a few questions, such as: "Would you be willing to pay more for a domestically produced product, and if so, how much more?  $50 more?  $100 more?  $200 more?" "If you would prefer an affordable domestically produced product, what features are you willing to give up to make this happen?"  

I'm not really an avid hobbyist at the present time, but I have gone into a few hobby stores in the past several years and can only say that I am dumbfounded over the prices that I see.

I scale modeled cars extensively in the late 60's and early 70s, and did HO scale slotcars and railroads.....and just looking at what they are selling boxcar kits for...defies belief. Locomotives are out of this world......and scale model car kits are insane compared to what I recall.

I remember being able to buy 1/25 scale car kits for $2.00....now the very same kits, in the same boxes...$44-$48. 

Now in the relevant time period  I remember  $200/week was considered decent blue collar pay.  I think my parents were doing a bit better than that, but the older kids in the neighborhood who were graduating highschool and going to work in factories were starting right about there.

I don't see many entry level jobs today offering $4800/week to high school graduates

So, something is out of kilter there. Perhaps those $48 kits I'm seeing are collectable originals that have been sitting in a ware house for 50 years.....but the hobby stores seem to be awfully full of them for that to be the case.  One would think that with modern technology and efficiencies, there should be kit makers able to out compete the model companies of yore.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:11 AM

Mr. McFarlane brought up some interesting points, and maybe this belongs on the "Model Railroader" or "Classic Toy Trains" Forums, but I'm going to comment just the same.

Only the model railroading companies know what their profit margin is, and that's fine, it's none of our business.  Maybe what they say is true that if the products were made domestically only 2% of the current market could afford them. 

That being the case, the model makers should ask their clientele a few questions, such as:

"Would you be willing to pay more for a domestically produced product, and if so, how much more?  $50 more?  $100 more?  $200 more?"

"If you would prefer an affordable domestically produced product, what features are you willing to give up to make this happen?"  

Basic market research.

Many of todays model products are jam-packed with electronic features that drive the cost up.  You can run trains with hand-held remotes, or from your computer, or from a SmartPhone.  Is this necessary, or is it just a means to attract technology junkies who are a problematic model railroading target to begin with?

Personally, I run my O gauge trains conventionally, that is old-fashioned transformer control.  I don't need or want all the gee-whiz electronics that are packed into the current product and am reluctant to pay for something I'll never use.  Am I alone?  Maybe, but I don't think so.  Many on the "Classic Toy Trains" Forum have told me I'm not.

I did have some gee-whiz electronics blow on one model and it would have cost me $200 to replace the board package.  Ouch!  I found a conventional control drop-in replacement board from Dallee Electronics for $75 that solved the problem.  I lost the gee-whiz features but I didn't care, I had a functional engine again, that was all that mattered.  

Pardon the dissertation, but I'm guessing there's other model railroaders out there on this Forum wondering and asking the same questions I am.

One last thing.  There's post-war produced Lionel locomotives out there that were built simple, rugged, and reliable, and are still running 60, 70, almost 80 years after they were built.  There's some pre-war Lionels 100 years old and still running.  Will todays models with all the sophisticated electronics still be running 50 years from now?  No-one knows.  Personally, I doubt it.

 

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 8:55 AM

Convicted One
Before you give up completely, could you please pass a message along to Mr Trump? Tell him I've grown weary of all this winning, I can't take it anymore, please stop.

I'll try, but a few months ago he quit taking my calls.  The WH blocked my number as spam.

York1 John       

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, April 25, 2020 8:50 AM

Murphy Siding
How 'bout I kick you in the shins nex time you're tempted. You're welcome.

You've got to find me first.  I'm in hiding.

York1 John       

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Posted by GERALD L MCFARLANE JR on Saturday, April 25, 2020 1:32 AM

Flintlock76

Getting back to Gramp's original post about "Japan paying," since I haven't seen anything elsewhere about it (No foolin', with all the 'All coronavirus, all the time!' news coverage) I'm guessing the Japanese government is advancing loans to those companies doing the pulling, since they're going to have to leave everything behind.

Oh yeah, send your tooling, dies, presses, molds, and other manufacturing machinery to China and you can kiss it goodbye!  They won't give it back.  This is the bind American toy train makers like Lionel, MTH, Bachmann, and others have gotten themselves into. 

 

 
Interesting you should mention some of the American model railroad manufacturers since I happen to follow a couple of companies on YouTube, one American and one Canadian.  Neither one shipped tooling, dies, presses, molds or any other machinery to China, they use Chinese machinery in Chinese factories, the have their molds and dies made by other Chinese factories using Chinese sources.  The only thing they send to their Chinese factory(factories in the case of Rapido) is digital files of the models they're making, that's it, everything else is made and from China, and both have said if the stuff was made in the U.S. no one could afford to buy it, except for the 2%, that's how much difference in cost there is.
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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, April 25, 2020 12:58 AM

York1
I am not going to get sucked into a goofy political discussion that is completely off topic

Before you give up completely, could you please pass a message along to Mr Trump?

Tell him I've grown weary of all this winning, I can't take it anymore, please stop.  Wink

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