Semper Vaporo So you want all the other threads to be Pollyanna, no problems, threads? No discussions of why or what may be contributing factors to the discussion at hand? What could make things better via different ideas? I agree that some of the acrimony can be totally out of place and useless to the sujbjects. Are we just supposed to come here to say so-n-so is a dork, but then make our arguments in the principal thread? I'd rather folk didn't say what another person is, in the other threads or here. Just say what you mean and don't repeat yourself when someone else speaks their mind in response.
So you want all the other threads to be Pollyanna, no problems, threads? No discussions of why or what may be contributing factors to the discussion at hand? What could make things better via different ideas? I agree that some of the acrimony can be totally out of place and useless to the sujbjects. Are we just supposed to come here to say so-n-so is a dork, but then make our arguments in the principal thread? I'd rather folk didn't say what another person is, in the other threads or here. Just say what you mean and don't repeat yourself when someone else speaks their mind in response.
That's not what I understand sour grapes to mean. It's not about attacking other posters or not saying anything involving a critical analysis. It's concerning the negativity of some, usually those who see contemporary events as inferior to their notion of a golden era.There is at least one example of that on this thread.
I saw the very end of steam, end of an interurban, end of private passenger services, end of featherbedding and much of phase one of diesels as well as today's rails with all its plusses and minuses , both here and abroad. There's something of value in all.
Can we have a "sour mash" forum instead of sour grapes?
Balt, if you haven't written any railroad-related articles or books, you ought to. I think your description of diesels (above) is almost poetic in its imagery. It was easy to imagine being there.
The comment about steam fans making diesel fans feel they missed everything worth experiencing made a good point. But there really was something ineffable about steam engines; it's probably why crowds turn out to watch them on the Cuyahoga Valley line; not many stand by to watch first generation diesels there.
My gripes:
1. I still miss cabooses. Today, after the locomotives pass by, why stick around? Is watching another hundred freight containers pass by better than the first hundred?
2. I agree with Miningman that watching trains made up of only one type of railcar, to say nothing of containers, are inherently less interesting than the traditional mixed freights that caught my attention when I was young.
3. I miss the freedom to go onto railroad property to take photos, go up into towers to talk to operators, and to talk my way into cab rides. I remember some years ago a discussion here or in the magazine about not only never looking out a dutch door, but to stop publishing photos that were made that way. Imagine! Now we get censorious when we see a published photo of a photograper on RR property.
4. I agree with Flintlock76 (again): It's poor form for any American to use the term Canuck unless it's with friends and everyone's in the same room, just in case someone takes exception and a punch needs to be thrown.
5. The constant back-and-forth discussion about the efficacy of ending LD Amtrak service probably hasn't changed many, if any, minds. Like the topic of abortion in newspaper letters, it amounts to lots of venting and posturing, but no persuading. Still, I don't expect to see the end to either discussion any time soon.
You nailed it Miningman! Cracked me up with the cow references too!
Oh, trains are still fun to watch in these diesel days, I'm tempted to say "Better than nuthin'," but that's extreme.
For me at least, seeing steam in action and then comparing it to a diesel, well, there's no comparison. Drama plus personality plus power, versus, well, power only.
Sand Patch Grade. The ghosts of those old steamers are still there. They say you can walk on the grade and still sink ankle-deep in the cinders left behind by those long-gone behemoths.
Uh, Savage Tunnel, take it easy on the "Canuck" thing. Our Canadian cousins may take it as a joke, or as an insult, you can never be sure. I stay away from that term as I would any ethnic "nickname," for lack of a better term.
Unless it's "guinea" or "mick." Being part of both and applying it to myself only on occasion I figure I'm allowed.
Backshop According to some, those of us too young to remember steam (I'm 60) have just been wasting our time all these years...
According to some, those of us too young to remember steam (I'm 60) have just been wasting our time all these years...
I regret not being a railfan as a youth (and/or not having a father who was), as GT was still running steam near us on a regular basis when I was old enough to appreciate (and perhaps photograph) it in operation.
OTOH, C&O was running it's legions of "flat land" Geeps through our village, and while I wasn't necessarily captivated by them, I remember them.
