Lithonia OperatorSo at least one guy’s joking about it on the radio. But then the whole crew, not even knowing it was their train, gets this relief, and paid time off. I definitely believe in the idea behind the relief, but this smells fishy.
The conundrum of management - do you approach the situation as a hardass or from the side of compassion.
Railroaders will ALWAYS 'game' whatever system a company operates under.
I had a 'practical joker' that worked under my supervision. I came into work one morning and found a Injury Report on my desk from him. The injury was jamming a paper clip under a fingernail. Knowing the individual I initially assume the report was his attempt at a 'joke'. When I got the bill from the ER it was proved not to be a joke.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
So at least one guy’s joking about it on the radio. But then the whole crew, not even knowing it was their train, gets this relief, and paid time off. I definitely believe in the idea behind the relief, but this smells fishy.
Lithonia OperatorBalt, I don’t get your next-to-last sentence. Could you explain?
Critical Incident Relief happens when a crew is involved in a fatal accident. I believe it gets the crew requesting it, 'immediate' relief from the job responsibilities and a Recrew gets called to perform the balance of the run the original crew was on. The CIR crew also gets 3 or 4 days off with pay. The CIR crew also gets some level of emotional counciling to help them deal with the incident.
In the specific incident, the 1st MARC crew 'surmised' that they were the crew that had caused the death of the body - without knowing from their own visual knowledge that they had been involved.
Beyond the initial reporting of the incident - the further details of the incident are not normally made public.
Balt, I don’t get your next-to-last sentence. Could you explain?
zugmann Lithonia Operator And none of the sex parts are explicit or pornographic. Well, what's the point of reading it then? (crosses it off the reading list). As far as embellishing stuff, I wouldn't be surprised. Many people (incl. RRers) tend to have over-active memories about events. 99% of stuff out here is boring, and all but nobody would want to read about it.
Lithonia Operator And none of the sex parts are explicit or pornographic.
Well, what's the point of reading it then?
(crosses it off the reading list).
As far as embellishing stuff, I wouldn't be surprised. Many people (incl. RRers) tend to have over-active memories about events. 99% of stuff out here is boring, and all but nobody would want to read about it.
A number of years ago, the 2nd MARC train out of Riverside Shops discovered a headless body adjacent to the tracks between Riverside and Camden Station. The first MARC train of the day had just departed Camden inroute to Washington. Someone, unknown as to who, started singing acapela, 'Losing My Head Over You' on the road radio channel. The 1st MARC train stopped at Halethorpe and called a 'Critical Incident Relief'. Just another day on the railroad radio.
They take cursing very seriously over the airwaves, Dad was acting silly on Frisco radio to the yard crews and said a curse word, but he thought the radio was off. The Yardmaster showed up and wanted to know who used the profanity and Dad admitted it was him, thinking it was not on. He was told to be careful in the future, and never did that again. So I doubt if anyone could curse when trains were running either, unless it was many years ago before FCC or a very loosely run RR.
zugmann99% of stuff out here is boring, and all
And tedious. Like a pilots but that 1% can really get the adrenaline flowing?
zugmann Lithonia Operator: And none of the sex parts are explicit or pornographic. (crosses it off the reading list).
Lithonia Operator: And none of the sex parts are explicit or pornographic.
tree68 It didn't have to be sex, it could have been paranormal activity, or geneology, or any number of other things (although more people are likely to be offended by the sex angle). If you start reading a book about what is touted to be the subject (and said subject is what you are interested in) and the book shifts to a different focus, I think many people would simply lay the book down and forget about it.
It didn't have to be sex, it could have been paranormal activity, or geneology, or any number of other things (although more people are likely to be offended by the sex angle).
If you start reading a book about what is touted to be the subject (and said subject is what you are interested in) and the book shifts to a different focus, I think many people would simply lay the book down and forget about it.
I hear what you’re saying, tree.
This book is called Life and Times, etc., and that, combined with the blurb on the back, let me know it wasn’t going to be only about railroading. It did have more non-railroad content than I expected, but that was okay with me. I find people interesting. It was also about relationships, a business venture, building a house, friendships, etc.
