243129 Murphy Siding How is this not considered sniping? Because it is not. If this person is naive enough to believe that an engineer who just ran over and killed a trespasser volunteered to retrieve body parts from his consist to aid the ME in his investigation and mitigate further delay to his train then he is naive enough to buy a bridge on Brooklyn. No sniping, an accurate assessment.
Murphy Siding How is this not considered sniping?
Because it is not. If this person is naive enough to believe that an engineer who just ran over and killed a trespasser volunteered to retrieve body parts from his consist to aid the ME in his investigation and mitigate further delay to his train then he is naive enough to buy a bridge on Brooklyn. No sniping, an accurate assessment.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Flintlock76 "Don't run. You'll only die tired!"
"Don't run. You'll only die tired!"
I'm going to start yelling that at joggers!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I stop joggers in the street and ask them why they are jogging... the universal answer is that they are jogging for their health.
I tell them that their mother was a failure!
If you are jogging in the street you run the risk of being hit by a car, and that ain't healty. You are also breathing heavily, sucking in great quantities of automobile exhaust and that ain't healthy either.
Thus you are not doing it to be healthy... you are just playing and you are doing it in the street, ergo, your mother was a failure for failing to teach you, not to play in the street!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Some High Schools bring the remains of a car driven by a drunk driver to show the results of the drivers poor decision. In highlighting the dumb behavior they hope to save others.
Since most teenagers are not railfans and not here, if they read about this in a viral 'Darwin' list maybe it may make one or two think first.
rdamonSome High Schools bring the remains of a car driven by a drunk driver to show the results of the drivers poor decision. In highlighting the dumb behavior they hope to save others.
I've been involved in a number of those drills. The faces on some of the kids show that the point is made.
They usually do them every other year, as the Juniors and Seniors both attend.
One school cancelled two such drills in a row as the result of students dying in traffic collisions earlier in those years. Neither was related to the prom, or drinking, but school officials figured it would be emotional overload.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Murphy Siding I guess one man's sniping is another man's accurate assessment.
I guess one man's opinion is another man's accurate assessment.
Semper Vaporo I stop joggers in the street and ask them why they are jogging... the universal answer is that they are jogging for their health. I tell them that their mother was a failure! If you are jogging in the street you run the risk of being hit by a car, and that ain't healty. You are also breathing heavily, sucking in great quantities of automobile exhaust and that ain't healthy either. Thus you are not doing it to be healthy... you are just playing and you are doing it in the street, ergo, your mother was a failure for failing to teach you, not to play in the street!
Are you joking? How is your message received?
charlie hebdo The issue is that it is in very bad taste to give the victim the approbation of Darwin candidate/winner just because doing so salves one's guilt or ego. If any of you think it's fine, try telling that to the victim's family.
The issue is that it is in very bad taste to give the victim the approbation of Darwin candidate/winner just because doing so salves one's guilt or ego. If any of you think it's fine, try telling that to the victim's family.
Yes, I think the bad taste is the issue, but then why has it been associated with trainmen wrestling corpses out from under their train after an accident? I would guess that it is to offer an excuse for the crass Darwin Award attitude by showing the grim task that trainmen have to routinely deal with and why they must cope by using vengeful gallows humor of the Darwin Award. You would not understand it unless you do it every day like they have to.
I certainly would not consider that to be part of my job, and I would be surprised if any railroad company would disagree. Not only would it be traumatic for me, but it would also pose a serious liability risk to my employer. It would also pose serious risk to my continued employment if I performed this controversial task without authorization from my employer. Why take that risk?
I can see Semper's point, and especially the humor, but here's the thing...
The streets just aren't safe, more so in this day and age of more and more distracted driving. If people want to run for exercise, which is very commendable, do it in a county park, or the track of a local middle or high school, (if it's after school hours they won't mind), or if you can't at a park or a school at least run on the sidewalk if one's available. I've lost track of how many joggers I've seen running on the road and ignoring the fact there's a perfectly good sidewalk to use. Makes no sense.
Or, join a gym and run on a treadmill. That's what I used to do until the knees started to go.
One last thing. Running on hard surfaces like concrete or asphalt may have adverse long-term effects on joints and tendons, irregardless of how good your footwear is. Soft surfaces like tracks and trails are better.
I have never ever heard of a crew member going underneath a train to retrieve body parts. I should think that would be akin to tampering with evidence at a crime scene.
As far as the Darwin comment, it was totally out of line. He was a kid and as with all kids they are occasionally afflicted with the SFB syndrome. Sadly it cost him his life and to denigrate him on social media is inexcusable.
Running or biking on streets can be very dangerous because of distracted drivers and even their deliberately dangerous maneuvers. But his approach is unlikely to achieve anything other than venting, same as the gallows humor by people associated with railroads. Euclid is very accurate in his assessment. I would add that any interference with evidence and remains at an accident scene is illegal.
243129I have never ever heard of a crew member going underneath a train to retrieve body parts. I should think that would be akin to tampering with evidence at a crime scene.
It's not tampering if the appropriate authorities are supervising.
