From the Veterans Administrtion Website, Suicide Prevention Management:
This blog is intended for providers who care for Veterans that are at risk of suicide. SRM provides free consultation, support, and resources that promote therapeutic best practices for the providers working with at-risk Veterans.
VA’s Suicide Risk Management Consultation Program (SRM) provides one free hour of consultation services for community or VA providers who work with Veterans at risk for suicide.
SRM consultants collaborate with providers and offer tailored, one-on-one support for risk assessment, conceptualization of suicide risk, lethal means safety counseling, strategies for how to engage Veterans at high risk in their own treatment, best practices for documentation, and provider support after a suicide loss (postvention). SRM’s expert consultation and resources promote best practices informed by research conducted in VA and in the community.
SRM experts only consult with PROVIDERS on suicide risk management and does not provide any direct care or support to Veterans. If you are a Veteran in crisis — or you’re concerned about one — free, confidential support is available 24/7. Call the Veterans Crisis Line at 1-800-273-8255 and Press 1, send a text message to 838255, or chat online. Find Veteran Suicide Prevention information and resources on the Veterans Crisis Line website.
Community leaders and other organizations working with Veterans may also request suicide prevention resources, information and education (e.g. presentations). Learning how to identify someone at risk of suicide and ways to offer support are popular examples.
The Suicide Risk Management Consultation Program (SRM) is ensuring providers have access to suicide prevention resources to continuously improve Veteran care both inside and outside VA.
Once a provider submits an email request for consultation, an SRM staff member schedules a time to speak with them. Staff can also answer a question via email if preferred.
In the SRM staff’s reply to the provider is an included triage form for the provider/applicant to complete and return. Providers complete and submit the triage form prior to the scheduled consultation. All information discussed during the consultation process is confidential.
To request a consult, or to learn more, please email srmconsult@va.gov or visit www.mirecc.va.gov/visn19/consult.
Kaesean Joseph is an Air Force Veteran and VA employee.
I agree, and regarding my posting of suggestions, based on both my own life and relations with others, I make the suggestions more in the way of basic human relations, rather than last-minute therapy to avert an immediate disaster. If faced with the latter, my first thought would be to turn to a professional, and only if that were impossible, try my best. I did have one experience of the latter, here in Israel, and I think I was successful, if indeed the problem was really that serious.
And regarding the deviant's tragedy, this was a young man talented in his profession in the USA, loved by those working with him, and an individual with great talent to contribute to society. And he may have been chastized, for all I know, my some religious fanatical clergyman who still retains medieval theology.
And I have to admit there are Jewish religious fanatics who forbid immunization injections and/or floride toothpast! Rabbi Marc Angel, Emeritus at New York's Shearith Israel, who was and is one of my important teachers, as written a great deal on this problem within the Orthodox Jewish community.
I know you don't like hearing this from a professional but it's a wee bit more complicated than what you posted. Also Dive bar Dave posted a lot of valuable information that you might not like either.
divebardaveWhich explains why states such as Miss,Alabama and Florida have high rates of crime atributed to mental health.
A syndicated child psychologist columnist in our local paper is quite certain that the "spare the rod, spoil the child" generation is also a large part of the problem. I see no reason to disagree with that. It's also been said that the current generation is the most depressed ever, in no small part due to social media.
A fire chief speaking at a seminar I attended last year said that he is now getting recruits who have never heard the word "no." When I related that to a high school teacher I know, he said that in addition to learning student's names at the beginning of the year, you also have to figure out who hasn't heard the same word.
This all adds up to a generation that cannot handle life when things go sour.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
All this being said...Hug your neighboor,Give up your seat to a lady.Smile once in a while and buy your barmate a beer and just be a nice guy and stop being a mule-hole to keep the rest of us going for a while.
