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China's rail projects.....not all are happy.

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China's rail projects.....not all are happy.
Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:35 PM

Yes, I realize it's not good to single source the news like this and I think the commentator comes off as a jerk but it was easier to cut and paste the links from one source.    There is also a great source on China internally what is going on from two guys in their 30's that lived there the past 10-12 years and their channel is AdvChina (they seem to be real honest almost to the point of "I didn't know you could say that while in China.....").   

This does not surprise me on how China is structuring these deals it is exactly how the former Soviet Union used to structure arms deals and economic deals.....I suspect that is where the Chinese learned this....

Kenya Rail Project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1TMKKzedd0&t=381s

Euro - Asia Rail Project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lexw4DhWXaA

Malaysia Rail Project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThedGta_zr4&t=366s

 

 

      

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, September 7, 2018 8:06 PM

Thanks, CMStPnP, for posting the links.

  Seems the Chinese are still up to their old tricks.  Recall back in 1996/97 when the Bill Clinton Admin was on the cusp of selling/leasing(?); The then closed/surplused(?) Long Beach Naval Base to the China Ocean Shipping Company [COSCO]. Fortunately, the deal was stopped by congresional action(?).  Sounds remarkably,similar to the scenarios described in the YouTube linked videos. 

Also, There is the Chinese'presence' in the Panama Canal: 

See article linked @ https://www.newsroompanama.com/news/panama/us-concerns-over-chinese-expansion-in-panama-canal-region

Then there is this from the link above:FTL: "...The Torrijos – Carter Treaty, for the return of the Canal, guarantees free international transit and reserves Washington the right to intervene if that freedom is threatened. The waterway is fundamental for communications and trade between the two US coasts.  Tidd, quoted by the Spanish newspaper, said that “the greater scope of crucial global access points such as Panama creates commercial and security vulnerabilities for the United States..."Whistling

 

 


 

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Posted by greyhounds on Saturday, September 8, 2018 6:44 PM

I always thought that Chinese Kenya rail project smelled bad.  

Kenya had an existing rail system that, if properly run and maintained, could meet the needs of that nation.  (IMHO)  It is a meter gauge system, but look at what they've done with meter gauge in Brazil.  In Brazil they've made their meter gauge into a heavy haul system to move iron ore.  They use North American type locomotives modified with eight axles instead of six.  ISO containers and passengers are handled just fine.

Kenya has a major problem with corruption.  I'll wager that the "right" people were paid off quite well.  The Kenyan people will be saddled with the debt.  It is most unfortunate.

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 9, 2018 5:12 AM

The channel China Uncensored seems to be very biased. So I#m very carefully with their information.

Just a few comments about the Euro Asia landbridge. Currently there are about 35 weekly trains in each direction between German and Chinese destinations. The numbers are rising.

The trains need about 14 to 19 days, only half of a ship's transit times (28 to 35). It is naturally more expensive.

According to a German logistic provider the rail transport costs for 16,5 tons or 2118 cubic ft (FEU) are $9,000, by sea $2,400 and air freight $54,000.

It is an offer for companies that need shorter transit times than sea transport can provide but don't need the speed of air transport (3-7 days).

And there seem to be a market.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, September 9, 2018 8:01 AM

[quote user="greyhounds"]

"I always thought that Chinese Kenya rail project smelled bad..."  

Kenya had an existing rail system that, if properly run and maintained, could meet the needs of that nation.  (IMHO)  It is a meter gauge system, but look at what they've done with meter gauge in Brazil.  In Brazil they've made their meter gauge into a heavy haul system to move iron ore.  They use North American type locomotives modified with eight axles instead of six.  ISO containers and passengers are handled just fine.

"...Kenya has a major problem with corruption.  I'll wager that the "right" people were paid off quite well.  The Kenyan people will be saddled with the debt.  It is most unfortunate...

[/quote]  Based upon some of the posted links and comments in this Thread, concerning the Chinese ability to pick countries to 'aid' financially; it seems that a major component of the Chinese6+ Financial plans is to pick countries that either have, or are on the cusp of being a 'Kleptocratic' form of government(?) the citizens get saddled with a long term debt arrangement that makes them indebted to the Chinese Government, 'and those citizens are left holding the bag'(?) IMHO.

 

 


 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, September 9, 2018 8:09 AM

An unbiased report for everyone who are interested in this topic:

The Rise of China-Europe Railways

March 6, 2018

https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-china-europe-railways

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:56 AM

greyhounds
I always thought that Chinese Kenya rail project smelled bad. Kenya had an existing rail system that, if properly run and maintained, could meet the needs of that nation. (IMHO) It is a meter gauge system, but look at what they've done with meter gauge in Brazil.

Hee is a less biased view of the Kenya Railway by Chatham House, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, in the UK. https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/lessons-kenya-s-new-chinese-funded-railway

Sometimes it is less expensive to build new than rebuild and than you better use standards gauge.

I think the Chinese step in where the European colonial powers left open spaces. Most of the foreign aid the European Union paid to developing countries in Africa benefit European not local companies.

The EU floods these countries with surplus cheap agricultural products like e.g. chicken parts, pigs, milk powder or second hand cloths destroying local industries.

No wonder they chose to different countries forinfrastructure projects. A better choice? Only time will tell.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 9, 2018 11:02 AM

Jones1945
An unbiased report for everyone who are interested in this topic: The Rise of China-Europe Railways March 6, 2018 https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-china-europe-railways

Thanks for the link.

I think it will remain a niche market. The capacity on European rail lines is too limited to accomodate unlimited growth.

The price comparison with sea transport might get better when the IMO regulation requiring lower sulfur fuels come into force. Than ships need to switch Heavy Fuel Oil to Marine Diesel Oil (50% more expensive) or install scrubbers and catalysts.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, September 9, 2018 9:57 PM

Don’t they lose a considerable amount of time because of the gauge change at the Russia or Kazakhstan borders and then back to standard gauge for the European network?

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 10, 2018 4:11 AM

They transload the containers of a complete train in about an hour. Not significant on travel times of about two weeks.

A gauge change was dismissed because of different coupler systems.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, September 10, 2018 9:10 PM

Is ther some thought that the proposed Southern Corridor could be standard gauge, thus eliminating the two gauge changes?

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 6:20 AM

Volker, is it correct to assume that they are running single stack containers on European-length trains? If so then it would make sense that the containers could be swapped in an hour between gauges.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 6:36 AM

This article talks about some ambitious plans to cross Kazakhstan with a standard gauge line from China to Iran. Iran and Turkey are standard gauge so it would therefore create a standard gauge link from the Pacific to the Atlantic.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/trans-kazakhstan-link-will-complete-standard-gauge-transcontinental-artery.html

Not sure how much has actually happened since the article date of 2004, however. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:44 AM

kgbw49

Volker, is it correct to assume that they are running single stack containers on European-length trains? If so then it would make sense that the containers could be swapped in an hour between gauges.

 

Yes, they are single stack. Double stacks don't fit underneath the catenary.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by Victrola1 on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:57 AM

China has brought back building railroads as part of an overall geopolitical strategy. If trade by sea may become threatened, go overland. 

Berlin to Baghdad has become Bejing to Berlin. 

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/de-berlin-baghdad-3.htm

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