Concerning people who are in over their heads and do not know it, think of the pointy-haired boss in the "Dilbert" comic strip.
Johnny
daveklepperHave any of you been in a position in life where a lot was expected of you, perhaps in several areas, not just one, and you simply felt terribly inadequate to fullfill even of a large fraction of all that life seemed to demand from you?
There is a large and growing literature on the 'Impostor Syndrome' (which is like a contrapositive of the Peter Principle). Interestingly enough, I have seen repeated studies that indicate that actually-qualified people have much more anxiety and perceived question about their performance than people actually 'in over their heads' in a complex situation.
It would be nice, of course, if society had the resources and maturity to support people in their actual achievements, while providing feedback and guidance for how to improve in the 'other areas'. It would be even nicer if we could point to something selfless and absolute, like science, as a guide. Unfortunately 'science' as practiced in nearly any discipline in the postwar years has been all too often a poster child for what NOT to do ... either with peers or with others with a need or want to know.
I had this discussion with a couple of people setting up 'suicide resources' in northwest Pennsylvania a couple of months ago. I thought it was interesting that despite considerable experience and study into the emotional components of suicide, very little consideration appears to have been given (in the context of precluding suicides, especially in college students) to the intellectual or academic side...
daveklepper Going back to the thread's subject, with a question: Have any of you been in a position in life where a lot was expected of you, perhaps in several areas, not just one, and you simply felt terribly inadequate to fullfill even of a large fraction of all that life seemed to demand from you?
Going back to the thread's subject, with a question:
Have any of you been in a position in life where a lot was expected of you, perhaps in several areas, not just one, and you simply felt terribly inadequate to fullfill even of a large fraction of all that life seemed to demand from you?
Hell yes.
Convicted One BaltACD Think you found the wrong person. The football player was Bryce Gowdy age 17. Thread drift doesn't bother him as much when he's the one steering.
BaltACD Think you found the wrong person. The football player was Bryce Gowdy age 17.
Thread drift doesn't bother him as much when he's the one steering.
Well now I'm curious. Which one of us are you talking about?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
BaltACDThink you found the wrong person. The football player was Bryce Gowdy age 17.
BaltACD Murphy Siding Found it. The young man's name was Isaac. He was 23. Here are some parts of the obituary: "Isaac...following a long struggle with depression, died by suicide on Saturday......We believe it is important to be candid with the nature of his death - in that he took his own life, and that he struggled with depression and mental illness for several years. We are proud of our son and love him very much. This is a terrible tragedy. We would like people to know that he was sick. We think he believed the lie that there is no hope from our broken condition......Please pray for our family as we learn to live our lives without Isaac being with us. He will be dearly missed. We are broken-hearted but want our loss to possibly help someone else who might be hurting. If you are struggling with depression or anxiety and hopelessness - your life matters. Please reach out for help you don't have to struggle alone! If you or someone you know needs help, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255). You can also text a crisis counselor by messaging 741741..." Think you found the wrong person. The football player was Bryce Gowdy age 17.
Murphy Siding Found it. The young man's name was Isaac. He was 23. Here are some parts of the obituary: "Isaac...following a long struggle with depression, died by suicide on Saturday......We believe it is important to be candid with the nature of his death - in that he took his own life, and that he struggled with depression and mental illness for several years. We are proud of our son and love him very much. This is a terrible tragedy. We would like people to know that he was sick. We think he believed the lie that there is no hope from our broken condition......Please pray for our family as we learn to live our lives without Isaac being with us. He will be dearly missed. We are broken-hearted but want our loss to possibly help someone else who might be hurting. If you are struggling with depression or anxiety and hopelessness - your life matters. Please reach out for help you don't have to struggle alone! If you or someone you know needs help, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255). You can also text a crisis counselor by messaging 741741..."
"Isaac...following a long struggle with depression, died by suicide on Saturday......We believe it is important to be candid with the nature of his death - in that he took his own life, and that he struggled with depression and mental illness for several years. We are proud of our son and love him very much. This is a terrible tragedy. We would like people to know that he was sick. We think he believed the lie that there is no hope from our broken condition......Please pray for our family as we learn to live our lives without Isaac being with us. He will be dearly missed. We are broken-hearted but want our loss to possibly help someone else who might be hurting. If you are struggling with depression or anxiety and hopelessness - your life matters. Please reach out for help you don't have to struggle alone! If you or someone you know needs help, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255). You can also text a crisis counselor by messaging 741741..."
Think you found the wrong person. The football player was Bryce Gowdy age 17.
