I have recently finished two good railroad books, one a memoir and one that’s fiction. I just took a chance on them after discovering them on Amazon. I think most of you would enjoy both.
The memoir is Life and Times of a Locomotive Engineer, by Charles Steffes. Steffes hired out on the SP in 1937, and retired in 1976. He is a good storyteller, and had an interesting career and life. The railroad tales are more from the steam than diesel era, but both are well-covered. The book covers every aspect of railroading life. And the parts about his personal life are also quite engaging. You root for Charlie. You relate to his issues on the job and off. Sure, some tales in both realms seem to be a bit embellished; but maybe not. For example, I had trouble believing he talked to management types the way he related it in some instances. I thoroughly enjoyed this book and heartily recommend it. An editor, an English teacher, or even a stickler railfan can find some things that are not correct. But this book is a darn good read.
We go from apples to oranges now, as the second book, The Engineer, is a novel. The author is Barton Glascock. If he was not a railroad engineer, then he really, really did his research. Since I’m no engineer, I cannot evaluate things for absolute authenticity, but his descriptions of running a train seem very real, very detailed. If any of you engineers read it, I’d be interested in your takes in this regard. Like the Steffes book, it’s also a story about a man’s life. In this case, our engineer has serious personal issues. I should mention that he also has a serious sex life; four or five pages (out of 280) can only be described as pornography. And there are some events on the railroad side that seem pretty far-fetched; but that is common in popular fiction. Here again, I can’t believe our engineer, Danny, could have spoken to his superiors the way he (in first-person) tells it. Also, I don’t think that crews would ever use radios to talk to each other like they do in this book (I think the FCC would come down on them if the railroad did not ... and it would). I would be interested in knowing whether train crews out of radio range of management would ever call each other cock$uckers, etc., on the airwaves; I doubt it. And as a radio user on my boat, I think some of the radio calling protocol is incorrect in some instances (the first thing you say is who you are calling, not who you are). But quibbles aside, this is also a very good read. And despite a few small issues, it is quite well-written; where Steffes sounds like a good railroader/storyteller, Gladcock seems more like a professional writer. I‘d recommend this book also. There is one chapter on the history of his fictional railroad. It’s really self-standing, not necessary to the book’s plot at all. I skimmed that chapter; it seemed realistic enough, but as with actual RR history, once I’ve read enough about land grants, construction bonds, surveys and business shenanigans, my eyes glaze over.
With both books, I got hooked very quickly, and read them through in a few days. I found both absorbing and entertaining.
The human components add a lot of depth, but don’t get me wrong: these are first and foremost railroad stories. Good ones, in my opinion.
Still in training.
Most of the time things don't get too out of hand on the radio. However, sometimes the microphone button sticks and you might hear things not meant for broadcast.
As far as radio protocol, probably not as strict when compared to military, police/fire, aviation or navigation users. But then, we are on our own channels. We do use "over" and "out", well most of the time. So much that sometimes when in the yard office talking on the phone to the dispatcher I'll say "over".
Jeff
jeffhergert Most of the time things don't get too out of hand on the radio. However, sometimes the microphone button sticks and you might hear things not meant for broadcast. As far as radio protocol, probably not as strict when compared to military, police/fire, aviation or navigation users. But then, we are on our own channels. We do use "over" and "out", well most of the time. So much that sometimes when in the yard office talking on the phone to the dispatcher I'll say "over". Jeff
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy SidingI've taught my guys to say "thank you" on the radio so both parties know the conversation is over...roger....huh?
That's "out" at the end of a transmission. Cool idea though. I've seen it done in a diner, where the cooks call out the wait staff's name when they have an order up, and the waiter/waitress replies with "thank you" in acknowledgement.
We had one crew member who's trademark acknowledgement was a drawn out "rajjjjjj". Every now and then you'll hear someone mimic it.
The FRA prefers proper radio etiquette. Calling "Hey, Dave, this is Fred, push 'em over about ten cars," isn't going to fly, if they're listening. And they do.
We usually only have one crew working within radio range, and pretty much everything is currently our equipment, so dropping the RR ("1234" vs "ABCX 1234") isn't a problem.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I read the "Life and Times..." book. It was a piece of crap! I think I sold it or threw it in the trash. Either way it is not on my shelf!