I got a "tour" of a Geep once as it sat on the siding, a local waiting for through traffic to clear. Probably the fireman opened doors so I could see the prime mover (I don't recall being all that impressed). As he was doing so, the through train passed, and I must have asked if the locomotives on it were the same. I do recall being told that those locos were "bigger," which, in retrospect, must have meant they were SDs, not Geeps.
Where's the time machine when you need it?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Miningman will obviously never appreciate a trio of SW7's on IHB working their guts out on level track in Hammond with a trainload of steel coils and steel plates.
Railroading is always fascinating, even when it's three trains of MU cars exchanging passengers at Jamaica.
Miningman Is there enough popcorn on the planet for this show? However.. while the popcorn is popping we can take a break from the schadenfreude and focus on what's really bugging us. I'll take a swing and an old one rehashed one at that but I'm going down with valour and holding my ground. Spillover, from Classic Trains Photo of the Day. Sand Patch Baltimore & Ohio F7s tackle the twisting approach to the Sand Patch summit in southern Pennsylvania with an eastbound coal train in February 1953. The B&O had almost 300 F7 A and B units, in addition to FT, F3, and FP7 models.S.K. Bolton Jr. photo Coal being hauled by F7's in whatever configuration over Sand Patch. About as exciting as watching paint dry. No steam working to its limit, wheels valiantly rotating as the rods struggle to push in unison. No poetry in motion. Might as well watch a bus go by somewhere and smell the stinky exhaust. No coal smoke, valve oil and steam. Worse yet it's a poke in the eye to the coal industry. 300 boring lifeless lookalikes on the B&O. Early 1953 too! Thousands more here and coming nationwide. No crack of an articulated. No whistle. A sick cow horn the equivalent sound of passing gas. No romance, No charm. Some say, " I love the sound of 567's working a drag uphill"... gimme a break, even as a kid I knew better. I walked away. Just a stupid Diesel who cares.
Is there enough popcorn on the planet for this show?
However.. while the popcorn is popping we can take a break from the schadenfreude and focus on what's really bugging us.
I'll take a swing and an old one rehashed one at that but I'm going down with valour and holding my ground.
Spillover, from Classic Trains Photo of the Day.
Baltimore & Ohio F7s tackle the twisting approach to the Sand Patch summit in southern Pennsylvania with an eastbound coal train in February 1953. The B&O had almost 300 F7 A and B units, in addition to FT, F3, and FP7 models.S.K. Bolton Jr. photo
Coal being hauled by F7's in whatever configuration over Sand Patch.
About as exciting as watching paint dry. No steam working to its limit, wheels valiantly rotating as the rods struggle to push in unison. No poetry in motion. Might as well watch a bus go by somewhere and smell the stinky exhaust. No coal smoke, valve oil and steam. Worse yet it's a poke in the eye to the coal industry. 300 boring lifeless lookalikes on the B&O. Early 1953 too! Thousands more here and coming nationwide.
No crack of an articulated. No whistle. A sick cow horn the equivalent sound of passing gas. No romance, No charm.
Some say, " I love the sound of 567's working a drag uphill"... gimme a break, even as a kid I knew better. I walked away. Just a stupid Diesel who cares.
But yet I'll wager you've never been there... in any era.
It's too bad that you feel you have to dominate discussions on both forums, maybe it's a Canuck thing.I prefered Sand Patch in the 1970s, SD's, Chessie Steam Special, and a neat swimming hole.
Quartet of SD40-2s soving a train up the west slope in PA. Ground vibrating a mile before you see them. Yeah, steam put on a show, but diesels can move more with such elegance. Then with the push of a button they can be silent until needed again.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Thanks BALTADC. Trains are still worth watching, photographing, and, at least for me, riding.
Miningman No romance, No charm.
I'm with you, Miningman. Steam was alive. I still get a thrill remembering as a kid, lying in bed listening to a steam locomotive struggling to start a train out of the yard, taking up slack, trying again, sometimes with drivers slipping. When he finally got the train out on the main, he'd gradually accelerate, he'd blow the whistle for the crossing at the edge of town, and the sound gradually faded off in the distance. I couldn't help but get emotionally involved.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
MiningmanIs there enough popcorn on the planet for this show? However.. while the popcorn is popping we can take a break from the schadenfreude and focus on what's really bugging us. I'll take a swing and an old one rehashed one at that but I'm going down with valour and holding my ground. Spillover, from Classic Trains Photo of the Day. Sand Patch Baltimore & Ohio F7s tackle the twisting approach to the Sand Patch summit in southern Pennsylvania with an eastbound coal train in February 1953. The B&O had almost 300 F7 A and B units, in addition to FT, F3, and FP7 models.S.K. Bolton Jr. photo Coal being hauled by F7's in whatever configuration over Sand Patch. About as exciting as watching paint dry. No steam working to its limit, wheels valiantly rotating as the rods struggle to push in unison. No poetry in motion. Might as well watch a bus go by somewhere and smell the stinky exhaust. No coal smoke, valve oil and steam. Worse yet it's a poke in the eye to the coal industry. 300 boring lifeless lookalikes on the B&O. Early 1953 too! Thousands more here and coming nationwide. No crack of an articulated. No whistle. A sick cow horn the equivalent sound of passing gas. No romance, No charm. Some say, " I love the sound of 567's working a drag uphill"... gimme a break, even as a kid I knew better. I walked away. Just a stupid Diesel who cares.
567's working to their limit - the smell of overheating traction motors straining and occasioually slipping and the the sounds and smells of overheating steel as the engines scratch and claw their way up the grade struggling to maintain their minimum continuous speed in a cloud of dust from the sand being dropped to enhance traction and being ground into powder by the passing wheels and blown around the the traction motor blowers.
I worked as the Operator at Bakerstown, PA - just about 20 car lengths from the crest of Bakerstown Hill on the B&O's P&W Sub between Pittsburgh, New Castle and the Buffalo Division points North of Eidenau (worked there too). Normal traffic was coal trains from the mines in SW Pennsylvania to New Castle and the Buffalo Division. About 5 minutes BEFORE trains hit the bell circuit you could hear the 567's chanting their way through the valley as the were working their way up the grade. As the head end started past the depot you would hear the 567's working to their max, the air compressors doing their thing and activating the spitter valve to vent moisture from the air system, hear the screech of an axle losing grip and having wheel slip until the wheel slip system caught it. Being on jointed rail you would hear the constant click, click click as the train started past - when the power and about 30 cars went past you could perceptably hear the rate of clicking on the joints becoming quicker and quicker as the head end crested the grade and started down the other side. The clicking picked up speed and then you could see the markers on the caboose come into view around the curve and the two unit helper still shoving for all its worth against the cab. As the two unit 3000 to 3500 hp helper passes the office they are throttling down and the brakeman on the cab is closing the angle cocks and making the cut to detach the helper. The helper stops just West of the trailing point crossovers, which I throw and give them a proceed signal to head back down the hill on the Eastbound track for their next shove.
Days long gone. The P&W was made into single track CTC in the middle 1970's. CSX stopped operating over it about 2006 and it was subsequently leased to both the Buffalo & Pittsburgh and the Allegheny Valley with the dividing point being Allison Park. I believe the AVL just converted their lease into a purchase; to my knowledge the B&P is still leasing. This was the original route of the Capitol Limited and all other B&O passenger trains until the trackage rights agreement was negotiated with the P&LE in the middle 30's.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Thanks for taking up the suggestion.
CMStPnP I think railroads could save on rail grinding costs if they used square wheels.
I think railroads could save on rail grinding costs if they used square wheels.
How much would they save if they used "hip" wheels?
How about using this thread for all of our griping about what's wrong with today's railroads (including but not limited to PSR & PTC), businesses, administration's decisions (relating to transportation), etc.
Perhaps we can all vent here without us having to bring down the discussions on other threads. Arguing here is fine; better here than in the other locations.
However, be advised before opening this thread that there might be some acrimonious verbiage and behavior.
I was going to use the 'popcorn' emoticon (needed for watching the show), but I did not see it as one of the choices, so I went with pizza.
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