Trains.com

Churchill Line Progress

11840 views
78 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, September 15, 2018 12:25 PM

All kidding about peas aside, this is really good news to hear.

There's a lesson here.  If you push at the walls hard enough, and long enough, sometimes you can move them. 

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Saturday, September 15, 2018 12:10 PM
  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,449 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, September 14, 2018 10:12 PM

BaltACD

With Climate Change and global warming, the shipping season at Churchill should be lengthened over the historic norms.  There is money to be made from global warming and people out there willing to bet on it.

 

What happens if that global climate change dries up the grain crop?

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Friday, September 14, 2018 6:12 PM

Churchill's portliest booster says “We’ll be looking at fertilizer. We’ll be looking at potash. We’ll be looking at things like cement and any other dry products that come in for Western Canada.”

https://www.producer.com/2018/09/new-railway-owners-optimistic-about-export-potential/

Also...Well he ain't Stompin' Tom but his hearts in the right place!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6G-OEhtQF4

 

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, September 14, 2018 5:09 PM

Out here crops are of course predominantly harvested starting in late summer, and railroad grain traffic is highest during and after the harvest season, but it does not disappear during the rest of the year.  That's where storage capacity comes in.  Prairie farmers and large elevators store the harvest and ship it out gradually year-round. 

The hectic days of the fall grain rush, with double-headed Ten-Wheelers and Pacifics or 4+ unit consists of GMD1's, SW1200's and various MLW switchers tiptoeing along 60 lb jointed rail to and from the iconic wooden "prairie skyscrapers" in every small town are long in the past.

Today prairie grain traffic is dominated by massive inland terminals that receive 100+ car spots, load all those cars in one day, and store much, much more.  That capacity has evened out grain shipments across the year, while also killing off many branchlines that the new terminals did not locate on.

Also, rail shipments to Churchill have historically been more cost-effective during winter, as the frozen ground and subgrade can support heavier, fully loaded cars.  Of course ships cannot access the Arctic Ocean and Hudson Bay during that part of the year, but as was mentioned global warming is making the shipping season longer with each passing year.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, September 14, 2018 4:46 PM

PNWRMNM
I assume the buyer/shipper has given this a lot of thought and see the point in reducing rail miles, but tell me about seasons.

When, what months, are Canadian peas and pulse crops harvested. What is shipping season at Churchill month open month closed.

Clearly once port closes is still possible to ship to Churchill to fill export elevator and ship last year's crop after break up of the ice before this year's becomes available. I also assume CP and CN would be willing to lease power and cars during the winter for grain to Vancouver, at least most years. Those are expensive assets to have sitting idle.

Mac

With Climate Change and global warming, the shipping season at Churchill should be lengthened over the historic norms.  There is money to be made from global warming and people out there willing to bet on it.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 2,593 posts
Posted by PNWRMNM on Friday, September 14, 2018 2:23 PM

I assume the buyer/shipper has given this a lot of thought and see the point in reducing rail miles, but tell me about seasons.

When, what months, are Canadian peas and pulse crops harvested. What is shipping season at Churchill month open month closed.

Clearly once port closes is still possible to ship to Churchill to fill export elevator and ship last year's crop after break up of the ice before this year's becomes available. I also assume CP and CN would be willing to lease power and cars during the winter for grain to Vancouver, at least most years. Those are expensive assets to have sitting idle.

Mac

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, September 14, 2018 9:34 AM

From a logistics standpoint, harvesting produce from the northern prairies occurs while the Port Of Churchill is still open for shipping.

If the harvest can be delivered to Churchill in a timely manner, it can get shipped out in a timely manner.

Churchill is actually not that far from Europe going over the top - it is only 3,351 nautical miles to Amsterdam.

By comparison, Halifax is 2,810 nautical miles to Amsterdam.

But it is much farther by rail from Winnipeg to Halifax (roughly 2,500 miles) than from Winnipeg to Churchill (roughly 1,100 Miles).

So total transportation costs are likely to be much lower from Winnipeg to Europe using the Port Of Churchill during the months when the shipping lanes are open, if you can do the rail transport economically. 

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Calgary
  • 2,047 posts
Posted by cx500 on Friday, September 14, 2018 9:29 AM

The reason for shipping that way is that it is the shortest route when shipping to Europe.  By reducing the transportation cost it benefits the producers.  Churchill may seem a long way from anywhere, but it is not the destination, merely a transshipping point for the grains and pulse.  Vancouver, Thunder Bay and Montreal are also a long way from most destinations, as well as a long way from the Prairies.

Shipping export grain off the Canadian Prairies always involves a long rail trip to start, and from many locations Churchill is the shortest.  For grain going east it avoids the additional middle leg of transferring to lakers for the long trip through the Great Lakes and Seaway to be transferred (again) to salties.  And because of winter, that middle portion is also a part time route, albeit with a shorter interruption.  With the warming of the arctic the shipping season at Churchill is already longer than in the past, and the trend is expected to continue.

The Crow grain rates were a different beast.  The agreement signed (with one railway) had a limited application, and the rate was a normal commercial rate for the time.  Unfortunately no clause was included to allow for inflation, since that was not the consistent trend we experience today.  It was subsequently expanded unilaterally by the government to cover all railways and shipping points, and as you say, many farmers considered it sacred.  We all would enjoy paying 1900 era prices as long as our income was in current dollars.

 

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Friday, September 14, 2018 9:12 AM

The Bloomberg article is about the company that bought the Churchill Line. It was posted to show their  experience in railroading and bought the line at the time for their business of growing and shipping produce. Connect the dots!!! ...Duh!!

Better still learn how to think!

 

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, September 14, 2018 7:15 AM

So why would anybody ship anything to a part-time port a long way from anywhere?  But I digress, these are the same people that believed that the Crows Nest Pass grain rates were a human right.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    January 2018
  • 16 posts
Posted by dwill49965 on Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:00 PM

Umm, you guys do realize that the linked Bloomberg article is almost 3 years old?  From Dec 15, 2015?  I couldn't read the article because I don't subscribe, but lets not get too excited yet.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 13, 2018 6:53 PM

You betcha Firelock!

All this bloviating about grain cars size and 'you can't' ...along with ' no longer viable' by people thousands and thousands of miles away whose sole connection and expertise to the Far North Sub Arctic is their designer down-filled parka they parade around and sweat in at the local mall. 

The new owners have an agenda, and they own the agenda! We grow a lot more than wheat on the Prairies ...duh.

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, September 13, 2018 6:01 PM

Tommy Roe would approve.

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, September 13, 2018 5:25 PM

"All we are saying, is give peas a chance..."  Whistling

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:36 PM

Support the Churchill Rail Line and Eat Your Peas!!

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:30 PM

The biggest problem may be how does the rebuilders get past wash outs to work on others ?  Sure there is a way maybe high rail equipment that can drive on ground around wash outs ?

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Calgary
  • 2,047 posts
Posted by cx500 on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:09 PM

The Bloomberg article explains why this venture may succeed where Omitrax came to grief.  Finally there is an important shipper on the Prairies that has real incentive to use the route to Churchill and the terminal elevator, since it is the same owner.  The Wheat Board had the incentive that the route put more money in the farmers' pockets rather than the big grain companies, which is perhaps another reason why the government of the day was anxious to destroy it.

It will be interesting to see if they pursue the producer-loaded grain shipments as well, although dealing with CN and CP for something other than 112+ car unit trains may be difficult.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy