Convicted One Well, I've always pictured such an arrangement as the visiting engineer at the controls, while the pilot mentors over his shoulder......but just looking at all the static about reduced crew size and expense control makes me wonder if the RR is willing to pay two engineers for the same miles? I'll bet those host road engineers are thrilled by a little "throttle time" when groups like 765 take their act on the road, but that really is a special situation and falls a little outside the scope of my interest.
Well, I've always pictured such an arrangement as the visiting engineer at the controls, while the pilot mentors over his shoulder......but just looking at all the static about reduced crew size and expense control makes me wonder if the RR is willing to pay two engineers for the same miles?
I'll bet those host road engineers are thrilled by a little "throttle time" when groups like 765 take their act on the road, but that really is a special situation and falls a little outside the scope of my interest.
The visiting railroad will be footing the bill for the whole cost of crews involved. The visiting railroad of course pays for it's own crew. They will also pay for the pilot crew/engineer. The host railroad is going to charge, and I'm sure it's more than just what the engineer/crew is normally paid. The visiting railroad really has no choice. If it wants it's train to detour and doesn't have an engineer qualified on the move, it has to pay the price.
When we've had planned detours over other railroads in the past-CN, IAIS, CPRS(DM&E)-we usually have our own people pilot our trains. What they would do is set up a pilot pool who become qualifed and familiar with the foriegn territory. They would then pilot our crews over that territory. One time on the CN, once a regular engineer had two trips, they would not even call a pilot for them. These types of detours are usually for planned work events like heavy trackwork or closures due to flooding.
When Amtrak has detoured over us, the train is usually handled by our crew, a engineer and conductor. The Amtrak conductor is back on the train. The Amtrak engineer can ride on the engine or back on the cars. I've had a few, but only once did the Amtrak engineer ride the engine with us.
On some long detour moves, over multiple crew districts, the visiting railroad might not even have a crew. They just turn the train over to the host at Point A and receive it at Point B. The host using their own crew to move it. It depends on the length of the move and the volume. Does the host have enough engineers or crews to pilot or operate detour moves of another railroad? There's been times when railroad A can only take so many detours a day from railroad B. There just aren't enough people available.
Jeff
tree68There is another time when a train may need a pilot:
And this after I worked so hard to resist the temptation to mention Jean Bertin!
A little 'less unseriously', we might remember the pilot's-license quip in one of the 'alleged T1 high speed run' stories. And the intentional and proud use of (open-cockpit style) pilot's goggles by a 'Locomotivfuehrer' of the German 05s and other streamlined classes in the Thirties...
About a year ago, I was called to go dog catch an ethanol train off my normal West Pool assignment. Our calls are usually made by the 'robot' which gives a few details, one being where you start and end. Since I was starting and ending in my home terminal, I knew it was a dog catch. I also knew the extra board was exhausted, which was why I was being called. I took the call, knowing they needed someone familiar with the west end.
Upon arriving at the yard office and looking at the train summary, I realized they were going to want me to go out west to Grand Jct IA, pick up the train and take it though to Des Moines, east and south of my home terminal. I hadn't worked those lines in a few years and was no longer familiar with them. (The difference between being qualified and familiar with a territory are technicalities, but something that is pertinent in our neck of the woods.) I immediately called the dispatcher. He asked why I took the call. I told him, with the limited info, I assumed I would go out west and bring the train in for another crew. The extra board can run through and are familiar with the routes involved. Going west was no problem, going east-and then south-I needed a pilot. He asked if I could at least go over to Nevada and get a different train. No, I'm no longer familiar with that part of the territory. If something happens, it's on me. The dispatcher said to call the corridor manager. I did and left a message. About this time the conductor, who I also had told about this problem, comes back and said, "They've found you a pilot." They took the last extra board engineer who had been called to take a double stack train to Clinton IA off that and made him my pilot. They recalled the next available East Pool engineer to take that train. That East Pool guy happened to be my union local chairman. I had already called him, if nothing else to tell him if I was doing this, I was being forced to do so. He understood and said they can do that. He also said one trip did not make me familiar with a territory. If they did this again, I would still need to call for a pilot.