But the book is overwhelmingly about railroading.
Do I think I’d find this guy a blowhard if I met him? Maybe. I dunno. But I found the bulk of his book to be very interesting and engaging. I never looked at it primarily as a way to learn about railroading, although I did learn some things. What I was after was an entertaining tale set in a railroad environment.
I enjoyed it. But if you are looking for the ABCs of railroading, this ain’t it. Nor is the novel I described.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
To “BigJim:”
Well, I said I thought he imbellished some things, and he probably did. And yes, he is “proud of himself.” Humility is not his long suit.
I was surprised that he got into his sex life, I admit. At first I thought it was completely gratuitous, and somewhat adolescent. But as I got further into the book and realized that there is a great deal of non-railroad content, that it is also about a man’s life in general, then I accepted it more, because sex is a part of life. And he talks about a lot of other aspects of life, also. In about (I’m guessing, since I do not have the book right here) 275 pages, maybe 20 relate to sex. And none of the sex parts are explicit or pornographic.
I kind of rolled my eyes at some of it, but to me that still left plenty of book to enjoy. A guy writing a few pages about sex didn’t freak me out, or cause me to not find enjoyment in the bulk of the book.
I certainly do not think that my enjoying the book means I have a “problem.”
Maybe you have a problem.
I still think that a lot of railfans and railroaders might enjoy the book. Maybe some will take a chance, and decide for themselves. I personally found the book much more engaging and real than the Eddie Sand stories.
Not sure why anyone would get riled up about this.
Lithonia Operator Im curious: in MPRCB, what is the PR? Provo?
Im curious: in MPRCB, what is the PR? Provo?
Proviso. Where Carl used to govern on high. At least on the hump.
Jeff
In the navy on the ships public address system called for some reason the 1MC, one time only in the five years I was on that ship, a guy announced "Now hear this..." We all looked at each other when that happened with a Whisky Tango Foxtrot look on our faces. He obviously was a newbie and was given some instructions and never did it again. He watched a few war movies, I guess.
Lithonia OperatorWould you care to share what you disliked about the book? “Piece of crap” does not impart much information to those who might be considering reading it.
.
OvermodBig Jim, what's your opinion of 'Set Up Running?'
The only other recommendations that I would offer up are certain articles that have appeared in magazines over the years. A few I have saved, but for the most part, they are too numerous (and perhaps forgotten) to mention. Leave it to say they beat the heck out of "Life and Times..."!!!
jeffhergert Lithonia Operator jeffhergert Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around. Im confused, Jeff. What do you mean by this? In the novel, it’s not just that they use profanity. They are BSing, busting each others’ chops, etc. I hanve not scanned a lot, but when I have, and when I worked on the GARR, it was all business. “Three car lengths,“ “That’ll do,” etc. pretty dry stuff only. In a busy location with multiple yard jobs and/or trains working, how do I know the radio commands are for me? There's multiple ways, but one common way is to use the engine number. Also common is just saying "1234 bring 'em ahead 10 cars." While there is only one UP 1234, there could be foriegn line or lease units with the same number working in the area. Rarely will that happen, but it could. That's why the railroad initials are supposed to be used with the number. We also use a train's or a job's symbol. MPRCB for a manifest or Job 51 for a yard job. Often MPRCB may get shortened to PRCB, or even PR or CB depending on where you're at. Council Bluffs, the CB part often will call it PR. Although you have to be careful, they also call a MCBPR just PR. Sometimes both can be in the yard. And that's why not saying the entire symbol plus date can be dangerous. You might have two symbols, from two different dates, in the same yard. It has happened, but not often. One time in my home terminal, I was on MSSNP working the west end of the yard. While on the other end MNPSS was working. Both of us on the same channel. We both started out using the symbol, but after a few minutes we both changed to the engine numbers, and probably didn't say "UP" in front of them. Jeff
Lithonia Operator jeffhergert Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around. Im confused, Jeff. What do you mean by this? In the novel, it’s not just that they use profanity. They are BSing, busting each others’ chops, etc. I hanve not scanned a lot, but when I have, and when I worked on the GARR, it was all business. “Three car lengths,“ “That’ll do,” etc. pretty dry stuff only.
jeffhergert Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around.
Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around.
Im confused, Jeff. What do you mean by this?
In the novel, it’s not just that they use profanity. They are BSing, busting each others’ chops, etc. I hanve not scanned a lot, but when I have, and when I worked on the GARR, it was all business. “Three car lengths,“ “That’ll do,” etc. pretty dry stuff only.
In a busy location with multiple yard jobs and/or trains working, how do I know the radio commands are for me? There's multiple ways, but one common way is to use the engine number. Also common is just saying "1234 bring 'em ahead 10 cars." While there is only one UP 1234, there could be foriegn line or lease units with the same number working in the area. Rarely will that happen, but it could. That's why the railroad initials are supposed to be used with the number.
We also use a train's or a job's symbol. MPRCB for a manifest or Job 51 for a yard job. Often MPRCB may get shortened to PRCB, or even PR or CB depending on where you're at. Council Bluffs, the CB part often will call it PR. Although you have to be careful, they also call a MCBPR just PR. Sometimes both can be in the yard. And that's why not saying the entire symbol plus date can be dangerous. You might have two symbols, from two different dates, in the same yard. It has happened, but not often.
One time in my home terminal, I was on MSSNP working the west end of the yard. While on the other end MNPSS was working. Both of us on the same channel. We both started out using the symbol, but after a few minutes we both changed to the engine numbers, and probably didn't say "UP" in front of them.
Thanks, Jeff.
Oh. Got it. Thanks, Balt.
A required part of initiating a radio communication on the railroad is that the railroad must be identified in the radio communication...
"CSX Defect Detector milepost CFP 66.6 - No Defects""CSX engine 3434 North on number 3 track - Clear at Widewater""CSX engine 4545 South at MP YYG 21.2 - EMERGENCY EMERGENCY EMERGENCY""CSX BD Dispatcher calling Q415-19, over"
jeffhergertThe FCC however, can listen in all they want.
And they do, sometimes with ominous consequences. I remember that the first spring I worked at WPRB, we had a soecial science-fiction-reading show once a week. This went swimmingly until along came the Harlan Ellison story 'A Boy and his Dog' -- the station management thought the readers had screened their copy, and apparently didn't comprehend that this wasn't a speculative-fiction Lassie story. I still remember the green look of dread on the then station manager's face as this progressed over the airwaves for a few minutes ... then the waiting for a call or letter of complaint. Things are not as stringent now, but I believe the consequences no less dire.
Consider the necessary procedures dictated by the FCC for communication over the citizen's bands. I know of NO ONE who used that rigmarole even experimentally when they set up a CB rig ... but at any point, the Government could easily have cracked down really hard on the convoys just by triangulating and then prosecuting users not using "proper procedure" all the time they were on the air ... much as was done to 'file sharers' to destroy Napster not all that much later.
jeffhergertThe FRA has to have the railroad's permission to listen in.
I suspect that means that in order for them to do anything actionable, they have to have the railroad's permission.
Anyone can listen to any radio transmission at any time. They just can't use what they hear for personal gain, ie, a wrecker operator responding to a wreck based on hearing the police dispatch for same.
There are, of course, agencies that use encryption, and there is one trunking technology in use that has not been shared with the scanner manufacturers, so it is basically unscannable.
tree68 Murphy Siding I've taught my guys to say "thank you" on the radio so both parties know the conversation is over...roger....huh? That's "out" at the end of a transmission. Cool idea though. I've seen it done in a diner, where the cooks call out the wait staff's name when they have an order up, and the waiter/waitress replies with "thank you" in acknowledgement. We had one crew member who's trademark acknowledgement was a drawn out "rajjjjjj". Every now and then you'll hear someone mimic it. The FRA prefers proper radio etiquette. Calling "Hey, Dave, this is Fred, push 'em over about ten cars," isn't going to fly, if they're listening. And they do. We usually only have one crew working within radio range, and pretty much everything is currently our equipment, so dropping the RR ("1234" vs "ABCX 1234") isn't a problem.
Murphy Siding I've taught my guys to say "thank you" on the radio so both parties know the conversation is over...roger....huh?
That's "out" at the end of a transmission. Cool idea though. I've seen it done in a diner, where the cooks call out the wait staff's name when they have an order up, and the waiter/waitress replies with "thank you" in acknowledgement.
We had one crew member who's trademark acknowledgement was a drawn out "rajjjjjj". Every now and then you'll hear someone mimic it.
The FRA prefers proper radio etiquette. Calling "Hey, Dave, this is Fred, push 'em over about ten cars," isn't going to fly, if they're listening. And they do.
We usually only have one crew working within radio range, and pretty much everything is currently our equipment, so dropping the RR ("1234" vs "ABCX 1234") isn't a problem.
The FRA has to have the railroad's permission to listen in. (Which I'm sure they have.) I found that out from a communications guy who was volunteering at the B&SV and helping them get an actual railroad radio channel. They had been using a public band and decided it was time to get their own. The FCC however, can listen in all they want.
Dropping the RR is a no-no, even if there isn't anyone around. It's probably one of the most overlooked rules. It's one of those they can use if they can't find something else.
Overmod Lithonia Operator There is no “over and out.” I guess it differs by context. I used 'over and out' for the same reasons I taught my crews to pick up the phone a beat after the second ring: it's easier for harried people on the other end to comprehend. "Over" means 'received and acknowledged', then "out" means 'I'm gone', off the air. Those are two separate understandings and require two separate acknowledgements. (At least, so said me.)
Lithonia Operator There is no “over and out.”
I guess it differs by context. I used 'over and out' for the same reasons I taught my crews to pick up the phone a beat after the second ring: it's easier for harried people on the other end to comprehend. "Over" means 'received and acknowledged', then "out" means 'I'm gone', off the air. Those are two separate understandings and require two separate acknowledgements. (At least, so said me.)
My first half of military service was in the tank corps. Radio communications is one of the principles of that branch of the service. We had a three month course in 'voice procedure', and there was a PO check at the end of it.
"Over" means "I have completed my message and you may now respond." [I'll shut up and listen until you reply to me.] The idea is that both of you are still going to exchange information. Hence, 'over', and not 'out.'
"Out' means, and it's almost always the initiator of the conversation in the first place who terminates the discussion (unless there's palpable tension and rancor brewing, and the recipient of the first communication elects to terminate the conversation him/herself), "I am yielding the airwaves to someone else who'd either like to contribute something or who wishes to use them to initiate their own conversation." Once the initiator says 'out', he is done. Anyone else listening who wishes to add something must initiate all over again with 'Two One, this is Two Two, we didn't leave that item where you found it....over." (Over meaning 'whaddaya say?')
'Out' is terminal, in which case 'over' is redundant. They are never said together except in movies.
Juniata Man Murphy Siding Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “your welcome”. You‘d prefer the now common millennial response of “no problem”?
Murphy Siding Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “your welcome”.
Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “your welcome”.
You‘d prefer the now common millennial response of “no problem”?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Lithonia Operator Juniata Man Murphy Siding Yep- and some of the guys even have the audacity to reply with “your welcome”. You‘d prefer the now common millennial response of “no problem”? When a waiter brings my meal, and I say “thank you,“ and the kid says “no problem,” I feel like saying: “I was being polite. I was not concerned about your mental health or possible inconvenience.”
LOL!
Lithonia OperatorWhen a waiter brings my meal, and I say “thank you,“ and the kid says “no problem,” I feel like saying: “I was being polite. I was not concerned about your mental health or possible inconvenience.”
Think of it as the contemporary equivalent of nadsat talk: in Spanish, our fast-evolving second language, the phrase 'de nada' is the polite response to any situation with 'thank you'. This millennial trope is just a poor English translation of that use.
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