MP 173,
I would expect this shipment to have moved on a through rate, but have no idea what the rate authority was: tariff, letter quote, or contract.
In my experience through rates and routes were the norm. Rule 11 is sometimes used when the origiating or terminating carrier is a short line, particularly if the Class 1 connection has doubts about the financial stability of the short line. The Seattle and North Coast for example, participated in joint rates and routes nationwide and had virtually all originating traffic, freight prepaid. When they went bankrupt, the Class Ones as a group were out over $10 million for interline ballances not paid.
Mac
Ed:
I spent 40 years as a rail shipper and for the longest time; the railroads favored through rates.
I retired last May and for my last year of working; UP in particular and, to a lesser extent BNSF and CN were attempting to shift contract renewals from through rates to Rule 11's. No one ever provided a rationale for this but; since we were shipping hazmat, I figured they were attempting to establish boundaries for liability.
Curt
Mac:I know we have discussed this in the past, but it has been awhile. I am a old "rate man" from LTL trucking and understand (or understood in the 80's) most tariffs and restrictions.
Are most rates today, such as this one between CN and BNSF thru rates from point of origin to destination, or are these combination rates with a CN rate from origin to Chicago (or point of interchange) with BNSF then having a local rate from point of origin to destination?
Ed
Murphy,
"Real time" car location reporting has been around for about 50 years. Arrivial at and departure from yards is reported. Change in load/empty status is reported. Interchange is reported. You do not have a reporting problem.
Your discussion of that car of lumber seems to be based on the fact that the car moved on a circuitous route you did not expect. If I remember correctly, Two Harbors is on the DM&IR which is now CN. Was the car routed CN-Chicago-BNSF? I would have routed the car to be interchanged at Duluth. Remember that the shipper has the absolute right to route the car, but must be sure that there is a 'good' rate aplicable to the route. Also remember that the origin carrier will almost always route any car not routed by the shipper to generate the longest haul available to it. If CN got a bill of lading that says CN-BNSF I would expect to find that they interchanged it off to BNSF at Chicago, despite the fact that a Chicago junction is a terrible route in terms of transit time and total railroad network mileage.
If you intend to buy from this supplier again, look first at the bill of lading, and then contact your BNSF marketing rep, if you can find him/her, to be sure that you can route over Duluth without a rate penalty. Then instruct the supplier to route ONLY CN-Duluth-BNSF. If you have a contract with the supplier, you can put that route in the contract with a monetary penalty for every car they misroute.
The entire issue of routes and rates via routes has changed markedly with deregulation. You may remember the regulated days when transcontinental lumber rates applied over a host of routes, many of which made no sense for the carriers but were exploited by lumber brokers who would route a car from Washington state to Chicago, not by the good service route of GN or NP Minneapolis CBQ, MILW, RI, or CNW, but by a 'turkey trail' route like GN-Huron(SD) CNW. They did this to add a week or so to the transit time, giving them more time to sell the load. Most of that disapperared shortly after the Staggers Act which allowed the carriers to stop being stupid. Now they could charge a higher rate for the higher cost slow route. Once they started doing that, the roller cars and brokers went away over time.
In your situation, it is possible that the rate for a Duluth route MAY be cheaper than a Chicago route. The point is that rates apply via specific routes. I would not trust a vendor to go to the trouble to determine the lowest rate route for a car he is shipping collect. He should, as it affects his competitive position as a supplier, but I would not count on it.
test
Each of the Class 1 carriers have THEIR OWN car and train data systems to keep track of cars on their property. The software that drives these systems is proprietary for each carrier.
To understand a cars movement on a carrier you have to be knowledgeable on how the carriers systemwide operations plan works. In the efforts to minimize switching, some of the moves cars make are counter-intuitive to a layman's thought processes of how the carrier goes about its business.
The only Car & Train system I am familiar with is CSX's. On CSX, trains (yard engines & Locals) that actually place and pull cars from customer facilities have their Conductor equipped with a tablet that operates the company's 'On Board Work Order System'. The Conductor updates his actions at each customer in identifying the cars actually placed and pulled at the customer as wells as identifying intra-plant switching moves the customer directs the crew to perform.
With other carriers YMMV.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
As noted, AEI tells you when a car has passed a reader, but that's all. I believe you'll find GPS only on high-value cars at present, and I think that data goes back to the car owner, not the railroad.
Knowing when the car is actually spotted will require some form of manual input, and I have no idea what that is. It might be something on-line (like the package services seem to use), or it might be something that isn't done until the train hits it's terminal. It might require hand-keying data.
Someone familiar with how the locals work on that railroad would have to fill us in on the details.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The current car tracking system used by North American railroads is called AEI (automatic equipment identification). In my experience it is normally quite accurate, and scan results of trains and individual cars appear almost instantaneously in our internal computer system that is accessible to employees, once a train has finished passing over a scanner.
CN still uses the SRS program internally, which I believe was originally developed by Santa Fe back in the 1980s. It certainly looks that old, just like the employee pay program (CATS). This is what the AEI scanners interact with, and it in turn will have to interact with whatever system the customer uses. That interaction, or lack thereof, is probably where your problem is happening.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Murphy Siding BNSF has an online portal I can use to track incoming cars to our business. 'Trouble is, it's wildly inaccurate and I don't understand why. We have a car coming to Harrisburg SD from Two Harbors, MN. A couple days ago, the website showed our car near Chicago. Today it shows our car in Waverley NE. Yesterday we saw the car go by on the mainline, meaning they spotted it tonight on the trip back in, as is their routine. Tommorrow we will unload it and release it back to BNSF. Thursday or Friday BNSF's website will tell us the car has been spotted. It seems like for BNSF to be able to track cars, the information would need to be sent directly to the home planet every time a car passed a control point. Isn't it called an IED or something on the cars that get read? We get one to three cars at time and don't have to deal with just-in-time logistics. If we were a business that did lots of cars and depended on accurate delivery information we would be pulling our hair out.
BNSF has an online portal I can use to track incoming cars to our business. 'Trouble is, it's wildly inaccurate and I don't understand why. We have a car coming to Harrisburg SD from Two Harbors, MN. A couple days ago, the website showed our car near Chicago. Today it shows our car in Waverley NE. Yesterday we saw the car go by on the mainline, meaning they spotted it tonight on the trip back in, as is their routine. Tommorrow we will unload it and release it back to BNSF. Thursday or Friday BNSF's website will tell us the car has been spotted. It seems like for BNSF to be able to track cars, the information would need to be sent directly to the home planet every time a car passed a control point. Isn't it called an IED or something on the cars that get read? We get one to three cars at time and don't have to deal with just-in-time logistics. If we were a business that did lots of cars and depended on accurate delivery information we would be pulling our hair out.
I don't work in the railroad industry, but I've been in IT for over 30 years, and the technology to track a rail car at or near real-time has existed for at least as long as portable GPS devices have been available for your car. Can't understand why it's apparently so difficult for a railroad to give you accurate, current car tracking information.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
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