Trains.com

Engineer Certification - CSX Style

5604 views
35 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 10:12 PM

Deggesty

As to sending Private Messages, I have no trouble in making paragraphs, simply by using the enter key--and other people who send such to me are also able to separate their mesages into paragraphs. 

 

I believe there is something to do with what browser you use or some other technological thing that I don't understand. When I PM someone from my home computer, I get paragraphs. When I send a PM from my work computer, no paragraphs. Well, technically, one paragraph but it runs on and on.Sigh

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:47 PM

Cotton Belt MP104
But darn it, you have the facts wrong. I do not do email on a cell phone. I even hate to text on the cell. I do laptop PC and email. No Facebook. Just old fashion email. Just moments ago I typed a 12 paragraph PM to a poster.

Why revert to the nearly illegible format?

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 4:37 PM

As to sending Private Messages, I have no trouble in making paragraphs, simply by using the enter key--and other people who send such to me are also able to separate their mesages into paragraphs. 

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 310 posts
Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 4:19 PM

tree68
 
charlie hebdo
Oddly enough, his post today was in a readable format with generally accepted grammar and syntax.

 

In MP's defense (we had a similar discussion off-line) part of the problem has been trying to post on a phone, where most methods of proper formatting, etc, seem to be an exercise in futility...

 

Tree, thanks.

But darn it, you have the facts wrong. I do not do email on a cell phone. I even hate to text on the cell. I do laptop PC and email. No Facebook. Just old fashion email. Just moments ago I typed a 12 paragraph PM to a poster.

Why so many paragraphs?  Since I have nothing important to say, the length of the message was to test the idea of paragraphs being retained when the "REPLY" was activated.

Yes, it came out as one long long long paragraph.  With that said and proven, it seems to be the only way to seperate the text for intelligent reading is to have .............seperations.......................

But then I digress, it needs be something of import before being posted. That pretty much leaves me out.  Just kidding on the pitty party last sentence.  mike  endmrw0627181615 ..............for the record this was to be 5 paragraphs............lets see what happens

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 3:36 PM

charlie hebdo
Oddly enough, his post today was in a readable format with generally accepted grammar and syntax.

In MP's defense (we had a similar discussion off-line) part of the problem has been trying to post on a phone, where most methods of proper formatting, etc, seem to be an exercise in futility...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:33 PM

BaltACD
I don't want to take the effort to read gobledeegook from someone that won't take the time, and curtesey to convey their thoughts in the generally acceptable form.  Doing so says that they themselves have no respect for whatever ideas they are trying to convey.  Posting in a crap format you are telling your audience - this crap isn't worth reading.

Oddly enough, his post today was in a readable format with generally accepted grammar and syntax.   

My personal opinion is that people who write illegibly, especially if they actually are capable of standard written English, are saying they have no respect for readers.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 8:08 AM

Yes, Balt, when you and I were in school, teachers taught how to communicate clearly.

Johnny

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 7:45 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
 
zardoz
 
Cotton Belt MP104
I don't worry about english/grammer/spelling/punctuation 

Obviously. 

That comment goes a long way in explaining why his posts are unreadable.

I don't care what people say - just make it readable.

I get a number of the 'if you can read this you are a genius' posts on Facebook.  I can read the crap - but I don't WANT to.  I don't want to take the effort to read gobledeegook from someone that won't take the time, and curtesey to convey their thoughts in the generally acceptable form.  Doing so says that they themselves have no respect for whatever ideas they are trying to convey.  Posting in a crap format you are telling your audience - this crap isn't worth reading.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 6:59 AM

zardoz
 
Cotton Belt MP104
I don't worry about english/grammer/spelling/punctuation

 

Obviously.

That comment goes a long way in explaining why his posts are unreadable.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Kenosha, WI
  • 6,567 posts
Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 8:21 PM

Cotton Belt MP104
I don't worry about english/grammer/spelling/punctuation

Obviously.

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: Calgary AB. Canada
  • 2,298 posts
Posted by AgentKid on Saturday, June 23, 2018 8:01 PM

Randy Stahl
The RfE's have actual years of experience and most of the class one TMs have a degree in logistics. I guess thats the new way of doing things.

I heard indirectly that that was what was happening on CN during the EHH years.

He felt experienced people were too union friendly, and over time, post EHH, it turned out recent collage degree holders would prove to be unqualified to do the job.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 310 posts
Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 3:08 PM

charlie hebdo
 
Cotton Belt MP104
..i am a retired educator

 

As one myself, I am somewhat surprised by your writing style. Atypical, to say the least, but maybe it worked for you.

