charlie hebdoGiven Mike's long experience in the petrochemical industry, he knows.
And not only does he know, his morals are good.
tdmidgetWhat more could you want than the SDS? Why do you carry on with this hysteria about nothing? What makes you think that HCL or HF are used ? How could they be when they would react with the well structure before reaching the pay zone?
HCl or HF (depending on the pay zone rock type) are used to dissolve the rock matrix along the fracture. They are isolated from the well structure by tubing and packer, plus they use inhibitor to protect the metal. I know this because I have been on a thousand frac jobs.
MidlandMike tdmidget What more could you want than the SDS? Why do you carry on with this hysteria about nothing? What makes you think that HCL or HF are used ? How could they be when they would react with the well structure before reaching the pay zone? HCl or HF (depending on the pay zone rock type) are used to dissolve the rock matrix along the fracture. They are isolated from the well structure by tubing and packer, plus they use inhibitor to protect the metal. I know this because I have been on a thousand frac jobs.
tdmidget What more could you want than the SDS? Why do you carry on with this hysteria about nothing? What makes you think that HCL or HF are used ? How could they be when they would react with the well structure before reaching the pay zone?
I would agree, based on the number of tank cars loaded with various kinds of acids and other chemicals that are shipped to oilfield companies in fracking country out here. Not to mention all the methanol and various grades of light hydrocarbons that are shipped TO the patch.
The trainloads of frac sand do a pretty good job of illustrating just how much fracking is going on.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
What is the purpose of frac sand? Just curious.
To put it simply, the sand props open the rock fractures that are created by the initial fracking process, thus allowing oil and gas to continue to flow freely through the cracks and make it to the well.
https://geology.com/articles/frac-sand/
Mike can explain it way better than me.
Great article. Thanks SD70Dude.
SD70Dude To put it simply, the sand props open the rock fractures that are created by the initial fracking process, thus allowing oil and gas to continue to flow freely through the cracks and make it to the well. https://geology.com/articles/frac-sand/ Mike can explain it way better than me.
You said it all, everything else is just detail.
Its my understanding that much of the wind power in parts of Europe comes from wind turbines in the ocean which so far has faced stiff resistence in the US. That also covers up the dead bird problem (especially bad for eagles and hawks)which results from the wind turbines. In the US, wind power would be seriously hampered if the industry had to live by the same standards and fines as any other industry, farm, or person. Unfortunately, bowing to political pressure Obama extended their complete exemption for 15 years later in his administration. Also, if you talk to anyone who lives near the wind farms they'll tell you they hate the noise from the turbines. That's why rural areas are more and more resisting them in their area, especially since its the urban areas that benefit the most. As for solar, there are many problems with large solar installations including the distribution systems. Again, large solar operations (as opposed to individual homes) are very bad for the birds and would face heavy fines if they had the same standard as other businesses and folks. Also, the energy sector of the US employs a lot of people in high-paying jobs vs the solar and wind sectors. Then there is also the problem that China (which is generally recognized as the US's #1 long-term threat to its security) dominates the solar power panels market so any US push for major expansion of solar power just puts more money in their pocket.
alphas... Then there is also the problem that China (which is generally recognized as the US's #1 long-term threat to its security) dominates the solar power panels market so any US push for major expansion of solar power just puts more money in their pocket.
During the last administration, solar and other alternative energy developement were incentivized. However, when Congress flipped, there was an outcry of "boondoggle", and support was taken away just as the solar industry was scaling up. Then guess which country's state enterprises bought up all the US solar companies, and acquired all the technology that your tax dollars helped to develope?
Flintlock76 One problem I can see with solar farms is they take up an awful lot of space. The "eyesore" argument some place against them is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Hey, if they work, good.
One problem I can see with solar farms is they take up an awful lot of space. The "eyesore" argument some place against them is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
Hey, if they work, good.
Another one.... talks about eyesore issue. Also, about Korean solar panel company in Dalton, GA. Korean solar cells assembled into panels in US. Georgia has been actively courting Korean investment since Kia plant siting some years ago.