Murphy SidingFound it. The young man's name was Isaac. He was 23. Here are some parts of the obituary: "Isaac...following a long struggle with depression, died by suicide on Saturday......We believe it is important to be candid with the nature of his death - in that he took his own life, and that he struggled with depression and mental illness for several years. We are proud of our son and love him very much. This is a terrible tragedy. We would like people to know that he was sick. We think he believed the lie that there is no hope from our broken condition......Please pray for our family as we learn to live our lives without Isaac being with us. He will be dearly missed. We are broken-hearted but want our loss to possibly help someone else who might be hurting. If you are struggling with depression or anxiety and hopelessness - your life matters. Please reach out for help you don't have to struggle alone! If you or someone you know needs help, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255). You can also text a crisis counselor by messaging 741741..."
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Found it. This is in reference to a young man I mentioned in my post at the bottom of page one. The young man's name was Isaac. He was 23. Here are some parts of the obituary:"Isaac...following a long struggle with depression, died by suicide on Saturday......We believe it is important to be candid with the nature of his death - in that he took his own life, and that he struggled with depression and mental illness for several years. We are proud of our son and love him very much. This is a terrible tragedy. We would like people to know that he was sick. We think he believed the lie that there is no hope from our broken condition......Please pray for our family as we learn to live our lives without Isaac being with us. He will be dearly missed. We are broken-hearted but want our loss to possibly help someone else who might be hurting. If you are struggling with depression or anxiety and hopelessness - your life matters. Please reach out for help you don't have to struggle alone! If you or someone you know needs help, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255). You can also text a crisis counselor by messaging 741741..."
Lithonia Operator Murphy Siding I'm not sure how this thread drifted so far but... This subject hits pretty close to home for me. Two years ago one of my employees took his life. He was my friend who had I worked beside for 29 years. It came right out of left field and left everybody he knew in shock. Our company offered grief counceling, but I was the only one out of 40 to take them up on it. Men, in general have a hard time dealing with emotions, more-so in talking to others about emotions. Being who I am, I shared all I learned with the rest of my crew of 17 guys. When someone commits suicide, the first thing out of everyone's mouth seems to be "how could anybody in their right mind do such a thing?" That's also the answer. In order to commit suicide, one is not in their right mind. For whatever reason, they have convinced themselves that this is their only option. All they want is for the pain to end. They never consider the effect it will have on those they leave behind. A week or so back there was an obituary in our paper for a young man who committed suicide. It said so right in the obit. His parents took the time to actually write about the problem of suicide and how to help people. I wish I could find that obit and send those people an award. I'd bet that 90% of the time, you can tell by reading an obit if it was suicide. For some reason, society gossips just need to know those sort of things. It's none of our business. That is information to be left for those grieving the loss of someone. It makes us no better off to know the details. Hug your kids, and tell them you love them. Excellent post, Murph. Yes, it's up to the families involved. If they find value in sharing the info, they by all means should do so. But in most cases (say Jefferey Epstein), I don't see this as a public's right to know situation.
Murphy Siding I'm not sure how this thread drifted so far but... This subject hits pretty close to home for me. Two years ago one of my employees took his life. He was my friend who had I worked beside for 29 years. It came right out of left field and left everybody he knew in shock. Our company offered grief counceling, but I was the only one out of 40 to take them up on it. Men, in general have a hard time dealing with emotions, more-so in talking to others about emotions. Being who I am, I shared all I learned with the rest of my crew of 17 guys. When someone commits suicide, the first thing out of everyone's mouth seems to be "how could anybody in their right mind do such a thing?" That's also the answer. In order to commit suicide, one is not in their right mind. For whatever reason, they have convinced themselves that this is their only option. All they want is for the pain to end. They never consider the effect it will have on those they leave behind. A week or so back there was an obituary in our paper for a young man who committed suicide. It said so right in the obit. His parents took the time to actually write about the problem of suicide and how to help people. I wish I could find that obit and send those people an award. I'd bet that 90% of the time, you can tell by reading an obit if it was suicide. For some reason, society gossips just need to know those sort of things. It's none of our business. That is information to be left for those grieving the loss of someone. It makes us no better off to know the details. Hug your kids, and tell them you love them.
I'm not sure how this thread drifted so far but... This subject hits pretty close to home for me. Two years ago one of my employees took his life. He was my friend who had I worked beside for 29 years. It came right out of left field and left everybody he knew in shock. Our company offered grief counceling, but I was the only one out of 40 to take them up on it. Men, in general have a hard time dealing with emotions, more-so in talking to others about emotions. Being who I am, I shared all I learned with the rest of my crew of 17 guys. When someone commits suicide, the first thing out of everyone's mouth seems to be "how could anybody in their right mind do such a thing?" That's also the answer. In order to commit suicide, one is not in their right mind. For whatever reason, they have convinced themselves that this is their only option. All they want is for the pain to end. They never consider the effect it will have on those they leave behind. A week or so back there was an obituary in our paper for a young man who committed suicide. It said so right in the obit. His parents took the time to actually write about the problem of suicide and how to help people. I wish I could find that obit and send those people an award. I'd bet that 90% of the time, you can tell by reading an obit if it was suicide. For some reason, society gossips just need to know those sort of things. It's none of our business. That is information to be left for those grieving the loss of someone. It makes us no better off to know the details. Hug your kids, and tell them you love them.
