Yeah 2 passenger bubbles. No driver. All digital all computer controlled. All electric, no stink. Not individually owned, you request one and it arrives. Thoroughly sanitized automatically each trip in seconds. Hundreds of thousands of them, all zipping along picking up and dropping off people on demand. No parked cars sitting there all day doing nothing. Store them and maintain them underground in what were the subways. No mass transit ever again.
Not science fiction, very doable and complete transformation in a generation. I think the only way to save cities.
The car enthusiasts, wahoos, good ol boys, NASCAR can still be but way outside of the cities.
Oxford's so optimistic that their vaccine is going to be effective and safe in humans, that it's going to be entering mass production soon.
I'm very hopeful we'll have an effective weapon against this in short order. Not soon enough when lives are being lost and the economy is imploding, but it appears optimistic we'll have a solution in record time and at some point about a year from now, be able to start to relax.
People aren't going to live in a bubble forever, afraid of human contact. May as well launch all those missiles in our boomers right now if widespread adversion of other humans is going to be the result of this.
I think common sense will prevail and life will return to normalcy. We'll see changes for sure, but fundamentally we'll see a return to life much like what we had a short time ago.
MiningmanNot science fiction, very doable and complete transformation in a generation.
It was very doable with complete transformation in a generation back in the 1970s, too, when PRT was the 'darling' of the transportation program. It has gotten orders of magnitude cheaper and easier, too, with advances in electrical storage and power drives and in autonomous replacing the need for fixed or 'equipped' guideways.
But it's still not practical and likely never will be. It's a lovely idea new, just like taxicabs are lovely new. It's when they've been running in the snow and rain for a few years, and the seals start to let go and the air conditioning filters go bad, and the suspension doesn't get regularly checked, and the previous client's vomit under the seat hasn't quite dried, that some of the problems with an unattended taxi model start to become more and more obvious.
You could fix this, of course, in Singapore. Keep the cameras running and cane anybody who trashes the inside. New York already has arcane and Mickey Mouse traffic and parking regulations that under Magic Mike were enforced quickly to the letter -- it wouldn't help this much. I won't go into the technical description of guiding and congestion for the required number of little bubbles on the surface (trust me, you can NOT afford the '70s type of multiple-level guideways to make the trick work, even if there weren't the 'issues' with New York construction) but it ain't ever goin' to replace the subways for mass transit. Likely, net of all system cost and insurance and chronic cost of replacing or restoring vandalized plant, you'll be running under some sort of New York restaurant model, where bubble companies (what an apt double entendre!) set up, run expensively for about six months, mysteriously fold up and screw their creditors and disappear, and some other fellow repeats the exercise with the stock and infrastructure. Your money would be safer investing in the Interstate Traveller Company.
OvermodI won't go into the technical description of guiding and congestion for the required number of little bubbles on the surface... but it ain't ever goin' to replace the subways for mass transit.
Well then would it be at least possible to evict the homeless who use the subways for shelter?
54light15 Miningman, did you say, "two passenger bubbles?" Makes me think of Isetta cars and remember the Messerschmitt Tiger? Those along with Heinkels, Trojans and Dorniers were all called bubble cars back in the 50s. Or Kabinenroller, aka cabin scooters. It would be neat to see them back again but for the two-stroke stink they put out.
Miningman, did you say, "two passenger bubbles?" Makes me think of Isetta cars and remember the Messerschmitt Tiger? Those along with Heinkels, Trojans and Dorniers were all called bubble cars back in the 50s. Or Kabinenroller, aka cabin scooters. It would be neat to see them back again but for the two-stroke stink they put out.
Messerschmitts? Heinkels? Dorniers?
Why do those names make me nervous?
How do we know those bubble cars wouldn't take off for London when the starter button was pushed?
Flintlock76 54light15 Miningman, did you say, "two passenger bubbles?" Makes me think of Isetta cars and remember the Messerschmitt Tiger? Those along with Heinkels, Trojans and Dorniers were all called bubble cars back in the 50s. Or Kabinenroller, aka cabin scooters. It would be neat to see them back again but for the two-stroke stink they put out. Messerschmitts? Heinkels? Dorniers? Why do those names make me nervous? How do we know those bubble cars wouldn't take off for London when the starter button was pushed?