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/24/733795962/how-georgia-became-a-surprising-bright-spot-in-the-u-s-solar-industry
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
alphasIts my understanding that much of the wind power in parts of Europe comes from wind turbines in the ocean which so far has faced stiff resistence in the US. That also covers up the dead bird problem (especially bad for eagles and hawks)which results from the wind turbines.
The ones I saw in the English Channel were too far out to effect Eagles and Ospreys. Don't know about other birds, but I suspect reducing bird strikes is somthing we'll have to figure out "on the fly". Same thing with issues from fracking. Benefits are just too great to stop until everything is perfect.
FWIW, "outdoor" cats kill billions of songbirds every year, so maybe thousands of bird deaths from wind turbines is tolerable.
oltmanndFWIW, "outdoor" cats kill billions of songbirds every year, so maybe thousands of bird deaths from wind turbines is tolerable.
I see a solution here: provide incentives to TNR-program entities like Alley Cat Allies to release the neutered felines preferentially into the areas where the wind turbines operate. This will reduce the 'waste' involved with bird kill and, perhaps, selective reduce at least some of the prey species of birds in the area, leading to fewer raptor 'issues'.
Might also get rid of those nasty people at PETA setting up the sham Nazi-like death camps for cats under the guise of 'saving more little lives' and what-not.
A plan to put turbines on an island on Lake Ontario has met with stiff opposition, although I suspect if they could restrict the bird kill to double breasted cormorants, there would be a lot of cheering.
Several years ago opposition, mostly from "summer people," killed another wind project in the area. Ironically, those turbines would not have obstructed their view of Lake Ontario or the St Lawrence River.
On the other hand, a Canadian group installed around a hundred turbines on a large island across the river, in plain view of those selfsame folks who protested the project on the US side. For those who had supported the US project, there was a bit of a sense of poetic justice...
It's interesting to note that many times the opposition to such projects comes not from the local residents (who stand to benefit from taxes or other such payments) but from those who live outside the affected area.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I'm puzzled on this one. Some sources say wind farms kill birds, others say the bird-kill figures are greatly exaggerated, if not absolutely bogus to begin with.
The same goes for solar panel farms.
Does anyone really know the truth of all this?
Flintlock76Does anyone really know the truth of all this?
The truth is undoubtedly out there, but both sides have a vested interest in promoting their "findings." That's going to make it just that much harder to find the actual results of any studies that have been done.
Flintlock76I'm puzzled on this one. Some sources say wind farms kill birds, others say the bird-kill figures are greatly exaggerated, if not absolutely bogus to begin with. The same goes for solar panel farms. Does anyone really know the truth of all this?
I do know that in my trip to Watkins Glen last month I saw a number of 'fields' being planted with solar panels. I have no idea what the return of that kind of 'cash crop' will be.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
[quote user="Flintlock76"]
No one knows the numbers for sure since the Wind Industry is not required to keep count but based upon what information is available its probably a lot. Also, it isn't just the songbirds & similar. The Obama Administration was debating allowing the Wind energy people to legally kill 6,000 eagles [4,000 Bald and 2,000 Golden] over a 2 year period (no limit on hawks). It was dropped because of both the outcry that killing 16% of the US eagle population every 2 years was not good politically, and by political pressure from the Wind industry which has a lot of influence, especially with the Dems. The killing of an eagle by any other industry, farm, or indivdiual can result in a fine of up to $20,000 and jail time or probation. Even possessing an eagle feather illegally can get you up to a $1,000 fine. Obama's decision left no restrictions on any bird or raptor killed by the Wind energy sector.
Think of it this way--if it wasn't an issue why did the Wind industry fight so hard not to be under the same rules as everyone else, even fighting the 6,000 figure over the 2 years?
The only good news is the more modern wind turbine blades aren't quite as bad as the older ones. However, with Obama's 15 year exemption there isn't any real pressure to develope even better ones right now.