divebardave Budget Cuts Change Care The 1980s marked a period in which sweeping budget cuts led to a decline in services for the mentally ill. President Ronald Reagan helped institute a variety of cuts to social programs that affected a number of groups throughout the country. His administration supervised cuts throughout the decade that hampered support for the poor and mentally ill, among other groups. Prior to Reagan’s presidency, President Jimmy Carter helped establish the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980, which restructured federal community health center programs by increasing and strengthening links between local, state and federal governments, according to a history of mental health in the United States by the Minnesota Psychiatric Society. The act mandated the Community Mental Health Centers to increase a number of grant programs for the mentally ill, such as services for the severely mentally ill, the severely emotionally disturbed and increasing education and consulting needs. At the time he signed the act, Carter said the act was “the most important piece of federal mental health legislation” since President John F. Kennedy's Community Mental Health and Mental Retardation Facilities Act in 1963. It was designed to reestablish many of the community programs from the Kennedy years and President Lyndon B. Johnson’s Great Society that had been cut or diminished during the Nixon presidency. However, Reagan repealed the act soon after taking office in 1981, because the federal support of Community Mental Health Centers ran counter to his goals to reduce spending and social programs, according to Alexandar R. Thomas, a sociology professor at Northeastern. In its stead, Reagan enacted the Alcohol, Drug Abuse and Mental Health Block Grant, which decreased funding by 30 percent in 1982, leading to major service reductions. Under this system, the federal government simply redistributed money to the states, but in smaller amounts, which increased the burden placed upon local and state governments, according to a 1994 journal article by Gerald Grob of Rutgers University. By 1985 the federal funds provided to the ADMS Block Grant covered only 11 percent of agency budgets, while states’ responsibility grew to 42 percent. --Compiled by Matt Birchenough; photo courtesy the Ronald Reagan Library
The 1980s marked a period in which sweeping budget cuts led to a decline in services for the mentally ill. President Ronald Reagan helped institute a variety of cuts to social programs that affected a number of groups throughout the country. His administration supervised cuts throughout the decade that hampered support for the poor and mentally ill, among other groups. Prior to Reagan’s presidency, President Jimmy Carter helped establish the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980, which restructured federal community health center programs by increasing and strengthening links between local, state and federal governments, according to a history of mental health in the United States by the Minnesota Psychiatric Society. The act mandated the Community Mental Health Centers to increase a number of grant programs for the mentally ill, such as services for the severely mentally ill, the severely emotionally disturbed and increasing education and consulting needs. At the time he signed the act, Carter said the act was “the most important piece of federal mental health legislation” since President John F. Kennedy's Community Mental Health and Mental Retardation Facilities Act in 1963. It was designed to reestablish many of the community programs from the Kennedy years and President Lyndon B. Johnson’s Great Society that had been cut or diminished during the Nixon presidency. However, Reagan repealed the act soon after taking office in 1981, because the federal support of Community Mental Health Centers ran counter to his goals to reduce spending and social programs, according to Alexandar R. Thomas, a sociology professor at Northeastern. In its stead, Reagan enacted the Alcohol, Drug Abuse and Mental Health Block Grant, which decreased funding by 30 percent in 1982, leading to major service reductions. Under this system, the federal government simply redistributed money to the states, but in smaller amounts, which increased the burden placed upon local and state governments, according to a 1994 journal article by Gerald Grob of Rutgers University. By 1985 the federal funds provided to the ADMS Block Grant covered only 11 percent of agency budgets, while states’ responsibility grew to 42 percent. --Compiled by Matt Birchenough; photo courtesy the Ronald Reagan Library
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Over the last 3000 years we have made great strides in the healing of the body but are still just coming out of the dark ages when comes to healing the brain. Even in Saint Lukes time there were whole libraries to healing battlefield injuries and sickness and the Roman/Greek Armies had phisiscians on there payroll,...with the start of the decline of the Roman Empire and the rise in power of the Catholic Church and the dark fuedal system that replaced the Pax Romana things started going downhill. Many of the Eastern European Imagrants that came out of the Ottamon Feudal Empire to the Rust Belt in the early 20th century brought these old idea with them which included that mental illeness was caused by ones own sins and sins of there fathers and demons brought these traditions with them. This resulted in the Stigmatation and outcasting and isolation of family members who sufferred from mental disablities. If one were to try and get out by means of suicide ones punishment for this unforgivable sin continued after death with santions such as not mentioning this family members name again,non buriel in a Cathlolic/Jewish Cematary and placing of ones children in a orhapange thus enshering the cycle be carried out for generations.--
