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Mildly irritating.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 14, 2020 5:48 PM

oltmannd
 
Murphy Siding 
BaltACD 
Murphy Siding
     Our car showed up yesterday afternoon. As of this mornig, the website still shows it about 110 miles away. 

Do you know if the web site you are accessing is updated in real time or on a batch basis?

If it is real time - you experience shows it is not.  If it is a batch update, your placing report missed the cutoff for the batch you are looking at. 

I think you solved my mystery. I figured that the technolgy would allow it to be reported in real time. It probably does- to the railroad where it's nice to know things like that in real time. I'd imagine that the customer portal is onky updated once a day. 

Oh, my.  That's really dumb.  It should be hitting the live car inventory data.  It exists and is shared with the AAR-Railinc.  

For line of road movements, the data is near real time.  AEI scanners are generally used to verify consists and occasionally do location arrival and departure messages.  Often the arrivals and departures can come from the train arrival and departure which more often than not these days, can come from locomotive GPS with geo-fencing.  So, that data is pretty accurate.  

When a local goes out on the road, things get a bit iffier.  If the RR uses a hand held reporting device, it's possible that the crew can report placements and pulls in near real time.  Sometimes, they will kinda save'em all up and do them once back at their yard.  In the paper days, the crew would fax them in when they tie up and a yard clerk would type them all in - so their could be a sizeable delay (and lots more errors)

I can't believe that BNSF does not have a near real time web portal for customers to track their pipeline.  NS has had one for nearly 20 years.  (ex-Conrail guys were responsible for putting the data up and building the portal.  Both of us are retired, now.)

You get what you pay for.  Free access will be less timely than paid access.  Carriers reserve real time access to those that, one way or another, pay for the PRIVLEDGE.

Railinc is not a free service of the AAR.

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, March 14, 2020 4:49 PM

BaltACD

 

 
York1
I have no connection with railroads, so my question is from the outside.

Could knowing a car's location cause any security concerns?  Is anything ever shipped that a terrorist group may want to know about, or where it is?

 

MOST military shipemts are handled using DODX freight cars (DOD = Department of Defense).  I don't know what specific actions are taken concerning DODX cars, that being said, I suspect they are not reported to the general 'customer viewable' data bases.  I suspect DODX tracing is limited to internal railroad personnel and to the appropriate offices of the military.

The reporting Murphy Siding is seeing is nominally delayed sufficiently that it will be of little to no value in trying to plan a real time terrorist issue with any car(s).

Customers that deal in HAZMAT are well known - what security actions those shipper/consignees are taking as well as the railroad security actions are not publicized.

 

 

Thanks for the info, Balt!

York1 John       

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Posted by Juniata Man on Saturday, March 14, 2020 4:45 PM

The way the tracing systems work; you must be a party to the waybill to obtain info either from the various railroad systems or those provided by third parties.  

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Posted by oltmannd on Saturday, March 14, 2020 4:29 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
BaltACD

 

 
Murphy Siding
     Our car showed up yesterday afternoon. As of this mornig, the website still shows it about 110 miles away.

 

Do you know if the web site you are accessing is updated in real time or on a batch basis?

If it is real time - you experience shows it is not.  If it is a batch update, your placing report missed the cutoff for the batch you are looking at.

 

 

 

I think you solved my mystery. I figured that the technolgy would allow it to be reported in real time. It probably does- to the railroad where it's nice to know things like that in real time. I'd imagine that the customer portal is onky updated once a day.

 

 

Oh, my.  That's really dumb.  It should be hitting the live car inventory data.  It exists and is shared with the AAR-Railinc.  

For line of road movements, the data is near real time.  AEI scanners are generally used to verify consists and occasionally do location arrival and departure messages.  Often the arrivals and departures can come from the train arrival and departure which more often than not these days, can come from locomotive GPS with geo-fencing.  So, that data is pretty accurate.  

When a local goes out on the road, things get a bit iffier.  If the RR uses a hand held reporting device, it's possible that the crew can report placements and pulls in near real time.  Sometimes, they will kinda save'em all up and do them once back at their yard.  In the paper days, the crew would fax them in when they tie up and a yard clerk would type them all in - so their could be a sizeable delay (and lots more errors)

I can't believe that BNSF does not have a near real time web portal for customers to track their pipeline.  NS has had one for nearly 20 years.  (ex-Conrail guys were responsible for putting the data up and building the portal.  Both of us are retired, now.)

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 14, 2020 4:09 PM

York1
I have no connection with railroads, so my question is from the outside.

Could knowing a car's location cause any security concerns?  Is anything ever shipped that a terrorist group may want to know about, or where it is?