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Murphy SidingI've taught my guys to say "thank you" on the radio so both parties know the conversation is over...
I did not know you'd been associated with New York Theatre!
It's surprising how quickly you understand the value of 'over' and 'over and out' when you're confined to half-duplex. Most people have never had to experience this and think it's just a courtesy convention.
I had a different issue when programming voice response systems -- if anyone is familiar with Larry Niven (Prikazyvat Voice) and Bob Heinlein (Gay, I tell you three times) you may appreciate the problem of Accessing The Computer when in a room full of normal conversation... some of which may involve vocal instructions on how to Access The Computer without actual disastrous compliance ensuing. What is needed is a clear, ambiguous, preferably monosyllabic word, not found in normal discourse, which ideally should mean something like 'sit up and take notice'. Helpfully in that day and age, I had spent a certain amount of time in the Park Slope area, and was familiar with Sylvester Stallone movies -- anyone here ever ordered pizza in Brooklyn? That's the word.
Meanwhile ... what word does the computer use to indicate the message was received? This similarly has to be unambiguous, not found in normal discourse, and ideally mean 'received and recognized (if not yet necessarily understood or comprehended), and here too popular culture provided the answer -- 'yeah'. Juliana Hatfield's 'yeah'.
It only took 25 years for the art of speech recognition to advance to the point 'yo' could be properly recognized, but it's been a long time since then with little meaningful "HMI" improvement. (I blame it on kids these days...)
Big Jim, what's your opinion of 'Set Up Running?'
What actual recommendations on 'engineer' literature do you have for him to read? From you would be particularly good advice.
I am still hoping that Jack Neiss can be induced to finish his collection of stories (see here for a taste).
There is no “over and out.” Hollywood often gets this wrong. That is a contradiction in terms. As Jeff referred to above, there is “over” and there is “out.”
”Over” means I am done for now; and I am expecting an answer from you, or I am at least kicking it back to you.
”Out” means I am finished, and hereby conclude my part of the conversation.
BigJim I read the "Life and Times..." book. It was a piece of crap! I think I sold it or threw it in the trash. Either way it is not on my shelf!
Overmod Big Jim, what's your opinion of 'Set Up Running?' What actual recommendations on 'engineer' literature do you have for him to read? From you would be particularly good advice.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Lithonia OperatorThere is no “over and out.”
I guess it differs by context. I used 'over and out' for the same reasons I taught my crews to pick up the phone a beat after the second ring: it's easier for harried people on the other end to comprehend. "Over" means 'received and acknowledged', then "out" means 'I'm gone', off the air. Those are two separate understandings and require two separate acknowledgements. (At least, so said me.)
Overmod Murphy Siding I've taught my guys to say "thank you" on the radio so both parties know the conversation is over... I did not know you'd been associated with New York Theatre!
Murphy Siding I've taught my guys to say "thank you" on the radio so both parties know the conversation is over...
Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “you're welcome”.
Murphy SidingYep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “you're welcome”.
See, they think it's politeness and courtesy. But we know better.
I read “Set up Running” a couple months ago and enjoyed it. Having grown up in central PA and being familiar with many of the towns and areas covered in the book certainly contributed to my enjoyment.
I reckon the one nagging thought I had throughout the book was the author’s apparent photographic memory of conversations and events that occurred two or three decades before he actually wrote the book. I have to believe there was either some embellishment or the author consulted other sources to fill in some memory blank spots.
Murphy Siding Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “your welcome”.
Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “your welcome”.
You‘d prefer the now common millennial response of “no problem”?
[quote user="Juniata Man"
I reckon the one nagging thought I had throughout the book was the author’s apparent photographic memory of conversations and events that occurred two or three decades before he actually wrote the book. I have to believe there was either some embellishment or the author consulted other sources to fill in some memory blank spots.[/quote]
I had same exact thoughts about Life and Times. Maybe some would consider that fair literary license. Dialogue (real or ”similar”) adds a lot to any book involving human interaction.
Juniata Man Murphy Siding Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “your welcome”. You‘d prefer the now common millennial response of “no problem”?
Lithonia OperatorWhen a waiter brings my meal, and I say “thank you,“ and the kid says “no problem,” I feel like saying: “I was being polite. I was not concerned about your mental health or possible inconvenience.”