Excellent post, Murph.
Yes, it's up to the families involved. If they find value in sharing the info, they by all means should do so. But in most cases (say Jefferey Epstein), I don't see this as a public's right to know situation.
Being in Florida currently, and listening to Spots Talk Radio some further details were interjected into the 'equation'. The kid was homeless and basicly estranged from his mother account her own psychiatric instabilities of a long term duration. The kid was not in a 'Father Knows Best or Leave it to Beaver' kind of stable home life.
Lithonia Operator Hopefully, though, the general growing consciousness of the society on this subject leads more people to ask more questions of their loved ones.
I was thinking exactly that as I wrote that.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Lithonia Operator I'd concede that knowing that a young man with such a promising future killed himself might make family and friends be more proactive in trying to make sure their own loved ones are doing okay. Unfortunately, there can be two sides to that coin - it can, indeed, be a teaching moment, or it can be the "approval" someone considering suicide needs to do so themselves, ie, a copycat.
Lithonia Operator I'd concede that knowing that a young man with such a promising future killed himself might make family and friends be more proactive in trying to make sure their own loved ones are doing okay.
I'd concede that knowing that a young man with such a promising future killed himself might make family and friends be more proactive in trying to make sure their own loved ones are doing okay.
Unfortunately, there can be two sides to that coin - it can, indeed, be a teaching moment, or it can be the "approval" someone considering suicide needs to do so themselves, ie, a copycat.
Yep, that's the other side of that coin. Hopefully, though, the general growing consciousness of the society on this subject leads more people to ask more questions of their loved ones.
Freshman suicides are not unknown, although thankfully they're far from epidemic. It's the high-profile cases like this promising young athlete that get the most attention.
There was one such case at the University of Pennsylvania in 2014 involving a female star athlete from New Jersey named Madison Holleran. Very sad, but it did lead to the passage of some useful legislation. Here's the story, and click on the highlighted areas for more information.
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/08/01/madison-holleran-suicide-prevention-act/
Maddie's parents also started a foundation to address this issue as well.
https://www.madisonholleranfoundation.org
And by the way, Maddies suicide was just one of several at the U of P that year, but it was the high-profile one.
Needless to say this has nothing to do with railroading, but maybe I can do some good by putting the information out there for all to see.
A personal note here. The son of one of Lady Firestorm's sisters attended Northern Highlands High School with Maddie. He didn't date her, but knew her well as a fellow athlete. He was just as shocked as anyone by her suicide.
"All the news that's fit to print"--and not all details, especially those of pure speculation, are not fit to print,
Some time back there was an incident for which the media coverage never mentioned suicide, but for which were mentioned a number of factors that would lead one to the conclusion that such was the case. The reader just had to connect the dots.
greyhoundsThe public will know he's gone, and they should be informed as to why.
How about using a little more charitable wording? Such as "the coronor ruled out foul play as a cause".....something along those lines.
Lithonia OperatorBut say there's been gang-related shooting with no clear good guys or bad guys? How does it benefit the public to even know?
FWIW, 20 years ago while I lived in Los Angeles, the official policy of the Times was to publish nothing pertaining to gang on gang violence, because it was felt that publishing those stories gave the perps a "trophy" of sorts to flaunt, attesting to their prowess.
There were exceptions when innocents were collateral damage, but not often.
Public health and law enforcement officials will know about it without splashing it on the front page.
charlie hebdo Lithonia Operator Convicted and Balt, I agree with both of you; and this subject to me brings up a broader point: Do we need to know if it was foul play? Do we need to know if it was an accident? There are people who do need to know these things: cops, safety officials, etc. But is every death that is not from illness or old age really something that needs to be reported to the general public? I don't know what I think, frankly. Just food for thought. But sometimes I do feel that a lot of this is unnecessary. I mean, if there is a dangerous grade crossing, probably it's good for the public to know someone died there again, to reinforce the idea that motorists must use more care. But say there's been gang-related shooting with no clear good guys or bad guys? How does it benefit the public to even know? Sometimes death stories just seem like easy stories. I'd rather read a story about an inner-city priest who is finding ways to keep kids out of gangs. I agree with all three of you, Cknvjcted, Balt and Lithonia. That's what I actually meant before. Why shame his family? Maybe the reporting shows a racist bias. And some of the comments on here have been uninformed, pure speculation. Death from a train accident is tragic, period.