The belief in the modern church in "demonic possesion" is still a real thing and has resulted in the needless delay of treatment for mental illness.Rev Ryan Anderson who is the pastor of Good Shepard Missouri lutheran Lutheran Church told me when I asked was Jesus healing mental illness when he "cast out demons" and his answer was yes that there are demons out there. The modern Catholic Church still holds on and also teaches courses on exorcism despite Vatican 2 and the new pope-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHDjVPKi0QU, Exocism is also a tradition in deep Jewish Culture as well...The recent history of mental hospitals for the last 150 years is not much better. "Mental Health law" was based on the presumption that people who have Mental Disablites are not fit to walk the streets with the rest of us normal souls. So hundreds of thousands of people were put in trains and sent up to massive facilties like Wingdale NY or Bellevue. Inside such faclities there endured cold water torture,electroshock thearapy and having parts of there brains removed.( the most commonly used treatments for mental illness were electroconvulsive therapy, insulin coma therapy and lobotomies)In the Westfield Mass area I have followed old railroad beds to find massive abandoned contratration camps for the mentaly disabled/delopmently disabled/mental ill. In my travels I have seen dozens of these places..https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freud-fluoxetine/201807/the-american-mental-asylum-remnant-history ..I have even stayed in a few that were converted to Veterans homes...As far as today is concerned the SSRIs basicly are a chemical lobotimy that over time use heavy metals such as lithium to short circuit the brain and kill all emotions or feeling over time. The Phislosophy is socialital control. see- https://www.amazon.com/Your-Drug-May-Problem-Psychiatric-ebook/dp/B009SAV6SI The old feel good drugs of the 1970s like valuium are only prescribed to rich cliants while the poor are put on the SSRI which kill the mind and body over time.
In response to the most recent previous posts, I can understand avoidance of religious topics that can lead to controversy and ill-will. But prevention of suicide is part of all Abrahamic religions, all types of Judaism, Christianity, and true Islam (not the Mufti-distorted version of Islam that promotes suicide bombers). And real faith can help one ask the Eternal for help instead of performing the act. From my own brushes with being close to doing it, may I respectfully suggest:
Don't try to argue someone out of his or her faith. If your faith is different or you are an Athiest, accept that people are different and can still work together to make a better world.
If you see anyone who seems "under a cloud," perpetually sad, try to find out in a non-prying way what the problem is. Be a good listener, and don't come up with a response on the spur of the moment. Think about it, and you may come up wiih a solution. Examples:
Just because A dislikes you, don't forget that all the rest of us think well of you and want to be your friends.
You've obviously been given a very difficult task to do, and too short a time to do it. So simply explain what the problems are and why you need more time. Or ask for others to assist you.
Just because you were the very best in highschool doesn't mean you have to be the very best in college. Just relax a bit, do your best, and as long as you get passing grades, be happy.
There is one case I know of where a person did have faith and his interpretation led him to suicide, because he was also a sexual devient. I would have had the sense to point out King David's directly expressed love for Jonathan in the (Jewish and Christian) Bible, and that there are many many ways of expressing love physically without directly vioiating religious comandments.
I've survived to 88 (in a few weeks), and just possibly one of these suggestions may help at least one person also survive.
And you may think of others.
I agree that we have gotten a little off the rails here...however as the OP here I ask that we concitrate on how we can prevent suicide by train and what if anything the railroad companies are doing for there drivers and the families involved.
"More than 300 times last year, people walked onto railroad tracks to intentionally put themselves in the path of a train — and in 266 cases they successfully committed suicide.August 6, 2018 at 11:01 p.m. CDT From Washington Post 266 people took there life by train.
That data, recorded by the Federal Railroad Administration, is based on the conclusions of state or local police who investigated each case. The number of what’s known as “suicides by rail” is the lowest in seven years, and preliminary data from the first four months of 2018 suggest the annual figure may end up being far lower than last year."
https://nypost.com/2013/06/02/suicide-is-leading-cause-of-subway-passenger-deaths-mta-data/
- No inherently divisive discussions or signature messages. Hot-button topics like guns, abortion, religion, immigration, and crime aren't welcome, for the same reasons as political discussions and signatures. We all have our own views, and this isn’t the place to share them. Remember, this is a railroading forum.
divebardave The stigma of suicide can be laid at the feet of the Catholic Church and the Fuedal system that it arose from, Could not have a Catholic Funeral,Could not be buired in a Catholic Cemetary,Could not collect the full amount of Life Insurance (often provided by fraturnal insuarnce like Knights of Columbus or Holy Name Society), Name was whispered in hush tones- In english common law one life belongs to the state or the king and taking ones own life could have civil consequnces in terms of Inhertance and property.--- The legal theory is that it is the king and the state that is harmed by the loss of there chattel (you)and that is why the state prosecutes crimes such as murderand is under no obligation to order compisation to the victim. English Common Law was carried over by the American Colonies and then the independent United States as the legal system of what they knew..