Think of it as the contemporary equivalent of nadsat talk: in Spanish, our fast-evolving second language, the phrase 'de nada' is the polite response to any situation with 'thank you'. This millennial trope is just a poor English translation of that use.
Lithonia Operator Juniata Man Murphy Siding Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “your welcome”. You‘d prefer the now common millennial response of “no problem”? When a waiter brings my meal, and I say “thank you,“ and the kid says “no problem,” I feel like saying: “I was being polite. I was not concerned about your mental health or possible inconvenience.”
LOL!
Overmod Lithonia Operator There is no “over and out.” I guess it differs by context. I used 'over and out' for the same reasons I taught my crews to pick up the phone a beat after the second ring: it's easier for harried people on the other end to comprehend. "Over" means 'received and acknowledged', then "out" means 'I'm gone', off the air. Those are two separate understandings and require two separate acknowledgements. (At least, so said me.)
Lithonia Operator There is no “over and out.”
My first half of military service was in the tank corps. Radio communications is one of the principles of that branch of the service. We had a three month course in 'voice procedure', and there was a PO check at the end of it.
"Over" means "I have completed my message and you may now respond." [I'll shut up and listen until you reply to me.] The idea is that both of you are still going to exchange information. Hence, 'over', and not 'out.'
"Out' means, and it's almost always the initiator of the conversation in the first place who terminates the discussion (unless there's palpable tension and rancor brewing, and the recipient of the first communication elects to terminate the conversation him/herself), "I am yielding the airwaves to someone else who'd either like to contribute something or who wishes to use them to initiate their own conversation." Once the initiator says 'out', he is done. Anyone else listening who wishes to add something must initiate all over again with 'Two One, this is Two Two, we didn't leave that item where you found it....over." (Over meaning 'whaddaya say?')
'Out' is terminal, in which case 'over' is redundant. They are never said together except in movies.
tree68 Murphy Siding I've taught my guys to say "thank you" on the radio so both parties know the conversation is over...roger....huh? That's "out" at the end of a transmission. Cool idea though. I've seen it done in a diner, where the cooks call out the wait staff's name when they have an order up, and the waiter/waitress replies with "thank you" in acknowledgement. We had one crew member who's trademark acknowledgement was a drawn out "rajjjjjj". Every now and then you'll hear someone mimic it. The FRA prefers proper radio etiquette. Calling "Hey, Dave, this is Fred, push 'em over about ten cars," isn't going to fly, if they're listening. And they do. We usually only have one crew working within radio range, and pretty much everything is currently our equipment, so dropping the RR ("1234" vs "ABCX 1234") isn't a problem.
Murphy Siding I've taught my guys to say "thank you" on the radio so both parties know the conversation is over...roger....huh?
The FRA has to have the railroad's permission to listen in. (Which I'm sure they have.) I found that out from a communications guy who was volunteering at the B&SV and helping them get an actual railroad radio channel. They had been using a public band and decided it was time to get their own. The FCC however, can listen in all they want.
Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around. It's probably one of the most overlooked rules. It's one of those they can use if they can't find something else.
jeffhergertThe FRA has to have the railroad's permission to listen in.
I suspect that means that in order for them to do anything actionable, they have to have the railroad's permission.
Anyone can listen to any radio transmission at any time. They just can't use what they hear for personal gain, ie, a wrecker operator responding to a wreck based on hearing the police dispatch for same.
There are, of course, agencies that use encryption, and there is one trunking technology in use that has not been shared with the scanner manufacturers, so it is basically unscannable.
jeffhergertThe FCC however, can listen in all they want.
And they do, sometimes with ominous consequences. I remember that the first spring I worked at WPRB, we had a soecial science-fiction-reading show once a week. This went swimmingly until along came the Harlan Ellison story 'A Boy and his Dog' -- the station management thought the readers had screened their copy, and apparently didn't comprehend that this wasn't a speculative-fiction Lassie story. I still remember the green look of dread on the then station manager's face as this progressed over the airwaves for a few minutes ... then the waiting for a call or letter of complaint. Things are not as stringent now, but I believe the consequences no less dire.
Consider the necessary procedures dictated by the FCC for communication over the citizen's bands. I know of NO ONE who used that rigmarole even experimentally when they set up a CB rig ... but at any point, the Government could easily have cracked down really hard on the convoys just by triangulating and then prosecuting users not using "proper procedure" all the time they were on the air ... much as was done to 'file sharers' to destroy Napster not all that much later.
jeffhergert Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around.
Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around.
Im confused, Jeff. What do you mean by this?
In the novel, it’s not just that they use profanity. They are BSing, busting each others’ chops, etc. I hanve not scanned a lot, but when I have, and when I worked on the GARR, it was all business. “Three car lengths,“ “That’ll do,” etc. pretty dry stuff only.
A required part of initiating a radio communication on the railroad is that the railroad must be identified in the radio communication...
"CSX Defect Detector milepost CFP 66.6 - No Defects""CSX engine 3434 North on number 3 track - Clear at Widewater""CSX engine 4545 South at MP YYG 21.2 - EMERGENCY EMERGENCY EMERGENCY""CSX BD Dispatcher calling Q415-19, over"
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Oh. Got it. Thanks, Balt.
Lithonia Operator jeffhergert Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around. Im confused, Jeff. What do you mean by this? In the novel, it’s not just that they use profanity. They are BSing, busting each others’ chops, etc. I hanve not scanned a lot, but when I have, and when I worked on the GARR, it was all business. “Three car lengths,“ “That’ll do,” etc. pretty dry stuff only.
In a busy location with multiple yard jobs and/or trains working, how do I know the radio commands are for me? There's multiple ways, but one common way is to use the engine number. Also common is just saying "1234 bring 'em ahead 10 cars." While there is only one UP 1234, there could be foriegn line or lease units with the same number working in the area. Rarely will that happen, but it could. That's why the railroad initials are supposed to be used with the number.
We also use a train's or a job's symbol. MPRCB for a manifest or Job 51 for a yard job. Often MPRCB may get shortened to PRCB, or even PR or CB depending on where you're at. Council Bluffs, the CB part often will call it PR. Although you have to be careful, they also call a MCBPR just PR. Sometimes both can be in the yard. And that's why not saying the entire symbol plus date can be dangerous. You might have two symbols, from two different dates, in the same yard. It has happened, but not often.
One time in my home terminal, I was on MSSNP working the west end of the yard. While on the other end MNPSS was working. Both of us on the same channel. We both started out using the symbol, but after a few minutes we both changed to the engine numbers, and probably didn't say "UP" in front of them.
jeffhergert Lithonia Operator jeffhergert Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around. Im confused, Jeff. What do you mean by this? In the novel, it’s not just that they use profanity. They are BSing, busting each others’ chops, etc. I hanve not scanned a lot, but when I have, and when I worked on the GARR, it was all business. “Three car lengths,“ “That’ll do,” etc. pretty dry stuff only. In a busy location with multiple yard jobs and/or trains working, how do I know the radio commands are for me? There's multiple ways, but one common way is to use the engine number. Also common is just saying "1234 bring 'em ahead 10 cars." While there is only one UP 1234, there could be foriegn line or lease units with the same number working in the area. Rarely will that happen, but it could. That's why the railroad initials are supposed to be used with the number. We also use a train's or a job's symbol. MPRCB for a manifest or Job 51 for a yard job. Often MPRCB may get shortened to PRCB, or even PR or CB depending on where you're at. Council Bluffs, the CB part often will call it PR. Although you have to be careful, they also call a MCBPR just PR. Sometimes both can be in the yard. And that's why not saying the entire symbol plus date can be dangerous. You might have two symbols, from two different dates, in the same yard. It has happened, but not often. One time in my home terminal, I was on MSSNP working the west end of the yard. While on the other end MNPSS was working. Both of us on the same channel. We both started out using the symbol, but after a few minutes we both changed to the engine numbers, and probably didn't say "UP" in front of them. Jeff
Thanks, Jeff.
Im curious: in MPRCB, what is the PR? Provo?
OvermodBig Jim, what's your opinion of 'Set Up Running?'
The only other recommendations that I would offer up are certain articles that have appeared in magazines over the years. A few I have saved, but for the most part, they are too numerous (and perhaps forgotten) to mention. Leave it to say they beat the heck out of "Life and Times..."!!!
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