Lithonia Operator Convicted and Balt, I agree with both of you; and this subject to me brings up a broader point: Do we need to know if it was foul play? Do we need to know if it was an accident? There are people who do need to know these things: cops, safety officials, etc. But is every death that is not from illness or old age really something that needs to be reported to the general public? I don't know what I think, frankly. Just food for thought. But sometimes I do feel that a lot of this is unnecessary. I mean, if there is a dangerous grade crossing, probably it's good for the public to know someone died there again, to reinforce the idea that motorists must use more care. But say there's been gang-related shooting with no clear good guys or bad guys? How does it benefit the public to even know? Sometimes death stories just seem like easy stories. I'd rather read a story about an inner-city priest who is finding ways to keep kids out of gangs.
Convicted and Balt, I agree with both of you; and this subject to me brings up a broader point:
Do we need to know if it was foul play? Do we need to know if it was an accident?
There are people who do need to know these things: cops, safety officials, etc.
But is every death that is not from illness or old age really something that needs to be reported to the general public?
I don't know what I think, frankly. Just food for thought. But sometimes I do feel that a lot of this is unnecessary. I mean, if there is a dangerous grade crossing, probably it's good for the public to know someone died there again, to reinforce the idea that motorists must use more care.
But say there's been gang-related shooting with no clear good guys or bad guys? How does it benefit the public to even know? Sometimes death stories just seem like easy stories. I'd rather read a story about an inner-city priest who is finding ways to keep kids out of gangs.
I agree with all three of you, Cknvjcted, Balt and Lithonia. That's what I actually meant before.
Why shame his family? Maybe the reporting shows a racist bias. And some of the comments on here have been uninformed, pure speculation. Death from a train accident is tragic, period.
I find myself in the unusual situation of defending "The Media."
A young athletic man is sadly dead. That's not normal. People are going to know he's dead. So what do you want, a bunch of rumors?
The public health officials need to look in to such deaths. Physically healthy young people normally don't just die. When they do, the cause needs to be determined. The public will know he's gone, and they should be informed as to why.
I don't see this as "Shaming" anyone. Or, in anyway being "Racist." Just an honest reporting of facts.
God rest and bless his Soul.
I agree with all three of you, Convicted, Balt and Lithonia. That's what I actually meant before.
Supposedly the official "filter" that my local paper uses, if the departed acted in their own home, then the cause is not reported. But if they act in a public place, then all the news that's fit to print rules the moment.
Oddly, the debate currently making the local rounds centers on where those low-rent residential motels fall on that spectrum.
it's really sad that people have to suffer so, and all the worse that the media piles it even deeper.
Convicted One divebardave ruled a suicide?? Not sure why the papers find it so important to report that detail...even if it is true. It accomplishes nothing of a news worthy nature and only piles shame on the perp and their survivors. One would think that after the first hundred or so in a reporter's career, the novelty would finally wear off. It's sad that this kid gave up so much, so early in his life, for whatever reason. But by putting this stain on his legacy, the media only makes things worse.
divebardave ruled a suicide??
Not sure why the papers find it so important to report that detail...even if it is true. It accomplishes nothing of a news worthy nature and only piles shame on the perp and their survivors.
One would think that after the first hundred or so in a reporter's career, the novelty would finally wear off.
It's sad that this kid gave up so much, so early in his life, for whatever reason. But by putting this stain on his legacy, the media only makes things worse.
Considering the geographic location of the incident, I view that comment was placed with racist intent, without using the N word. The subtle form of racism in that more than likely that assessment would not have been published had the deceased been white.
divebardaveruled a suicide??
samfp1943 BaltACD divebardave ruled a suicide?? The kid is living the dream of every young man that plays ball..and so soon was there a camera on front of engine? "...Until you are in their body and in their head you have no idea of how they view their life. Your version of a dream life, may be their version of the 7th level of Hell..." Balt: You are probably closer to THE TRUTH, than you have ever imagined! Possibly, the most amazing part is that a couple of drunks, in a bar, could remember the story in that paper that was left on the bar.....
BaltACD divebardave ruled a suicide?? The kid is living the dream of every young man that plays ball..and so soon was there a camera on front of engine? "...Until you are in their body and in their head you have no idea of how they view their life. Your version of a dream life, may be their version of the 7th level of Hell..."
divebardave ruled a suicide?? The kid is living the dream of every young man that plays ball..and so soon was there a camera on front of engine?
"...Until you are in their body and in their head you have no idea of how they view their life. Your version of a dream life, may be their version of the 7th level of Hell..."
Balt:
You are probably closer to THE TRUTH, than you have ever imagined!
Possibly, the most amazing part is that a couple of drunks, in a bar, could remember the story in that paper that was left on the bar.....
Im confused, Sam. What are you referring to in the second paragraph?
A lot of wild speculation beyond what is actually known.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.