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Used Rail

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Used Rail
Posted by JPS1 on Monday, October 21, 2019 10:10 AM

Periodically I see BNSF, UP, etc. replacing main line rail.  What happens to the old rail?

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, October 21, 2019 10:23 AM

I would assume that what is still "good" is used in yards or other low use tracks. 

Saw a program that showed them reforming it into fence and sign posts.

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Monday, October 21, 2019 12:06 PM

JPS1

It depends on the quality of the rail, the amount of wear, what alternative the owner has for it, if there is a short line nearby that can buy it, the state of the used rail market, the state of the scrap market.

Yes, it is common practice to cascade used rail down to less demanding service like a branch line or yard trackage IFF there is a need, and the closer the better since it costs money to pick up and transport.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, October 21, 2019 1:25 PM

I'm pretty sure the 1920's vintage rail on the Adirondack Division is relay - ie, cascaded used rail - maybe even from the vaunted Water Level Route itself.

While doing some trainwatching one day some time back (I think there was some sort of special coming through) I noted that stick rail had been welded together to make CWR.  Complete with the bolt holes.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, October 21, 2019 1:51 PM

I'm pretty sure I saw the same program about making old rail into fence posts.  They were doing this somewhere in Chicago's southern suburbs (I don't know if the business is still there).  It involved heating the rail, not to the point of melting, but to the point where it could be easily cut and shaped into the fence posts.  I don't recall how many posts they could get out of a length of 39-foot rail.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, October 21, 2019 1:59 PM

Then there was the old Conrail Lucknow Railmill.  They took old stick rail and made welded rail with it.

http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/?q=node/6936

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, October 21, 2019 5:40 PM

If the rail is from a curve, it's usually pretty well worn out when it's replaced.  Likewise, tangent rail, though that tends to be top wear or fatigue-type defects rather than side wear, and so may have some low-grade use left in it. 

What I'm wondering is with the Class 1's closing yards and selling off branch lines, where would any replaced rail be cascaded down to?  At some point the remaining yards and branches will all have good used rail, and the short lines will have all the CWR they need.  Then what? 

- PDN. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 22, 2019 6:48 AM

CShaveRR

I'm pretty sure I saw the same program about making old rail into fence posts.  They were doing this somewhere in Chicago's southern suburbs (I don't know if the business is still there).  It involved heating the rail, not to the point of melting, but to the point where it could be easily cut and shaped into the fence posts.  I don't recall how many posts they could get out of a length of 39-foot rail.

 
I don't know about fence posts, but I have seen several grade crossings on industrial leads in which the crossbucks are mounted on old rails used as posts.
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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, October 22, 2019 9:35 AM

PDN: Already running into the problem of not having sufficient OTM, espectially tie plates and usable anchors with some life still left. In the yards, the conversion to longer tracks still goes on. 

Also standards for cropping rail to become servicable SH-CWR kills off lots of rail because its too worn, surface bent, etc.

Most angle bars are made from old railcar axles acting as billets. Using T-rail as crossing posts, sign posts in the old days was cost effective(witness DRGW), today not so much. (The idea of keeping crossbucks intact is appealing* , but the cost difference of scrap rail vs. treated posts or t-posts is huge with steel at $900+/ton.)

(*) The agri-dummies exact a huge toll every spring planting and fall harvest with illegal width moves between locations/ fields because they won't spend the time to totally break down equipment. Crossbucks and approach signs are forever getting mangled.

Shortlines cannot afford the upgrades.

 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, October 22, 2019 10:50 AM

mudchicken
Most angle bars are made from old railcar axles acting as billets. Using T-rail as crossing posts, sign posts in the old days was cost effective(witness DRGW), today not so much. (The idea of keeping crossbucks intact is appealing* , but the cost difference of scrap rail vs. treated posts or t-posts is huge with steel at $900+/ton.)