You're going to love this website: https://darwinawards.com/
And this one: https://www.bestmastersprograms.org/10-most-educated-darwin-award-winners/
That last one starts out: "The Darwin Awards is a time-honored way to laugh at people who stupidly risk life and limb in the dumbest ways possible."
There was even a movie made about it. The concept isn't limited to railroaders who have to deal with the results of such actions.
243129 zardoz Yeah, they wouldn't do it. " they wouldn't do it" ???? That is their job! I find it hard to believe that emergency personnel on the scene allowed or stood by while you crawled under your train to retrieve body parts for the coroner so he could have a "complete body". Really?
zardoz Yeah, they wouldn't do it.
" they wouldn't do it" ???? That is their job!
I find it hard to believe that emergency personnel on the scene allowed or stood by while you crawled under your train to retrieve body parts for the coroner so he could have a "complete body". Really?
I suppose if I hadn't offered to go under, perhaps one of the officials would have; but we wanted to get moving, and answering Commuter Control's constant requests for updates got to be a pain, so yeah, under the supervision of the Coroner I went under to get the parts. Before this incident happened, the only crashes I had experienced were of striking vehicles, and weren't too gory. However, when I volunteered, I did not have any idea of how traumatic seeing the cut-up body (which I was the last to see intact), would be. One second he was just walking in front of us, the next second, thump, and he was history.
And to the self-righteous of you who ask whether I would call the deceased a Darwin candidate to his family, you are asking such a dumb question that I am not sure how to respond without sounding as critical and uncomprehending as those questioners do.
Fourty-plus years later, I am still sometimes haunted by the memories of that and similar incidents. Who is more of a 'victim' in these cases? Some idiot who's problems ended via my train, or myself (and the other train crewmen who have had fatal incidents)? We were just doing our jobs when these incidents happened. Where is your concern for us innocent victims that have suffered over the years? You seem more worried about some presumed sensitivities of the idiot's relatives.
When an Engineer becomes aware that an "accident" is about to occur, such as seeing a car stuck on a crossing, all the Engineer can do is dump the air, lay on the horn, and sit back and watch as the incident unfolds before him. He may have as much as five seconds to wait for the impact, and it is quite possible that the Engineer will see the face of the soon-to-be-deceased; if it isn't a suicide, then the look on the almost-deceased person's face just before impact is enough to cause the Engineer many nights of sleep difficulties.
Perhaps all you know-it-alls might want to try and focus your sympathies where they will do some good; either that, or keep your piehole shut.
zardozPerhaps all you know-it-alls might want to try and focus your sympathies where they will do some good; either that, or keep your piehole shut.
Having counseled two patients who suffered a very similar trauma to yours, as well as many more war vets, I can empathasize fully. I would also suggest that you still retain a lot of unresolved anger which you choose to aim at the dead. It's worse than too bad the CNW or Metra did not offer you serious counseling for your PTSD.
243129 I have never ever heard of a crew member going underneath a train to retrieve body parts. I should think that would be akin to tampering with evidence at a crime scene.
Because the police have never, ever, ever tampered with evidence, planted evidence, or just been too lazy to proper job of investigating and collecting evidence?
tree68That last one starts out: "The Darwin Awards is a time-honored way to laugh at people who stupidly risk life and limb in the dumbest ways possible." There was even a movie made about it. The concept isn't limited to railroaders who have to deal with the results of such actions.
Sadistic and juvenile.
SD70DudeBecause the police have never, ever, ever tampered with evidence, planted evidence, or just been too lazy to proper job of investigating and collecting evidence?
If a scene released, then it's released. I've seen the aftermath where they had to call the fire department to hose down the tracks after someone ran in front of a 100mph train. Don't think the firefighters were "tampering" with anything.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
charlie hebdo zardoz Perhaps all you know-it-alls might want to try and focus your sympathies where they will do some good; either that, or keep your piehole shut. Having counseled two patients who suffered a very similar trauma to yours, as well as many more war vets, I can empathasize fully. I would also suggest that you still retain a lot of unresolved anger which you choose to aim at the dead. It's worse than too bad the CNW or Metra did not offer you serious counseling for your PTSD.
zardoz Perhaps all you know-it-alls might want to try and focus your sympathies where they will do some good; either that, or keep your piehole shut.
Welcome to the railroad world.
Some of us will recall the 1991 fatality at the Fairview Avenue (Downers Grove) METRA station that was captured on film by a railfan. The investigators made the Engineer back the train up and re-enact the accident, with the body still lying beside the track.
This article is a good summary of what train crews go through:
https://www.pantagraph.com/news/train-engineers-traumatized-by-fatal-collisions/article_7d365660-88dc-11de-9d63-001cc4c03286.html
Things have improved since Zardoz's time, today we are automatically off work after a fatal incident and counselling is offered. But not everyone takes advantage of it, and there is still that pressure to get back on the (iron) horse as soon as possible.
charlie hebdo tree68 That last one starts out: "The Darwin Awards is a time-honored way to laugh at people who stupidly risk life and limb in the dumbest ways possible." There was even a movie made about it. The concept isn't limited to railroaders who have to deal with the results of such actions. Sadistic and juvenile.
tree68 That last one starts out: "The Darwin Awards is a time-honored way to laugh at people who stupidly risk life and limb in the dumbest ways possible." There was even a movie made about it. The concept isn't limited to railroaders who have to deal with the results of such actions.