Dornier
Heinkel
Messerschmitt
Isetta by BMW
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Well you guys figure it out
New York New York
EuclidWell then would it be at least possible to evict the homeless who use the subways for shelter?
Few things would be easier, given the structure of the New York subway's current fare system. Enact the appropriate statutes about no extended 'unnecessary' presence in the subways, then give enforcement personnel the authority they have in San Jose or Dallas to summarily demand 'proof' of anyone that they are date-and-place entitled to be where they are. Haul 'em off to court, summarily fine 'em, and ...
well, now comes Euclid time, what will you do with the homeless next. Aren't enough dollars in your budget for shelters, you'll have trouble bussing them on the sly to streetcorners in Hoboken or Newark in 'payback' for all the years those cities used that tactic on New York. Put ankle bracelets on them or microchip them so they can't slip back onto 'subway' property? Get them conveniently 'committed' on some PC mental-health diagnosis so you have grounds to detain them somewhere indefinitely, a reversal in spirit of the desperate cost-cutting mental-health releases that sparked the first obvious wave of 'homeless' (as opposed to bums or street people) in New York a half-century or so ago?
And remember that you as a policymaker in New York City have to answer to an enormous number of 'woke' voters who support privileges for the homeless ... as long as the homeless stay out of their neighborhoods.
From the pictures, they all look like cars for children to drive. However, such cars were usually made for only one child.
Johnny
Deggesty- they were all cars built to re-start the German ecomony and consider the material shortages that they had to contend with. The ones with 3 wheels could be registered and insured cheaply as a motor scooter. As the economy improved and people could afford better, these cars became unwanted. I have read a book in German reviewing all of these cars and many others that were built in France that were contemporary. The conclusion of the book was to buy a Volkswagen, its the only real car of this bunch.
Today the bubble cars are worth a lot of money, especially the Messerschmitt Tiger which did very well in racing.
Well they certainly are an interesting bunch of cars. The Messerschmitt Tiger look not too bad, but the red paint gotta go, makes it look like a toy. Some would fit in today just fine but with upgrades and all electric .
Back in the 1960's, a local fellow (in MI) had one of the ones that has the door open to the front.
He was a volunteer firefighter, and had a siren light mounted on the roof. Strange combination, to say the least...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
There's one in a museum in Nuremberg where the doors open from the bottom with a counter-balancing spring along the top. Built by Dornier I recall. It didn't go into production. I used to know a woman who grew up in London in the swinging sixties, Carnaby street and all that. A friend of hers had an Isetta and the idea was, you parked straight in to the "kerb" and got out directly onto the "pavement."
Keep in mind that in the mid-Seventies none of the PRT systems involved two-seat vehicles -- not flexible enough as the 'default' circulating car, not cost-effective enough if routing with effective-enough call 'fulfillment latency' wasn't long enough to route a two-seat car to a two-seat call. There is little additional structure involved in making a side-by-side vehicle into a four-seater; the ones I remember used a single door and were set up essentially like a limousine, or that face-to-face seating on some commuter coaches minus the fixed table. With the ability to run CBTC-style following distance, or with explicit platooning like so many of the 'guideway' proposals, these have relatively good spatial density when running 'trunked'. The problem was that vehicles like this have essentially zero usefulness in transportation when not running as intended, under computer control, in a carefully built and maintained environment -- and much of this still remains for pure autonomous vehicles that are to be sold in competition with 'more able alternatives.
It is possible that large numbers of millennials will be willing either to buy teensy but expen$ive bubble cars and freely provide them to Uber-like services 'when not actively needed', or buy a share, as in general-aviation private jet leasing, to get a certain number of baseline hours of 'service' from a vehicle at lower aggregate cost. I think it's much more likely that these will have more conventional'luxury' seats than a commodity transit vehicle would have, and they will have better lines and retain the ability to be driven 'conventionally' in some ways. I also think for pure liability reasons alone the idea of super-light and quick vehicles needing very low power is an extremely bad one -- not just for reasons of weather difficulty or 'coexisting with buses or other larger transport vehicles'.
Meanwhile, from the other direction, regional 'feeder' air using 10 to 12-person 'vehicles' is actually easier to arrange autonomously, including the BRS equivalent when anything 'goes wrong' enroute, and gives you multiple levels of potential 'space filling' with almost inconsequential per-passenger maintenance and tracking cost. This severely pinches your ability to find the billyuns and billyuns of dollars needed for nasty little concrete linguini everywhere, or keeping routes on streets open as much as possible net of all the little ad hoc dwells of people boarding and alighting.
tree68Back in the 1960's, a local fellow (in MI) had one of the ones that has the door open to the front. He was a volunteer firefighter, and had a siren light mounted on the roof. Strange combination, to say the least...
Isetta racing
Overmod Euclid Well then would it be at least possible to evict the homeless who use the subways for shelter? Few things would be easier, given the structure of the New York subway's current fare system. Enact the appropriate statutes about no extended 'unnecessary' presence in the subways, then give enforcement personnel the authority they have in San Jose or Dallas to summarily demand 'proof' of anyone that they are date-and-place entitled to be where they are. Haul 'em off to court, summarily fine 'em, and ... well, now comes Euclid time, what will you do with the homeless next. Aren't enough dollars in your budget for shelters, you'll have trouble bussing them on the sly to streetcorners in Hoboken or Newark in 'payback' for all the years those cities used that tactic on New York. Put ankle bracelets on them or microchip them so they can't slip back onto 'subway' property? Get them conveniently 'committed' on some PC mental-health diagnosis so you have grounds to detain them somewhere indefinitely, a reversal in spirit of the desperate cost-cutting mental-health releases that sparked the first obvious wave of 'homeless' (as opposed to bums or street people) in New York a half-century or so ago? And remember that you as a policymaker in New York City have to answer to an enormous number of 'woke' voters who support privileges for the homeless ... as long as the homeless stay out of their neighborhoods.
Euclid Well then would it be at least possible to evict the homeless who use the subways for shelter?
EuclidBut if the trains are to survive, I think the homeless camping has got to go.
The problem is not in the power to compel that, or in the power to keep it enforced. It's in the poitical will to actually do it and then keep it done (and while the present crisis is "on" is a good time to get something actually implemented ... think 55mph national speed limit ... keeping it active months from now when the death emergency is deemed over but the risks of infection are still substantial is likely to be a hassle for those in the political class)
The real thing that is missing, and it's one of the faiures of modern society in a more general context, is dealing with the causes of homelessness more definitively and with more emphasis on positive outcome instead of different coercion or sequential rousting. The solution to kicking the 'minimally mentally incapacitated' (I can't think of the right euphemism du jour) out of a state-subsidized framework is not better shelters or an enhanced flow of free money requiring careful bureaucratic navigation of just the types the typical homeless can't complete. Having them 'illegally' staying safe in the tunnels is just a least-cost default. We'll need a humane alternative to 'where to put them' when the trains and passages are declared 'off-limits' for real. Where can, or should, that be, if you were asked to advise?
What could and should be done is to put together, assemble, the most successful business minded people with the express mandate of solving this problem. Keep government, social engineers, political hacks and all that out of it. These are the finest forward thinking entrepreneurial minds, people that have vision and can get it done. The solution will then come and be as a solid and permanent fix. A Presidential Commision , a Royal Commision , whatever you want to call it, but let them have at it.
( Now here is a controversial side to it, the other side of the coin.. is it somewhat possible that these very same people NEED failures in society, visible to all, threatening dire consequences if we don't keep rowing while they crack the whip? . I have heard that phrase "We Need Failures". )
Nontheless it is time to end all of it. It's not one size fits all ..Bell Curve this and I'm sure on one end you have phscotic's that can't be brought back, neurotics that can be brought back, many addictive , but also a good size bunch that just had bad luck and can't get out of the trap with no family or family that could care less.
Miningman( Now here is a controversial side to it, the other side of the coin.. is it somewhat possible that these very same people NEED failures in society, visible to all, threatening dire consequences if we don't keep rowing while they crack the whip? . I have heard that phrase "We Need Failures". )
Yes government needs problems to solve and they are careful not to ever solve them. Problems that can be dramatized for the public are useful in convincing the public that they are not paying enough taxes. Pot holes and the homeless are two examples of useful problems. They are cash cows for government.
Sad but real story below on link .. not long
Miningman Sad but real story below on link .. not long https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/02/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-subway-homeless.html
First you say that business men should be brought together (couldn't they have come together on their own?) to solve the homeless problem... and then you show us how business men are responsible for part of the problem.
OvermodBut any effective vaccine for the general population is at least 2 years off, while the kinetics for full acquired immunity through disease remain in the range of 'about a year'. That is tantamount to an iron law of sorts. It is half the issue.
There had been a group already working on a corona virus type vaccine, that are undergoing early tests, and may be ready by the end of the year. The 1918-20 pandemic lasted 2 years.
Health scientist estimate there would be over 2 million deaths before heard immunity would be achieved, or about a 50% rise in the overall death rate during that time.
No the homeless problem needs to be solved and so far no one has a solution so you would need to ask them and put together a coalition and give them a mandate, in the interest of our countries and humanity.
I simply presented both sides , with the other side being in conflict with the mandate . I don't know if 'We Need Failures' is true but it seems rather obvious it is. We don't have debtors' prisons any more but the individual, the small guy, the mom and pop can be ruined with no alternate but the street.
Overmod asked "what would you suggest ".. That's my suggestion but it has a possible problem, so I simply pointed it out.
Its a disgrace to society and government is not the answer. Governments role is to mandate this and get out of the way.
The US already has a higher incarcerated percentage of its citizens than any other country in the world. Yep lock up the homeless, lock up the bankrupt's. All that really shouts FREEDOM!
What the bloody hell are you talking about?
MiningmanNo the homeless problem needs to be solved and so far no one has a solution so you would need to ask them (business men) and put together a coalition and give them a mandate, in the interest of our countries and humanity.
MiningmanIts a disgrace to society and government is not the answer. Governments role is to mandate this and get out of the way.
I Googled "homelessness businessmen ideas" and got 5 million hits. I guess they already solved the problem.
MiningmanWhat the bloody hell are you talking about?
Locking up the homeless and bringing back debtors prisons just like some people want to 'clean up' the country. Of course some of those 'clean up' types would prefer much more stringent steps based on such things as ethnic orign, etc.
MiningmanNo the homeless problem needs to be solved and so far no one has a solution...
The problem itself is wide and varied. Some people are genuinely down on their luck and have nowhere to go. Some are essentially "on the run" for whatever reason. Some have mental health issues. Some simply choose the homeless lifestyle.
As has been mentioned, there are issues that need to be resolved that the politicians, and others, have chosen to ignore.
Nobody is locking anyone up here and it's not about business or making money. It's about getting together the best minds in the free market side , the guys who made it happen, and present them with the challenge of their lifetime. It is these people that have vision, that have exciting ideas and if seriously asked by their government to solve this then I believe it's the best way to go about doing that. Not about jail or making money , not at all. This is 2020 not 1932, 1952 or 1962.
I'm kind of breaking my own mould here but it would be obvious there are different groups of homeless to consider. Psychotic individuals would require long term supervised care, very difficult, but in a medical and secure place and hopfully treatment could be found some day. Neurotic individuals can be brought back as useful and productive I'm sure. Addicted people are tough too, I would spread them apart far and wide but what do I know. A small cohort could go back to family with medical supervision and financial support. Another cohort of addicts could overcome their problems in time. Some find it in religion and things like that. Some addictions, like gambling, can be beaten more easily but a lot of damage has been done to others. They need new starts, a new place away from any gambling. It will then vanish for good. Drugs and booze are likely by far the biggest cohort. A solution must be found. Those that want to remain homeless , well give them a job as a deer watcher in a State Park or something with drop in supervision, as long as they have some dignity... and so on.
All people want and need dignity. That is what is needed and in 2020 the most successful amoung us will find a way to deliver that. It will be a big challenge and if asked to solve one that they would be up to.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.