BaltACD Flintlock76 I'm puzzled on this one. Some sources say wind farms kill birds, others say the bird-kill figures are greatly exaggerated, if not absolutely bogus to begin with. The same goes for solar panel farms. Does anyone really know the truth of all this? I do know that in my trip to Watkins Glen last month I saw a number of 'fields' being planted with solar panels. I have no idea what the return of that kind of 'cash crop' will be.
Flintlock76 I'm puzzled on this one. Some sources say wind farms kill birds, others say the bird-kill figures are greatly exaggerated, if not absolutely bogus to begin with. The same goes for solar panel farms. Does anyone really know the truth of all this?
Without going into specifics, I have first hand knowledge that it pays more per acre to lease out for solar than any other use available for a few hundred acres of rural land, including gas rights (of which I have second hand knowledge).
alphasDoes anyone really know the truth of all this?
Perhaps a good starting place that avoids much of the political crapola is the Fish & Wildlife Service page with current policy documents.
Note that some of the issues surrounding incidental take permitting still seem a bit suspicious to me. But best to start with the facts in order to get better documentation of the actual opposition to the idea.
Thanks Overmod!
I'll have to make sure I'm well-fortified with caffeine before I start reading.
Well, this weirded out trying to quote a post. See next post below instead.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
alphas Flintlock76 I'm puzzled on this one. Some sources say wind farms kill birds, others say the bird-kill figures are greatly exaggerated, if not absolutely bogus to begin with. The same goes for solar panel farms. Does anyone really know the truth of all this? No one knows the numbers for sure since the Wind Industry is not required to keep count but based upon what information is available its probably a lot. Also, it isn't just the songbirds & similar. The Obama Administration was debating allowing the Wind energy people to legally kill 6,000 eagles [4,000 Bald and 2,000 Golden] over a 2 year period (no limit on hawks). It was dropped because of both the outcry that killing 16% of the US eagle population every 2 years was not good politically, and by political pressure from the Wind industry which has a lot of influence, especially with the Dems. The killing of an eagle by any other industry, farm, or indivdiual can result in a fine of up to $20,000 and jail time or probation. Even possessing an eagle feather illegally can get you up to a $1,000 fine. Obama's decision left no restrictions on any bird or raptor killed by the Wind energy sector. Think of it this way--if it wasn't an issue why did the Wind industry fight so hard not to be under the same rules as everyone else, even fighting the 6,000 figure over the 2 years? The only good news is the more modern wind turbine blades aren't quite as bad as the older ones. However, with Obama's 15 year exemption there isn't any real pressure to develope even better ones right now.
We have a lake cabin in an area surrounded by windmills. I've been near lots of windmills and stood at the base of several. I saw no dead birds. Why would a bird be more likely to be hit by a windmill blade than running into the picture window on our cabin? One of the negatives mentioned about windmills is that they make noise. They do if you're up close (or in the air around them). But they are out in a field so there's really no one there to hear the noise. Birds have a good sense of hearing. Wouldn't they avoid something relatively noisy like a windmill? I think the bird kill issue is overstated. Besides, in out part of the country, the eagles hang out near rivers with big trees. The windmills hang out in cornfields on top of hills. I've never seen eagles around windmills nor windmills around eagles.[/quote]
Murphy SidingOne of the negatives mentioned about windmills is that they make noise.
The sound I hear referred to with regard to wind turbines is infrasonic - very low frequencies. Critics of the turbines will tell you that such sound causes myriad health issues.
So far, I haven't heard of any of those symptoms coming to pass around the local turbines.
One issue that can be very real is when the blades pick up ice and it cuts loose. It can be thrown a considerable distance.
I think they're kind of graceful.
The area astride I-65 in the vicinity of Remington, IN is a Win Farm as well as traditional farming.
https://earth.google.com/web/@40.69128218,-87.0621903,224.14583055a,9195.46371128d,35y,0h,0t,0r
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