 

...........attention to all forum followers ......... I tried to go off thread and contact charlie on PM as i have done w/others .......that option was not there this time when the attempt was made ..............sorry those not interested in the personal chat charlie and i are having .............now: dude (charlie) i was a physics/chemistry high school teacher. ....... when questions came up about math (used so much in our work as physics/chemistry (notice the alphabet non congruent arrangement ......physics is my favorite, but close second is chemistry ........ya no fysics is fun !!!!!!) ....... to continue the former sentence not written properly as a literary person would ...........as i was saying........ problem solving, WE USE MATH, we just do it .......if ya wanna no how come algebra works that way, go down the hall to Mr. Walden, he teaches that stuff.  It is just a tool, for us guys.  By the way.... I DID NOT teach life science, i called it "live stuff",   we talked about "dead stuff" in our classroom ........no problemo, connecting the two though.......the Good Lord used that dead stuff (atoms/molecules) to make the live stuff work.   That's okay, in fact that is great. Praise the Lord  ........oh no, I broke one of Brian's forum rules, surely.   Well, long story..... even longer, I don't worry about english/grammer/spelling/punctuation.......i just tell my story, but make sure it is about Railroads.......otherwise w/o that word this post is negative..........

end of personal dialogue to the dude that calls himself charlie hebdo.........

where did that handle come from dude........regards mike

endmrw0623181505

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, June 23, 2018 1:13 PM

Cotton Belt MP104
..i am a retired educator

As one myself, I am somewhat surprised by your writing style. Atypical, to say the least, but maybe it worked for you.

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 310 posts
Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 11:07 AM

Deggesty

Well, Cotton Belt MP104, I have an idea of how you felt. I was taking care of the chemicals and cylinder gases inventories, making certain that we di not run out of anything necessary in our manufacturing process. One dy, my manager told me he wanted to make me a supervisor--and I declined, telling him that I did not have the personality necessary for that (Several years earlier, I had taken a course in supervising, and realized that such work was not for me). He did not press the matter,

I interacted directly with people in various other departments and with several suppliers--and I enjoyed my work.

 

..........get this....... a local industry wanted their supervisors to be better at their job.......okay an expert was called in to present a conference ....... attended by supers .........by the way we as teachers were invited to see an evening session .......it was a good presentation ........that is an aside.......the real kicker was the company decided to let some of the workers attend.   One of the workers related the following.  (for those of you that don't realize, ((who don't know THIS)) there are four distinctive personalities)  The concept of effective leadership is to know/realize ....... 1. what of the four, yourself ..........2. each and every person that you interact with, where do they fall .........3. if there has to be effective interaction ........4. REALIZE the personality (not person) you are dealing with..........5. common sense indicates there are certain places you avoid if that "trips the trigger" of that PERSONALITY.  .........but then ........that is NOT the end of the story ...........ready  ......... this friend of mine said ........we learned so much from the conference, we could work together so much better .......ready for this  ............ we did NOT need a manager ......... great but then that falls into the category of "unintended consequences" .......management just couldn't fire all the supervisors ........lol.......but then this was an exceptional case and not going to happen that often.......funny though and an example of effective oversight skill ........sorry one more teacher story .........it drove me nuts when a fellow teacher would say, "oh your are not as smart as your brother" ........... what? gimma break..........i would always TRY to "manage" a wrong answer given by a student ......intent to protect their integrety and deflect onto the correct answer.  Always i was intent on "getting the student to ask" ....... i had a trick that was even used on adults ...... anyone interested  ......... ask  ....... don't want to bore on forum with endless tales   ....... endmrw0623181105    p.s. Deggesty will PM about a supplier story, sure can relate to your experience  mrw

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, June 23, 2018 10:46 AM

Well, Cotton Belt MP104, I have an idea of how you felt. I was taking care of the chemicals and cylinder gases inventories, making certain that we di not run out of anything necessary in our manufacturing process. One day, my manager told me he wanted to make me a supervisor--and I declined, telling him that I did not have the personality necessary for that (Several years earlier, I had taken a course in supervising, and realized that such work was not for me). He did not press the matter,

I interacted directly with people in various other departments and with several suppliers--and I enjoyed my work.

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 310 posts
Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 10:22 AM

PJS1
 
zugmann
 jeffhergert Or a degree in English Literature. Jeff  

I've known managers that had years in the field that were completely useless as managers.  And managers that came fresh out of college with a non-railroad degree that were awesome managers. Generalizations and all that. 

 

The skills required to be an effective supervisor/manager are different than the skills to be a top performer in one's field.  The classical example is the organization that promotes its top sales person to sales manager, only to see her fail as a manager. 