The stigma of suicide can be laid at the feet of the Catholic Church and the Fuedal system that it arose from, Could not have a Catholic Funeral,Could not be buired in a Catholic Cemetary,Could not collect the full amount of Life Insurance (often provided by fraturnal insuarnce like Knights of Columbus or Holy Name Society), Name was whispered in hush tones- In english common law one life belongs to the state or the king and taking ones own life could have civil consequnces in terms of Inhertance and property.--- The legal theory is that it is the king and the state that is harmed by the loss of there chattel (you)and that is why the state prosecutes crimes such as murderand is under no obligation to order compisation to the victim. English Common Law was carried over by the American Colonies and then the independent United States as the legal system of what they knew..
Johnny
"The Atlantic" which is about as mainline journalism as you can get says-
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/david-foster-wallace-was-no-coward/604501/
divebardave If in fact our bodies/lives are our own then one should have the right to ends one life without outside interferance. I mean the "pro-choice" crowd has been saying this since Roe Vs Wade. The "Pro-Life Crowd" has been saying that our life belongs to God or "Higher Power" and the collective community as a whole and that our bodies/lives are communal property of the state...I propose as a Liberatarian that if one wants to end there own life then they should have the right to do so by filing the appropiate papers with a court of proper jurisdiction proving sound state of mind and then by medical means...Its better then the messy ways of forcing a train drivers hand and the EMS Bio-haz mat team to clean up the mess.
If in fact our bodies/lives are our own then one should have the right to ends one life without outside interferance. I mean the "pro-choice" crowd has been saying this since Roe Vs Wade. The "Pro-Life Crowd" has been saying that our life belongs to God or "Higher Power" and the collective community as a whole and that our bodies/lives are communal property of the state...I propose as a Liberatarian that if one wants to end there own life then they should have the right to do so by filing the appropiate papers with a court of proper jurisdiction proving sound state of mind and then by medical means...Its better then the messy ways of forcing a train drivers hand and the EMS Bio-haz mat team to clean up the mess.
+1
Agreed. I'm not a Libertarian but what you propose is sensible. That said, many suicide attempts don't have the lead time or knowledge to file papers with a court. Nor is suicide (doctor-assisted or otherwise) legal in many states. Oregon is a good option for those contemplating an exit.
I will simply offer this as a professional with experience in managing suicidal patients.
1. It is a very complex issue, with no simplistic answers and difficult to predict with accuracy, so err on the side of taking someone's statements seriously.
2. Copy cats attempts do occur, especially with the young.
3. Discussing suicide with someone you suspect is considering it is not "putting the idea in their head" or driving them to action. It is what hotline folks and therapists generally do. It often comes as a relief to the person because now they feel free to talk about their thoughts with someone who appears to empathsize.
4. As non-professionals, keep in mind the three critical conditions, given in order of increasing dangerousness:
a. Ideation
b. Means
c. Plan.
tree68I would opine that all our discussion does (on the negative side) is give someone who is already in distress one more possibility to consider.
If you are dealing with someone who is mentally imbalanced to begin with, it is a fools errand to predict what their response might be. Perhaps just an unintentional joke such as "the later years are the most unpleasant" might be interepreted as encouragement.
The only point I was trying to make earlier is that perhaps this might be a good place to consider our needs for self indulgence weighed against the potential consequences for the forum host?
Of course I am sure there will be some here who are convinced THEY are doing the right thing right up until Kalmbach pulls the plug, and then they will argue there was no valid reason to pull it. That is just the nature of some I guess.
Flintlock76Granted, there's always more "Views" on these topics than there are active participants, but I doubt any of them are likely to be influenced as well.
I would opine that all our discussion does (on the negative side) is give someone who is already in distress one more possibility to consider.
Unfortunately, copycats are real. A nearby school was offering immunizations some years ago. One girl's bad emotional reaction quickly turned into a half dozen...
It's already been stated that awareness of this problem has come a long way.
One might hope that if someone is found walking on the tracks that such a possibility comes to mind. You can often tell by someone's demeanor that they may need some attention. The drunk walking home on the tracks is still in danger of being killed, but odds are it won't be intentional.