You just discribed all of humanity, no matter the color of their skin or the continent on which the reside.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD charlie hebdo tree68 That last one starts out: "The Darwin Awards is a time-honored way to laugh at people who stupidly risk life and limb in the dumbest ways possible." There was even a movie made about it. The concept isn't limited to railroaders who have to deal with the results of such actions. Sadistic and juvenile. You just discribed all of humanity, no matter the color of their skin or the continent on which the reside.
Nonsense, except in your little world, perhaps. Your way of taking unfounded information, over-generalizing it to the entire world and then blasting it out sounds a lot like the current occupant. Yes, a segment of the population does engage in Schadenfreude and gallows humor, but usually in the moment and in context.
zardozNot from Chicago, are you?
No, what difference does that make?
zardozI suppose if I hadn't offered to go under, perhaps one of the officials would have; but we wanted to get moving, and answering Commuter Control's constant requests for updates got to be a pain, so yeah, under the supervision of the Coroner I went under to get the parts
So you are telling me that you killed a trespasser in the city of Chicago, which has emergency equipment and personnel one would expect for a city of that size, and they allowed you to go under your train and retrieve body parts for the coroner/ME because you wanted to get moving???? What body parts did you retrieve for the ME? Arms, legs, skull, torso?
zardozOne second he was just walking in front of us, the next second, thump, and he was history.
I thought he was sitting between the rails?
zardozAnd to the self-righteous of you who ask whether I would call the deceased a Darwin candidate to his family, you are asking such a dumb question that I am not sure how to respond without sounding as critical and uncomprehending as those questioners do.
You did respond, this from page 1:
"So yeah, screw them morons, they deserve their Darwin title."
zardozFourty-plus years later, I am still sometimes haunted by the memories of that and similar incidents. Who is more of a 'victim' in these cases? Some idiot who's problems ended via my train, or myself (and the other train crewmen who have had fatal incidents)? We were just doing our jobs when these incidents happened. Where is your concern for us innocent victims that have suffered over the years? You seem more worried about some presumed sensitivities of the idiot's relatives.
Stop with the drama and self pity. You didn't take the train off of the tracks to hit him did you? He was trespassing and is responsible for his own death. You did all you could do and then it was out of your hands. Get over it!
Easy, boys.
Personally, I have always thought the Darwin schtick is tacky. It's not funny. It's tasteless.
OTOH, I find it a bit rich when a guy refuses to believe a man's story, and at the same time wants everyone to be sensitive to the family of the main character of the tale.
I'll probably get ripped for trying to inject some moderation here, but, really, this horse is dead.
It's an important subject. But the p!$$!ng contest is unsightly.
I agree. Enough.
"Nonsense, except in your little world, perhaps. Your way of taking unfounded information, over-generalizing it to the entire world and then blasting it out sounds a lot like the current occupant."
We go from a sad story of an Oregon teenager killed by a train ... to, "the current occupant".
Amazing.
York1 John
York1 Amazing.
Tremendously SAD!!!!!
Lithonia OperatorOTOH, I find it a bit rich when a guy refuses to believe a man's story, and at the same time wants everyone to be sensitive to the family of the main character of the tale.
I find zardoz 'story' hard to believe and why not show some decency to the family of the deceased?
243129 Lithonia Operator OTOH, I find it a bit rich when a guy refuses to believe a man's story, and at the same time wants everyone to be sensitive to the family of the main character of the tale. I find zardoz 'story' hard to believe and why not show some decency to the family of the deceased?
Lithonia Operator OTOH, I find it a bit rich when a guy refuses to believe a man's story, and at the same time wants everyone to be sensitive to the family of the main character of the tale.
I believe Zardoz's story but it is certainly at variance with normal practice, an outlier. So it is understandable that Joe has doubts. In any case, the Darwin sadism should cease. Zardoz is alive. The kid is dead, his parents were robbed of life's joy. Even though it likely was his fault, that does not justify this sadistic dancing on his grave.
charlie hebdoI believe Zardoz's story but it is certainly at variance with normal practice, an outlier. So it is understandable that Joe has doubts. In any case, the Darwin sadism should cease. Zardoz is alive. The kid is dead, his parents were robbed of life's joy. Even though it likely was his fault, that does not justify this sadistic dancing on his grave.
+1
It is interesting that we go through this every time someone pulls a common human stupidity around trains and dies because of it.
In the distant past, no one brought up the family or friends of the deceased. But over the years there have been more and more people complain about the "Darwin Awards" that people bestow on the dead, in deferance to the feelings of the friends and family.
I suspect that someday in the distant future the term "Darwin Award" will not be mentioned at all.
Not unlike how entertainment has changed over the years such that physical handicaps are no longer mocked or used as the means to humor the way they used to be.
I am wondering when outlier mental aberations will not be seen to be as humorous or entertaining as they are today (Monk, Big Bang, etc.)
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