What about the breakaway standards for sign posts?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 22, 2019 10:56 AM

mudchicken
The agri-dummies exact a huge toll every spring planting and fall harvest with illegal width moves between locations/ fields because they won't spend the time to totally break down equipment. Crossbucks and approach signs are forever getting mangled ... Shortlines cannot afford the upgrades.

Interesting that distributed cameras for 'crossing enforcement' (solar-charged with cell-phone modem for connection) would neatly catch these culprits (whether or not the camera is damaged or 'disappears' in the process...)  Then impose very, very large fines.  Watch the problem reduce ... one way or t'other.

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, October 22, 2019 11:51 AM

zugmann

 

 
mudchicken
Most angle bars are made from old railcar axles acting as billets. Using T-rail as crossing posts, sign posts in the old days was cost effective(witness DRGW), today not so much. (The idea of keeping crossbucks intact is appealing* , but the cost difference of scrap rail vs. treated posts or t-posts is huge with steel at $900+/ton.)

 

What about the breakaway standards for sign posts?

 

Rarely applied in rural areas on rural roads ... and then there are those prairie winds.

Western Kansas Wind Gauge - Rolla, Kansas

(Thinking of a certain county road crossing just west of Walsh Colorado (Now CVR) that seemed to have its crossbucks hammered about every 6 weeks...Huh?

6" x 6" borate treated posts look like kindling after John Deere's rig attacks the crossbuck.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, October 22, 2019 7:44 PM

Paul, fenceposts from this concern didn't look like rail at all--the rail was cut, sliced, rolled, stamped, whatever into fenceposts that actually looked like fenceposts.  The rails weren't heated hot enough to melt, but the actions mentioned above could easily be done.

My most recent report to my fellow freight-car freaks was sent out last night.  Its 32 pages soundly eclipsed the previous record.  I took the day off today to get irradiated (dose two out of three).  Tomorrow we answer phones at the studios of WFMT, and I might use a route near some tracks to get back home.

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, October 22, 2019 8:21 PM

Tried to search for that show ..  could not find it

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Posted by bing&kathy on Tuesday, October 29, 2019 8:11 PM

Years ago in my hometown there was a loading ramp made from old rail. The rail was installed over the steel frame with the railhead down. The ramp was about 20 ft. wide and almost a city block long. It stood about 8 ft above the ground as it was used for loading pulp wood into gondolas. A huge amount of rail, it was removed (scrapped) when log loaders were installed on logging trucks. It was a sight to see and ride bicycles up and over.

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Posted by D NICHOLS on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:50 AM

Many years ago, the rails from the FEC track to Key West were made into the guardrails for the US-1 bridges. If you go down there today you will see what salt air does to rail after over 80 years of exposure.

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Posted by Johniacono on Monday, November 4, 2019 11:12 AM

I  Used to have lunch everyday with a gentleman that was a principle owner in a steel mill that purshaced used RR rails.  The rails were reprocessed at a mill in Pennsylvania into different items for sale .  Some of the items are, harvard bed frames, elevator guide rails, bar stock used in building construction, etc.  He had an entire catalogue of steel shapes and parts.  The business was very successful.  I do not know if the business is still in existance today because I retired 14 years ago and have not had lunch with the boys since then. 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, November 4, 2019 2:32 PM

Several of us were doing some "railroad archeology" one day and wandered into a culvert under the tracks.  The walls were stone (possibly built 1892 along with the rest of the railroad), but the roof was rails, set side by side.  

This is a large culvert - I can stand up inside it easily.

Apparently it was a common practice.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, November 4, 2019 3:18 PM

I've seen a few places where stick rail has been pounded into the ground vertically by a pile driver, to act as a sort of retaining wall in an attempt to prevent or slow down landslides.

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, November 4, 2019 4:49 PM

A small chunk of used rail is a great small anvil for home use when you just gotta pound on something and don't want to damage your front steps or concrete porch.