MOST military shipemts are handled using DODX freight cars (DOD = Department of Defense).  I don't know what specific actions are taken concerning DODX cars, that being said, I suspect they are not reported to the general 'customer viewable' data bases.  I suspect DODX tracing is limited to internal railroad personnel and to the appropriate offices of the military.

The reporting Murphy Siding is seeing is nominally delayed sufficiently that it will be of little to no value in trying to plan a real time terrorist issue with any car(s).

Customers that deal in HAZMAT are well known - what security actions those shipper/consignees are taking as well as the railroad security actions are not publicized.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:38 PM

I have no connection with railroads, so my question is from the outside.

Could knowing a car's location cause any security concerns?  Is anything ever shipped that a terrorist group may want to know about, or where it is?

York1 John       

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:32 PM

In a sensibly-designed query system -- which this might well not be -- the car-location information would be fetched from current information 'on demand' at or near the time the customer makes the request.  But where the information is fetched from then becomes the situation.

Security concerns alone indicate the 'customer-accessible' information will be in some kind of data warehouse, perhaps periodically batch-updated from a potential variety of sources.  The changes must be made coherently in what corresponds to a 'batch transaction', fully completed and tested before any 'old' values are swapped out.  Under PSR one of the first 'economies' I can see being made in personnel are clerks updating the customer-convenience tracking portal feature... so there may be some latency in the periodic updates to the data-warehouse 'storage'.

We certainly have some measure of this in the reported incidence, where it's pretty clear that neither the AEI data nor any kind of delivery report is being put into data ... wel, perhaps even on a 'daily' basis like a bank deposit post.  Even net of customer security or corporate competition-driven secrecy, this seems more than a little extreme.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 14, 2020 1:40 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Murphy Siding
     Our car showed up yesterday afternoon. As of this mornig, the website still shows it about 110 miles away.

 

Do you know if the web site you are accessing is updated in real time or on a batch basis?

If it is real time - you experience shows it is not.  If it is a batch update, your placing report missed the cutoff for the batch you are looking at.

 

I think you solved my mystery. I figured that the technolgy would allow it to be reported in real time. It probably does- to the railroad where it's nice to know things like that in real time. I'd imagine that the customer portal is onky updated once a day.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 14, 2020 12:07 PM

Murphy Siding
     Our car showed up yesterday afternoon. As of this mornig, the website still shows it about 110 miles away.

Do you know if the web site you are accessing is updated in real time or on a batch basis?

If it is real time - you experience shows it is not.  If it is a batch update, your placing report missed the cutoff for the batch you are looking at.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, March 14, 2020 10:25 AM

Murphy Siding
     Our car showed up yesterday afternoon. As of this mornig, the website still shows it about 110 miles away.

Quick, unload it before they figure out you have it!

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 14, 2020 10:25 AM

     Our car showed up yesterday afternoon. As of this mornig, the website still shows it about 110 miles away.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, March 12, 2020 9:17 PM

GERALD L MCFARLANE JR

 

 
Murphy Siding

 tree68

 

 
Murphy Siding
The part I can't get my head around is that it seems BNSF should have the software in place that updates location of a car when it passes a checkpoint. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Last year we had a car from Washington that forgot to turn left at Omaha. We were able to follow it through every checkpoint in Iowa until it decided to head our way again. 

 

It all depends on where the AEI readers are.  

 Aren't they on both sides of the cars? 

 

 

 

It's not the AEI tag on the car, it's the location of the AEI Readers along the right of way, they don't put them every 10 miles, only were it makes sense both economically and for ease of maintenace from the RR's point of view.

 

Understood. Our cars would pass a reader at Garretson (a crossroads), Sioux Falls (major yard), past us at Harrisburg, a propane operation with a spur, Canton (crossroad) Chancellor (ethanol plant), Parker (elevator), and Marion (ethanol plant, grain elevator and turnaround point to send the car back to Harrisburg.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, March 12, 2020 9:01 PM
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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, March 12, 2020 8:58 PM

York1

I use Chrome and I'm signed into Google, and I can't see the image. 

Ditto.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, March 12, 2020 8:16 PM

GERALD L MCFARLANE JR

It's not the AEI tag on the car, it's the location of the AEI Readers along the right of way, they don't put them every 10 miles, only were it makes sense both economically and for ease of maintenace from the RR's point of view.

CN has AEI readers at or near the entrances to each yard or terminal, often several miles out.  On my territory a train will travel at most 130 miles between readers, and some subdivisions have them located at strategic points enroute.