 

..........oh, how so true..........i am a retired educator......as i would be in continuing education classes to maintain certification, i would have the comment made to me, "oh one of these days you will become a principal", nope not me.  i want no part of trying to corral adults, students were bad enough.  i will suffer the lack of pay for the contentment of interacting w/students and "see them thar minds expand"........it was like magic and made my life a wonderful life .......what was really an "explosion of awesomeness"...(we did lots of experiments/demonstrations) to reinforce what was in the books.  Okay said principle was taught ......proceed to demo ....... during the same demo a student actually uses his God given brain and suggests something to do that takes the principle EVEN further than i had been going ........AWESOME, both the students thinking (........ for sure they had the concept firmly learned) and the neat fact that the class can SEE,......... THIS STUFF IS FOR REAL, NOT JUST BOOK STUFF.  can ya tell i loved to teach? ...... miss it     just sayin'  endnmrw0623181019

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 310 posts
Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 10:08 AM

tree68
 
zugmann
I've known managers that had years in the field that were completely useless as managers. 

 

The Peter Principle Personified...

Of course, there's always the percussive sublimation (kicked upstairs) and the lateral arabesque (sounds like a promotion, but isn't...)

 

..........see here we go, this forum is such a jewel of wisdom/vocabulary expansion........the two terms above equals to Peter Principle......i will TRY to remember them as they are jewels to repeat .... BUT....... have a LITTE "ole timers" problem ......it takes two days and then when i am driving somewhere and NOT related to the loss of memory .....WALA..... it comes to me ...  what i could not remember the day B4..........i am positive, NO ONE ON THIS FORUM suffers the same......................on another note:  managers who are inexperienced are sometimes the best..........comes to mind the ditty: it's not your aptitude, but your attitude that determines your altitude ...........and too, there is the idea of a "praticipatory managment" verses "dictatoral"......i.e. in the National Guard as a ranking NCO, I "led" but when it came to explosives (was in Combat Engineers), i always let my subordinates tell me what we needed to do.  They knew far more than I.  My duty was to (hopefully) make the correct call between two different opinions that were offered.  Hey, we are ALL in this together, and by the way WHO knows it all.  It really astounds me when managers seem so paranoid and will not even HEAR OUT a subordiates suggesting something.........one more story:  asphalt highways have overlay on top of overlay over overlays  ......here comes lowboy w/high load .....smart driver does NOT depend on posting of clearance  .......yep just one inch too high ........driver, convoy crews, all sat scratching their heads  (.......anyone think they know where this story is going???????)  little tike rides up on bicycle and ..........suggests .........why don't ya let a little air outta da tires?  ........well gotta mention just ONE more story.......we in the National Guard transported dozers on lowboys.  No problem as we had a route annually traveled.  Then one year the dozers got air conditioning ....... installed on top of the cab......does that bring to mind......CLEARANCE........after one ......   "hu oooo oh" incident....... no problem in the future ..... as we convoyed ......drivers knew to take to the grass on the right when going under THAT overpass .......kinda like accepted "breaking ranks" in a formal march  .......i'm done now  ....... just sayin'   endmrw0623181002

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 8:57 AM

zugmann
 jeffhergert Or a degree in English Literature. Jeff  

I've known managers that had years in the field that were completely useless as managers.  And managers that came fresh out of college with a non-railroad degree that were awesome managers. Generalizations and all that. 

The skills required to be an effective supervisor/manager are different than the skills to be a top performer in one's field.  The classical example is the organization that promotes its top sales person to sales manager, only to see her fail as a manager. 

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, June 22, 2018 8:08 PM

zugmann
I've known managers that had years in the field that were completely useless as managers. 

The Peter Principle Personified...

Of course, there's always the percussive sublimation (kicked upstairs) and the lateral arabesque (sounds like a promotion, but isn't...)

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Friday, June 22, 2018 5:59 PM

jeffhergert
Or a degree in English Literature. Jeff

I've known managers that had years in the field that were completely useless as managers.  And managers that came fresh out of college with a non-railroad degree that were awesome managers.

 

Generalizations and all that.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, June 22, 2018 5:09 PM

Randy Stahl

The RfE's have actual years of experience and most of the class one TMs have a degree in logistics. I guess thats the new way of doing things. I think we need a stronger tougher FRA.

 

RSS

 

Or a degree in English Literature. 

Jeff

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Friday, June 22, 2018 3:49 PM

BaltACD
To the millenials way of thinking - experience is just a drag on progress. Millenials don't believe in history and thereby replicate the failures of the past. Those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it.

Millenials were still in grade school (or not even born) when this train of thought started.

 

There is a lot of crossing between the RFE and TM crafts (with my company at least).  If you hire as a RFE, there are only so many jobs avaliable (And fewer with each increased pay band), so many naturally go into the TM side of things.  I've had my recert rides done by the local TM (that used to be a RFE).  Not a huge deal, really.  The way RFE would be shifted around, most of them hardly knew their territory anyhow.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, June 22, 2018 10:47 AM

Randy Stahl
The RfE's have actual years of experience and most of the class one TMs have a degree in logistics. I guess thats the new way of doing things. I think we need a stronger tougher FRA.