To help us, Me the Pilot engineer and conductor, the dispatcher decided to bring the train in from Grand Jct to our home terminal. There were North/South pool crews available. What they normally do, and should've done, is brought the train in and recalled it with the proper pool crew. They were trying to save money. So off we went to Des Moines. We were stopped for quite a while north of there to get in. Once in and changed out, we had to wait for a van to take us back home. No van had been called. I was on duty about 13 hours, 5 of which were overtime, that day.
While I was off assignment, my turn left town when a rested extra board engineer became available. This happens often, and when it does we can claim the wages the turn makes in our absence. It's called a 'make whole' and they pay what the turn made minus what you made working off assignment. Since I made all that overtime and my turn had deadheaded out, they only had to make whole a lot less than they normally do.
A week later, I get called for an auto rack train. The origin and destination is again my home terminal, with a 'continuation to Clinton'. I have no idea what that means. We have an option that puts us through to an actual human caller. I told her I was a West Pool engineer and couldn't go to Clinton without a pilot. She says she'll take me off the job. A few minutes later, she calls back and says they just want me to dog catch this train, a long pool train, out west and bring it in to my home terminal where they'll put an East Pool crew on it. I say I can do that.
I get to the yard office amid a computer outage, which also takes out the company phone system. We couldn't get paperwork or information on the train. Everything is down for about 3 hours. When it's back up, by that time the train had arrived in my home terminal. They didn't call an outbound East Pool crew and I was again saying I needed a pilot if they actually were going to make me take it. This time they didn't. They called an East Pool crew. I tied up with a 'call and release', was paid for the hours on duty and went back to my position on my board for 10 hours rest.
Jeff, does the robot caller need an upgrade so it will not call an unqualified engineer or conductor to take a certain train?
Johnny
Glad to know I'm not the only person to call the automated caller "the robot".
In conversation with our crew callers I have learned that CN's has a bad habit of placing crews on duty in the computer system without actually phoning them. Maybe it has been fixed now, but the crew callers were having to watch it like hawks.
We normally only get told our on-duty and off-duty locations when we are called. On a turn they are supposed to tell you the turnaround point at the time of call, but usually don't. That part doesn't matter as much, and will often have changed by the time you go on duty anyway.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70Dude Glad to know I'm not the only person to call the automated caller "the robot". In conversation with our crew callers I have learned that CN's has a bad habit of placing crews on duty in the computer system without actually phoning them. Maybe it has been fixed now, but the crew callers were having to watch it like hawks. We normally only get told our on-duty and off-duty locations when we are called. On a turn they are supposed to tell you the turnaround point at the time of call, but usually don't. That part doesn't matter as much, and will often have changed by the time you go on duty anyway.
When it was new, the robot had a bad habit of putting someone on duty and not actually calling (phone) them. I've called the AVR (the robot) to get put on duty after seeing that the robot hadn't called me after seeing the train prompted on the website.
Our information is Job/Train ID, On Duty time, origin and destination station numbers, and potential conductor/foreman. It doesn't say anything about trainees (engine or train) or brakeman/switchmen. If you're the trainee, it says the conductor for trainmen trainees, the engineer for engineer trainees.
Other than on duty time, all is subject to change. Once in a while you get changed from a less desirable train to a better one. Usually it's the other way around.
Deggesty Jeff, does the robot caller need an upgrade so it will not call an unqualified engineer or conductor to take a certain train?
Part of the problem is the callers not watching what the robot is doing. When the extra board is exhausted, there are procedures that should be followed. Some, because of territory, need specificly qualified/familiar crewmembers. Others, like filling in a yard engine vacancy are more flexible. If no extra board, they are supposed to offer it to the senior rested pool engineer. He can reject it, so they go to the next senior engineer and so on. Sometimes they just let the robot handle it. Our pools are numbered re33 (west) re34 (east) re35 (north/south) respectively. The robot on it's own, seems to go to the 33 pool first. Then they try to force you to the job if you answer. I don't care to work the yard engine. If I'm not first out (or first available) I don't answer the phone when I expect it to be a caller/robot looking for someone to work off assignment.
Even our #4960 steam trips had a pilot when they strayed from Q tracks. For Mexico, MO we had Wabash pilot on the head end. They also filled the tender with water pumpers from local FD. Later she started bringing along her own water tender.
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