It was a GE U-Boat, of course
samfp1943Recalling History, around the turn of the 20th Century, Ice was a common comodity,to be harevested, and stored for future uses; it was a serious wintertime industry, and in areas where cold weather permitted it, it was transported and stored in large quantities.
According to accounts, upwards of 50,000 tons of ice was harvested from Adirondack lakes each year for use at New York Central ice houses (and local suppliers, too - the legend of the White Lake ice house has the ice taking a substantial amount of time to melt after the structure burned down around it).
To my knowledge, the railroads never ventured onto the ice - it was cut and brought to shore, where it was loaded on reefers.
There is, however, at least one railcar at the bottom of an Adirondack lake, due to the barge on which it was being carried capsizing. Check out the Racquette Lake Railroad. Collis Huntington was partially responsible for it's construction.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I actually have heard of this. I think there is a video on youtube about it.
These 'tales' of various 'sunken equipment' seem to pop up at various times. Myths,maybe? Occasionally, the real items emerge. From H.S.days, I recall a story of a young man who found a sunken caterpillar tractor in a local lake. He recovered it, rebuilt it, and eventually, used it to work with.
Recalling History, around the turn of the 20th Century, Ice was a common commodity,to be harvested, and stored for future uses; it was a serious wintertime industry, and in areas where cold weather permitted it, it was transported and stored in large quantities.
Large wagons were on thick lake and river ice; so itismconceivable,that tracks might be laid on that same thick ice, to faciitate movement of large quantities of ice tofurther storage locqtiuons. Remewmhber,as well, railroad equipment constructioin, at those times, were of much lighter weights,and locomotives were noi as heavy as they would become.
So to have some fall though the ice,is/or was, a real possibllty. See the Thread mentioned here, of the History Chanel's show "Search for Civil War Gold".
Ringo58 Ever since I was a kid I loved trains. When I found out that there was an old trainline that passed through my neighborhood in the 1920s I wanted to find out more. I live in Antioch IL. There was a small ice house spur that got ice from the lakes around me. Ive always heard that there is a train in Rock Lake wi after the ice got too thin. Does anyone have any information to back this up? or more info about the ice spurs? Anything is greatly appreciated!!
Ever since I was a kid I loved trains. When I found out that there was an old trainline that passed through my neighborhood in the 1920s I wanted to find out more. I live in Antioch IL. There was a small ice house spur that got ice from the lakes around me. Ive always heard that there is a train in Rock Lake wi after the ice got too thin. Does anyone have any information to back this up? or more info about the ice spurs? Anything is greatly appreciated!!
I saw this forum while searching around online for historical information, as everyone that I knew while growing up on Rock Lake and Camp Lake didn't have much information. I felt I had to create an account just to chime in. Anyways, I can set the record straight and attest that there is indeed a train down there. Everyone that lives there eventually hears about it. I remember first being spooked by it as a kid, thinking that I would accidentally kid it or get stuck on it when we would swim out in the middle of the lake.
Regardless, I was specifically told that there was a neighbor somewhere in the neighborhood that had made a personal submersible and also dove down to look around the bottom of the lake. I figured I never took and skepticism against these claims. I don't see why anyone would lie about that stuff.
Regardless, I didn't know that people outside of our neighborhood knew about this "myth". That's cool to know.
CSSHEGEWISCHSomehow, the noise and exhaust takes away from the alleged goal of getting into a natural area.
That's also why the sleds like the railroad ROW - relatively flat with long, sweeping curves.
Even the general snowmobiling population is up in arms about the folks with loud exhausts, however.
Example, when I was in college, the outdoors club would sponsor a couple of hikes a year to search for the "Great Locomotive" - a supposedly abandoned steamer "out there someplace in the hills" (The campus was in a very rural area - a valley surrounded by hills). This had a smidgen of fact behind it. The area was logged around 1890-1910 (the hills were useless for farming and had been left as is by the early setttlers, but there was prime timber if you could get it out) and many of the trails through the woods (second growth forest of now mature trees that grew up after the state bought the clear cut logged out tracts on the cheap as recreation areas - a very wise idea in the long run) were originally loggger's roadbeds. We occasionally found spikes and rarely, tie plates (an extravagance most loggers ignored on lines that would be used for just a few years). Never found it and I hear today's club members are still looking...I picture a rusty old Shay or Climax, overgrown with vegetation.
CSSHEGEWISCH I've never been a fan of snowmobiles and ATV's as recreational devices. Somehow, the noise and exhaust takes away from the alleged goal of getting into a natural area. I'll stay with my cross country skis.
I've never been a fan of snowmobiles and ATV's as recreational devices. Somehow, the noise and exhaust takes away from the alleged goal of getting into a natural area. I'll stay with my cross country skis.
We have 2 Canoes, 3 kayaks and 2 power boats, and enjoy them all. The canoes and kayaks can take us places that the boats can't. But the 17' Beechcraft is much better suited to crabbing, and I don't even want to think about landing a 30#+ Chinook Salmon in a kayak, yet I have seen some do it. Then there is the 1968 Stevens SK class flatbottom with a Corvette spec'd 327 with a V-Drive, that will make you Smile , like none of the other watercraft. We drove from Portland, OR to Gardena, CA 2 weeks before my 3rd Birthday, and picked her up at the factory. Mom was the original owner, and passed her on to me two years ago on Father's Day. I couldn't have asked for a Better gift
Different people enjoy different things, what matters is Enjoying what you have
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
GrampMany people in our region switched from snowmobiling to ATVs for recreation because of lower snow winters. They can be used year round, too.
tree68 54light15 Up until about 1972 there was always adequate snow on the trails but after that, there never was enough to ski on so the trails were abandoned. Such is the case with snowmobiling around here, and a key factor in the Adirondack Rail Corridor fight. I figure it takes at least eight inches of packed snow to be able to sled on the corridor/tracks, and there have been less and less days each year where that was the case.
54light15 Up until about 1972 there was always adequate snow on the trails but after that, there never was enough to ski on so the trails were abandoned.
Such is the case with snowmobiling around here, and a key factor in the Adirondack Rail Corridor fight. I figure it takes at least eight inches of packed snow to be able to sled on the corridor/tracks, and there have been less and less days each year where that was the case.
Many people in our region switched from snowmobiling to ATVs for recreation because of lower snow winters. They can be used year round, too.
Thank You.
Regarding the cold cycle, we used to go skiing in SW Massachusetts from about 1967 onward. The main slopes all had snow-making equipment and the smaller trails didn't. Up until about 1972 there was always adequate snow on the trails but after that, there never was enough to ski on so the trails were abandoned. We had to ski on the main slopes only and that sure got boring after a while. Man-made snow by the end of the day would be scraped away and we had to ski on bare ice. Not fun and I gave up on skiiing by 1980 or so. Couldn't afford it once my parents weren't paying for it.
I remember reading a long time ago that in the very early days of railroading, one winter New York City experienced such a river freeze that a track was laid across one of the rivers. It may have been the Hudson as I believe the freight cars (only) went from NJ to NYC. The hauling was done by horse power one car at a time and a decent distance seperating the cars while crossing. Keep in mind that the earlier freight cars were tiny midgets compared to today's.
Supposedly, the last cold cycle ended in the US sometime in the late 1840's but for sure by 1850. Then the weather started changing to the warming trend that continues today. But the final years of the cold/hot cycles are supposedly the most extreme so it would have been darn cold during those 1840's winters in the Northeast. The most famous of the cold years was 1816 when it snowed in July. [Actually about a 3 year period when an Italian valcano erupted in 1815 and darkend the sky over Europe and North America for almost 3 years.]
GrampEven found to have artifacts exhibiting cannibalism.
Don't rock the boat man. Your going against the narrative.....heh-heh.
On a less sarcastic note, I think the railroad history of Wisconsin in particular is a really fascinating one, expecially the narrow gauge lines in the SW.
Lefty142 There is indeed a locomotive sitting sunk in the mud West of Rock Lake. There is a basic description on the Tyranena Brewing Company website. The wreck is located somewhere between Lake Mills, WI and Cottage Grove, WI on the Glacial Drumlin Bicycle Trail. Another highlight of the trail is that there was a robber's hideaway, back in the 1800's. Sadly, I was on the trail recently and the signs for these sights seem to have disappeared.
There is indeed a locomotive sitting sunk in the mud West of Rock Lake. There is a basic description on the Tyranena Brewing Company website. The wreck is located somewhere between Lake Mills, WI and Cottage Grove, WI on the Glacial Drumlin Bicycle Trail. Another highlight of the trail is that there was a robber's hideaway, back in the 1800's. Sadly, I was on the trail recently and the signs for these sights seem to have disappeared.
Have biked that trail, too. Former C&NW. It's thought that there are pyramidal structures deep in Rock Lake. Nearby Aztalan is an archaeological site thought to go back to 1000 AD. Even found to have artifacts exhibiting cannibalism.
Semper Vaporo Yes, Steam Locos were used on frozen lakes and rivers, but not the size of a mainline standard gauge engine... no Yellowstones, or Big Boys. Small, narrow gauge 0-4-0's on short sections of track with the ties laid directly on the ice. Some small steam locos could be moved around by a couple of men if it derailed, so it would not be THAT heavy. And note this lake is in Wisconsin (though only about 35 miles from the border with Illinois), But not southern Illinois where a frozen lake might be questionable for physical support.
Yes, Steam Locos were used on frozen lakes and rivers, but not the size of a mainline standard gauge engine... no Yellowstones, or Big Boys.
Small, narrow gauge 0-4-0's on short sections of track with the ties laid directly on the ice. Some small steam locos could be moved around by a couple of men if it derailed, so it would not be THAT heavy.
And note this lake is in Wisconsin (though only about 35 miles from the border with Illinois), But not southern Illinois where a frozen lake might be questionable for physical support.
If that was done at all as a practice I would think it would be fairly rare. As mentioned earlier primary methods used were horses and sleds or just floating the ice blocks from the center of the lake to the edges by people walking alongside cut canals with ice pick poles. A number of railroads in SE Wisconsin had small Ice House sprurs to local lakes including the Milwaukee Road. The spurs were not very long from the main branch or mainline. Milwaukee Roads Twin Cities Mainline went through a large patch of ice producing lakes in Waukesha County and in that circumstance the spurs went just a short distance from the mainline to reach the ice house. Pewaukee Lake was a large producer and had two large ice houses next two it at one time and several large resort hotels within walking distance of the passenger depot. It is amazing how similar Ice Tongs and Railroad Tie carrying tongs look in appearance. I tend to believe there was some dual use going on there. A friend of the family had old Ice Tongs for harvesting he found scuba diving a local area lake in Wisconsin that he also used to carry old Railroad ties away to use for landscaping..........see below:
Ice Tongs:
https://i.etsystatic.com/11732248/r/il/60ea97/4118493109/il_1588xN.4118493109_b8fl.jpg
Railroad Tie Tongs:
https://cdn.hibid.com/img.axd?id=5156056699&wid=&rwl=false&p=&ext=&w=0&h=0&t=&lp=&c=true&wt=false&sz=MAX&checksum=yCgyPqOGSln3V5aBF8wTi73AAg0nV7hS
In the 50's, My father took us, the whole family, ice fishing on Saginaw Bay and Lake Huron off Tawas City, Mi. He drove the car out on the ice to fish. At Tawas he drove a mile or so out as I recall. Hated those COLD!!! trips, but he was a diehard fisherman. He gave up after 3 or 4 tries, probably tired of all the complaining.
rdamon Sounds like the making for a series on the Discovery Channel
Sounds like the making for a series on the Discovery Channel
WELL!!: It is not the Discovery Channel;but it is the HISTORY Channel !
Deja vu , all over again! "The Curse of Civil War Gold" Apparently, it is scheduled to pick up again this Spring.[2nd season, after a 1 yr delay.].. More TV to binge watch while self-quarantined!
see link @ https://www.mlive.com/news/erry-2018/04/eb202543c18212/what_we_learned_from_historys.html
"...
It comes more than a year after the finale of the first season that ended on a cliff hanger when the stars of the show reviewed a dive video that they believed revealed a partially buried gold bar at the bottom of Lake Michigan near Frankfort.
They’re searching for $140 million worth of gold bars believed to be in the lake.
“One thing you can’t do is, you can’t quit now,” said Michigan-based treasure hunter Marty Lagina at the conclusion of “Curse of Civil War Gold.” Lagina also starts in a similar show "The Curse of Oak Island.”..."
So where are Chad T., and his popcorn machine, now ???
Recovery from a lake would probably not be an easy job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8pLzhjJY1s
tree68 MidlandMike But still it seems like every year, local news reports some ones pickup would break thru the ice. I once thought about driving on the ice, but insurance would not cover it, you have to cover the cost of recovery, and then pay the environmental fine. My uncle was a diver with the Oakland County Sheriff's Department in the 1960's. They did a vehicle recovery (no lives were lost) one year after a carload of kids ventured onto the ice, I think it was with a Corvair. The ice "bellied" under the weight of the car, making it uphill in all directions, thus impossible to drive out of. The kids bailed and the car sunk.
MidlandMike But still it seems like every year, local news reports some ones pickup would break thru the ice. I once thought about driving on the ice, but insurance would not cover it, you have to cover the cost of recovery, and then pay the environmental fine.
My uncle was a diver with the Oakland County Sheriff's Department in the 1960's. They did a vehicle recovery (no lives were lost) one year after a carload of kids ventured onto the ice, I think it was with a Corvair.
The ice "bellied" under the weight of the car, making it uphill in all directions, thus impossible to drive out of. The kids bailed and the car sunk.
Then, of course, there was this incident in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin four years ago:
https://fox6now.com/2016/02/06/breaking-several-cars-fall-through-ice-at-lake-genevas-winterfest/
This thread is reminiscent of the (very) long-running sort of controversy on RyPN about 'locomotives sunk in flooded quarries'. As with Hissos 'formerly the property of Alfonso XIII himself' the rumors are far more numerous than the actual engines and cars... sometimes notoriously. Len Shaner is one of the more famous poster children for this trope...
MidlandMikeIn my town in northern Michigan (long before I was born) horses sleds pulled the ice off the lake to the ice house, and the ice sat there until it was shipped out by rail thru the summer. I find it hard to believe that steam engines ventured out on to ice in Illinois.
So I know quite a bit about the Milwaukee Road Ice Operations from living in the Lake Country of Waukesha County, WI. The Ice would never get thick enough to support a train on it so no they would not lay spurs onto the frozen lake surface. As stated previously the very most they would do would have a horse and buckboard go out on the lake to gather the Ice but most of the time the Ice was not thick enough for that. Primarily what they did was cut channels into the lake and float the ice to the shores after cutting it then use ice tongs onto a buckboard with sawdust, they used a lot of sawdust from local sawmills to seperate the ice into layers and to keep the layers from melting and freezing together.
The railroad spurs as you called them were usually along the mainline and only to an Icehouse. The Icehouse would be regionally supplied by local lakes and buckboards and would be of primarily batten board type wood construction. They would fill the ice houses with ice up to the part where the roof line started and again use sawdust to seperate the ice layers and cubes from one another. The railroad would use refer cars and either haul the ice into the cities (for industries such as breweries that used lots of ice) or they would send them to various locations along the line where they would have a need to re-ice a refer while in transit (not always a large city).
Amazingly in Wisconsin the Ice would not all melt in the high temperatures of summer in the ice house and some of it remained well into the next winter. Milwaukee Road had a lot of sidings in the lake country in various hick towns near lakes for Ice Traffic. Ice Traffic was not really that profitable and like pulp wood traffic of today had a very short haul to it's destination in most cases. Not sure about Southern Cities though and if they got their Ice from the midwest maybe in that case the haul was longer. I only know about the ICE trade between the laker country of Waukesha County and the City of Milwaukee.
tree68Visit many north country lakes in the dead of a good, cold winter and you'll see full sized pickups on the ice, often parked next to ice fishing shanties. The curb weight of a full-sized pickup these days is on the order of 2.5 tons.
I live in northern Michigan, where people often drive their pickup trucks on the frozen lakes. A few decades ago the local Lions club would have a fundraiser where they would leave an old junk pickup on the ice, and run a pool to see who could guess the date and time when the vehicle would sink thru. Even after draining the crankcase it would still leave a mess, so now they use a tiny shed tethered to the shore. But still it seems like every year, local news reports some ones pickup would break thru the ice. I once thought about driving on the ice, but insurance would not cover it, you have to cover the cost of recovery, and then pay the environmental fine.
I did ride once in a large horse drawn sleigh on the ice. From that I know about how flexible the ice can be. They say the horses know when the ice is safe, and will refuse to go out on it if it's not safe.
kenotrainnut Euclid It looks like Rock Lake is about 30 miles north of the east-west boundary between Wisconsin and Illinois. I'm pretty sure the Rock Lake that is the subject of this thread is just across the border (barely a quarter mile) from Antioch (I live in Kenosha, WI). If you go on Google Maps and pull up Antioch, IL, then go straight north and just a tiny bit west, you'll see Rock Lake to the west of Hwy 83. It's bordered on the west by Rock Lake Rd. The CN mainline (former Soo Line) runs just east of the lake, so a rail spur in this location would be very plausible. Kenosha County had a very robust ice harvesting industry in the late 1800s and early 1900s. In fact, it was a major winter commodity for the Kenosha & Rockford (later Chicago & Northwestern) line that ran west from Kenosha through Bristol and Twin Lakes to Genoa City and Harvard, IL (most of it was abandoned in the 1930s). Part of the old rail grade is now the "Ice House Trail" running east from downtown Twin Lakes to Bassett.
Euclid It looks like Rock Lake is about 30 miles north of the east-west boundary between Wisconsin and Illinois.
It looks like Rock Lake is about 30 miles north of the east-west boundary between Wisconsin and Illinois.
I'm pretty sure the Rock Lake that is the subject of this thread is just across the border (barely a quarter mile) from Antioch (I live in Kenosha, WI). If you go on Google Maps and pull up Antioch, IL, then go straight north and just a tiny bit west, you'll see Rock Lake to the west of Hwy 83. It's bordered on the west by Rock Lake Rd. The CN mainline (former Soo Line) runs just east of the lake, so a rail spur in this location would be very plausible.
Kenosha County had a very robust ice harvesting industry in the late 1800s and early 1900s. In fact, it was a major winter commodity for the Kenosha & Rockford (later Chicago & Northwestern) line that ran west from Kenosha through Bristol and Twin Lakes to Genoa City and Harvard, IL (most of it was abandoned in the 1930s). Part of the old rail grade is now the "Ice House Trail" running east from downtown Twin Lakes to Bassett.
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