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by Dr Leonard on Monday, November 4, 2019 5:41 PM

Another use of used rail sections is to make service awards for rail-related organizations, like the one I received last March as a director of the Keokuk Union Depot Foundation.

https://www.forecyte.com/images/rail_award_rcl.jpg

 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, November 4, 2019 7:20 PM

A less-known use for rails was as reference points for curves.  MC would have to provide details, but I know of several spots on the Adirondack where this was done.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by SALfan on Monday, November 4, 2019 10:13 PM

I probably purchased many, many of those bedrails for my employer at the time, over 20 years ago.  One of the employer's factories made beds for use in prisons. The re-rolled rail bedframes were required because the steel was substantially harder than "normal" steel, thus making them more difficult for the thugs to cut and shape into shanks (homemade knives).

EDIT: Sorry, I intended to include johniacono's post about the steel mill that purchased used rail to re-roll into various shapes. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:59 AM

Semper Vaporo

A small chunk of used rail is a great small anvil for home use when you just gotta pound on something and don't want to damage your front steps or concrete porch.

 
Dad used to have a similar anvil by his workbench.  It was about a 3-inch length of rail mounted on a large wood block that looked like a tie end.  I remember how heavy it was.
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:32 PM

Have seen rails used for cattle guards bottomes and sloping sides on roads leading into open ranges and other pastures.

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, November 5, 2019 7:05 PM

tree68

A less-known use for rails was as reference points for curves.  MC would have to provide details, but I know of several spots on the Adirondack where this was done.

 

Generally used as property boundary markers (T-rails) and to mark and offset the beginning and end of the spirals, compound curve points and or center of the curve (DRGW used T-rails for all of the above)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by ClassA on Thursday, November 7, 2019 10:28 AM
One of my past careers was blacksmithing and one way to use a rail for an anvil is to stand it on end and use the end of the rail head as the working face. While small in overall size, most metal worked on a "smaller" anvil doesn't require more space. What makes this way of using it nice is that it puts most of the rail mass directly below the hammer blows. It makes for a very nice anvil. When laid in a normal horizontal fashion, you get slight deflection of the web and only the mass directly below the hammer strike really helps move the metal.
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Posted by half car on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 8:53 AM

JPS1

Periodically I see BNSF, UP, etc. replacing main line rail.  What happens to the old rail?

 

There are times that rail appears to being replaced with all the men and equipment around but what they are doing is turning the rail.  On jointed rail it is simply unbolted and picked up and turned end for end and put back in place.  This allows the other side of the head to be used.  On welded rail, say a track running east to west the south rail is moved to the north side and north rail moved to the south side to use the other side of the head.  This is called transposing.  I have seen rail where my thumb is wider than the head of one side of the rail.  Once it is turned it can last for a few more years before replacement.

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 10:35 PM

Curve rail transposition. High to Low/Low to High ... and most do not turn it around. (and then you have to be carefull about gage)

DC will back this up - On our railroad (Santa Fe) on timber bridges, t-rails were used to reinforce and stiffen main track bridges (under the deck on ballast deck bridges or under the ties on open deck bridges) , about 24 rails to a span (replacing the stringers)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 11:17 PM

half car
 
JPS1

Periodically I see BNSF, UP, etc. replacing main line rail.  What happens to the old rail? 

There are times that rail appears to being replaced with all the men and equipment around but what they are doing is turning the rail.  On jointed rail it is simply unbolted and picked up and turned end for end and put back in place.  This allows the other side of the head to be used.  On welded rail, say a track running east to west the south rail is moved to the north side and north rail moved to the south side to use the other side of the head.  This is called transposing.  I have seen rail where my thumb is wider than the head of one side of the rail.  Once it is turned it can last for a few more years before replacement.

Never heard of rail being turned end of end.  Not saying it hasn't been done - I just haven't heard of it.

CSX operates a number of 'Curve Patch' rail gangs.  These gangs in many situations will transpose the low rail to the high rail (or vice versa) an install new rail in the 'vacant' position.  The rail removed from the track will normally be heavily head worn on both sides of the head - as wear happens on one side of the head on the rail's initial installed location and then when transposed to the other side, it will get additional wear on what is now a 'new' head face in the rails new position.

Curves are the high wear locations for rail.

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