If someone truly wants to end it all, they will find the tools to do so. We can only hope to identify their issues and help them resolve them by other means before they can act on it.
Is this a smart discussion to be having? Well, let's remember it all started because of a tragic suicide by train.
As far as I know all the posters here are mature, well-grounded men and very unlikely to be influenced to take their own lives by anything they've read here. Granted, there's always more "Views" on these topics than there are active participants, but I doubt any of them are likely to be influenced as well. At least I hope so.
And if, if, it hightens awareness of the problem with those who've looked in then in my opinon it's done a positive good.
Considering the quality of the posts on this topic I believe Kalmbach should be proud of the caliber of their readers, even if they find the subject matter awkward.
In that vein, possibly suicide by train might make a thought-provoking article in "Trains" magazine? A truly grim subject and certainly outside their usual subject matter, but an important one, since "SBT" seems to be a growing, although not an epidemic, problem in the larger urban and suburban areas of the country.
No, I'm not volunteering to write it, I'm not qualified, not by a long shot.
Interesting point I would like you guys to ponder.
For most of this century,Major League Baseball had a cluster of forums, where each team had it's own...they were very heavily used
A couple years ago on the California Angels message board, a thread on suicide came about.
One of their teenage posters committed suicide, and had that thread bookmarked on their computer. During the attempts to discover what might have provoked the act, somebody started sifting through the teens computer, and found that bookmark.
I don't know all the details, but evidently there was enough "cause and effect" found that the parents ended up suing the Angels, and Major League Baseball,
And the Angels message board disappeared without announcement...never to return. And, about a year later, all the rest of the boards followed suit.
All I was able to gather was that it was decided that the cost of having to defend from such litigation was greater than the value of the forums. So they all went *poof*.
As good as it might feel for all of us to pour out our heart felt opinions on this sensitive subject, is it really a "smart" topic to be discussing? I really can't imagine Kalmbach being too thrilled having this discussion on their boards, so I'm out.
daveklepper Going back to the thread's subject, with a question: Have any of you been in a position in life where a lot was expected of you, perhaps in several areas, not just one, and you simply felt terribly inadequate to fullfill even of a large fraction of all that life seemed to demand from you?
Going back to the thread's subject, with a question:
Have any of you been in a position in life where a lot was expected of you, perhaps in several areas, not just one, and you simply felt terribly inadequate to fullfill even of a large fraction of all that life seemed to demand from you?
Yes, but I always felt like suicide would be giving the rest of the world a break that it didn't deserve.
divebardave I prefer suicide on the Installment plan- One drink,One cigar and One blood pressure pill at a time,One day at a time...and occasionaly breath in some Coal/Diesal smoke from a 1950s era steam/Alco on a scenic railroad when I get a rare chance.
I prefer suicide on the Installment plan- One drink,One cigar and One blood pressure pill at a time,One day at a time...and occasionaly breath in some Coal/Diesal smoke from a 1950s era steam/Alco on a scenic railroad when I get a rare chance.
Some more badly needed humor here!
Someone told me once (after they saw me "light up") that "You know, smoking takes ten years off your life!"
"So what?" I said, "They're the worst ten years of your life anyway!"
You are using someone elses hand when you commit suicide by train/cop/freeway. I try to stay clear of freinds who want to commit suicide because they dont care about there own life and have no problem with taking someone close down with them.--- .
Yes, Wayne, at one time I had a manager who at times approached the pointy-haired class. He had had no experience in our sort of work, and he was also unaware that we who were under him were rather well acquainted with our resposibilities.
I also had an instructor in fork lift operation who took issue with my heading down a ramp without a load once--and I politely told him (from previous instruction) that you travel on an incline with the heavy end up--and he accepted my knowledge.
OvermodInterestingly enough, I have seen repeated studies that indicate that actually-qualified people have much more anxiety and perceived question about their performance than people actually 'in over their heads' in a complex situation.
Possibly summed up as "you don't know what you don't know."
Thanks for injecting a little humor in this grim subject Johnny!
And the reason "Dilbert" is so funny is because it's so true!
Suicidology is very complex. College counseling centers have used various approaches over the years, ranging from techniques to help students with academic pressures to depth therapy. Prediction is very imprecise and counseling resources are very limited. Stigmatization by the general population is an added burden.
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