Some large customers have their own AEI readers at their plant sites.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by GERALD L MCFARLANE JR on Thursday, March 12, 2020 7:30 PM

Murphy Siding

 tree68

 

 
Murphy Siding
The part I can't get my head around is that it seems BNSF should have the software in place that updates location of a car when it passes a checkpoint. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Last year we had a car from Washington that forgot to turn left at Omaha. We were able to follow it through every checkpoint in Iowa until it decided to head our way again. 

 

It all depends on where the AEI readers are.  

 Aren't they on both sides of the cars? 

 

It's not the AEI tag on the car, it's the location of the AEI Readers along the right of way, they don't put them every 10 miles, only were it makes sense both economically and for ease of maintenace from the RR's point of view.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 12, 2020 6:51 PM

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, March 12, 2020 6:18 PM

Can't see anything in Firefox on my PC.

Using Chrome (not signed in) on my Android phone, I only see a little error square.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, March 12, 2020 6:12 PM

I use Chrome and I'm signed into Google, and I can't see the image.

York1 John       

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Posted by blhanel on Thursday, March 12, 2020 6:01 PM

I saw it earlier but can't see it now.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 12, 2020 5:58 PM

Semper Vaporo
@ Tree... your image didn't show up... something about a Google "forbidden folder"... I make the assumption you have the image stored on a Google server, but it is not open to access to anybody but you.

I use Chrome (which is a Google product) as my browser and the picture comes through find, I haven't tried with Edge or Firefox.

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, March 12, 2020 5:12 PM

@ Tree... your image didn't show up... something about a Google "forbidden folder"... I make the assumption you have the image stored on a Google server, but it is not open to access to anybody but you.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 12, 2020 7:21 AM

This is an example of a reader:

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 10:00 PM

CShaveRR
There are AEI tags on both sides of the cars (lack of a tag will show on the generated report).  The readers are in what might be considered strategic locations for the railroad in question.

On CSX, both sides are read.  When one or both sides don't read, reports are sent to the Car Dept. so the matter can be taken care of at the earliest opportunity.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by CShaveRR on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 9:10 PM

There are AEI tags on both sides of the cars (lack of a tag will show on the generated report).  The readers are in what might be considered strategic locations for the railroad in question.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 8:13 PM

tree68

 

 
Murphy Siding
The part I can't get my head around is that it seems BNSF should have the software in place that updates location of a car when it passes a checkpoint. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Last year we had a car from Washington that forgot to turn left at Omaha. We were able to follow it through every checkpoint in Iowa until it decided to head our way again. 

 

It all depends on where the AEI readers are.  

 

Aren't they on both sides of the cars?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 7:58 PM

Murphy Siding
The part I can't get my head around is that it seems BNSF should have the software in place that updates location of a car when it passes a checkpoint. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Last year we had a car from Washington that forgot to turn left at Omaha. We were able to follow it through every checkpoint in Iowa until it decided to head our way again. 

It all depends on where the AEI readers are.  

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 7:37 PM

jeffhergert

From Murphy's first post, I don't think it's the routing.  He said they watched it go past their facility YESTERDAY and it shows in tracing as at Waverly, NE TODAY.  I believe Waverly is just outside of the yard complex at Lincoln.

Murphy, did they spot your car like you thought?  I looked at a view of Harrisburg SD and it looks like your industry needs to be worked by a northbound train.  If you saw the car go south, maybe they didn't set it out and took it all the way to Lincoln.  (Buffett said they were looking at some of parts of PSR to possibly implement.  Maybe they're trying out the enhanced customer service portion on you. Laugh)

Jeff 

 

   I understand the circuitous route. The shipper is on CN and probably has a good working relationship with them. As such, that prbably affects how far the car ships on CN before switching to another railroad. Work with the people who work with you.

      Our switch does face northi the direction that the cars come from. We're used to watching them roll past one day and roll back the next to be backed into our spur. The local goes pat us on a 50 mile route, does a u-turn and comes back the next day. 

      The part I can't get my head around is that it seems BNSF should have the software in place that updates location of a car when it passes a checkpoint. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Last year we had a car from Washington that forgot to turn left at Omaha. We were able to follow it through every checkpoint in Iowa until it decided to head our way again. 

     


Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 4:44 PM

From Murphy's first post, I don't think it's the routing.  He said they watched it go past their facility YESTERDAY and it shows in tracing as at Waverly, NE TODAY.  I believe Waverly is just outside of the yard complex at Lincoln.

Murphy, did they spot your car like you thought?  I looked at a view of Harrisburg SD and it looks like your industry needs to be worked by a northbound train.  If you saw the car go south, maybe they didn't set it out and took it all the way to Lincoln.  (Buffett said they were looking at some of parts of PSR to possibly implement.  Maybe they're trying out the enhanced customer service portion on you. Laugh)

Jeff 

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