RSS

To the millenials way of thinking - experience is just a drag on progress.  Millenials don't believe in history and thereby replicate the failures of the past.

Those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: roundhouse
  • 2,747 posts
Posted by Randy Stahl on Friday, June 22, 2018 9:13 AM

The RfE's have actual years of experience and most of the class one TMs have a degree in logistics. I guess thats the new way of doing things. I think we need a stronger tougher FRA.

 

RSS

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, June 22, 2018 8:02 AM

I would've thought you would have the RFEs take on the TM's duties and then let go the TMs.  In days of yore. one could read in the Pocket List of Railroad officials where one person in the backwater terminals of some railroads held both jobs.  

Jeff

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, June 22, 2018 7:18 AM

samfp1943
Why would a railroad do away with what would seem to be a critical function like the RFE?

1.  Those getting rid of the positions don't understand what they do.

2.  $$$$$

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, June 22, 2018 12:54 AM

   I am just curious as to the reasoning [other than the financial one] for a railroad management doing away with what would amount to first-line supervison by a designated Road Foreman of Engines?

   Before my retirement, I had a position in a Safety Management position with a Truck line. One of my jobs was to check ride with drivers, and critique their driving habits.  It was critical to make sure that driver abilities matched up to their 'records', and assured that they 'knew what they were doing'; before being turned out to drive our equipment.

   It seems that there would be a parallel in the railroad engineer fields, or also conductor job function.   A trained observer can learn a lot from just observing, and riding with someone who is doing a job.

        It would seem that a qualified RFE  would be able to observe, and critique another engineer over a track segment?   The qualified observer is not there to specifically provide a punitive review of an individual; unless there are specific reasons to suspect that the observed is not doing their job as they have been trained? 

  I understand that in some cases, over-zealous individuals, have turned their jobs into positions that have earned them derisive monikers like: 'wead weasel', etc.  To become more punitive than instructional, and somewhat more in the vein of a 'hall monitor'.  

Why would a railroad do away with what would seem to be a critical function like the RFE?

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:00 PM

jeffhergert
Simulators just don't have the same feel as the real thing.  Not just the occasional "kick in the pants," but just the feel of movement.  It seems like the "scenery" passing by out the "window" doesn't match the speed indicated on the simulator's speedometer.  It's like it's moving slower than it would in real life.

Scenery is another missing detail, although they've done better on ours over the years.  Of course they have the really important details, like crossings, signals and signs, etc.  What's missing is buildings and trees.  As I said, they are getting better.  The last time I was on one, they've started putting in those details, even if the placement of some is "wrong."  It may seem trivial, but on the simulator, you can see signals way before you could in real life.  Either the placement of buildings or the trees, especially the overgrowth of trees, blocks the view.

Simulators have there place, but nothing beats the real world.  I like Doug Riddell's story of how he was in the simulator and it kept saying he got a knuckle at a certain mile post.  The instructor said the simulator (and the track chart used to program it) showed there was a sag there.  Doug pointed out the track chart was for an abandoned pre-merger (SCL) parallel line and the one still in use had no sag there.

Jeff  

The Simulator design engineers need to get together with the iRacing people https://www.iracing.com/ .  They have laser surveying race tracks all over the World and have the actions and responses accurate for a wide variety of racing cars.  The actions are 'real' enough that Professional Drivers use the system when getting ready to compete at a track they have no experience on.  Additionally there are any number of 'racing leagues' where iRacing participants from all over the World compete against each other.  iRacing is not 'on track' racing but it is the next best thing.

Tracks get re-surveyed whenever a significant action is taken with the track surface - patches, repaving of segements or the entire track, even after winter frost heaves.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, June 21, 2018 9:38 PM

Simulators just don't have the same feel as the real thing.  Not just the occasional "kick in the pants," but just the feel of movement.  It seems like the "scenery" passing by out the "window" doesn't match the speed indicated on the simulator's speedometer.  It's like it's moving slower than it would in real life.

Scenery is another missing detail, although they've done better on ours over the years.  Of course they have the really important details, like crossings, signals and signs, etc.  What's missing is buildings and trees.  As I said, they are getting better.  The last time I was on one, they've started putting in those details, even if the placement of some is "wrong."  It may seem trivial, but on the simulator, you can see signals way before you could in real life.  Either the placement of buildings or the trees, especially the overgrowth of trees, blocks the view.

Simulators have there place, but nothing beats the real world.

I like Doug Riddell's story of how he was in the simulator and it kept saying he got a knuckle at a certain mile post.  The instructor said the simulator (and the track chart used to program it) showed there was a sag there.  Doug pointed out the track chart was for an abandoned pre-merger (SCL) parallel line and the one still in use had no sag there.

Jeff  

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy