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News Wire: Regulators ask Class I railroads to explain service issues

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 11:38 AM

Back when I was going through junior high and high school, "shop" was a regular part of the curriculum.  In junior high it was mostly wood shop, but included drafting - some of which skills I use to this day.  The girls had home economics (no Title IX in those days).

In high school, I think the moniker was "industrial arts," but did include auto shop, where the students actually worked on cars.

That was in MI.  I now live in NY, where for at least the past 40 years the teaching of trades has been the realm of the vocational/technical schools (vo-techs).  High school juniors and seniors have the option of spending half their school day at the vo-tech, where students can study everything from construction and architecture to hospitality and tourism.

 

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Posted by PJS1 on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 11:21 AM

charlie hebdo
  Though true in US for the most part, your remark is not true in the entire "Western world." 

Speaking for only my part of Texas, since it is the only place that I know a little it about, there numerous opportunities for young people to acquire technical skills training. 

When I was in school, many moons ago, we had a robust vocational education program.  I spent the last two years of high school studying drafting and design. technology.  Half a day was spent on the drafting boards, and the other half studying academic subjects.  

The programs that existed in the high schools when I was coming of age in the 50s are still around.  But the location has changed.  For the most part, at least in Texas, they have been moved to the community colleges and/or Texas State Technical College.  The programs that they offer help people develop the skills for really good jobs. 

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

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Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:52 AM

Germany has a very robust trades and apprenticeship program.. of course.. that does us little good over here. Good for them though. 

In part automation, or the anticipation thereof, is partly responsible. Kids who are choosing  careers now are listening to the "experts" about crewless trains and driverless trucks..and turning their attention to other industries. Maybe we're finding out how irreplaceable those supposedly replaceable people really are. 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 8:37 AM

BaltACD
In the Western world the 1st and 2nd tier countrys have done away with all the skilled 'labor' and the apprentice positions where newcomers learned the skills necessary to eventually become 'skilled' labot.

Though true in US for the most part, your remark is not true in the entire "Western world."

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 7:02 AM

jeffhergert
My initial trainman's training was 3 weeks classroom work. Then 6 months OJT.  Some where around the middle of OJT was another week of classroom work.

I had almost 6 years in before my turn came for engine service.  (There were some a few years before I hired out who finished conductor's training on a Friday and started engineer's training the following Monday.)  One week of class room work.  Then 6 months of OJT.  About half-way through another two weeks of class room work.

The trainmen's class room work was mostly rules.  The engineer's training the first week was basic mechanical and air brakes.  The mid-way class room was some simulator training and rules.  

Jeff

The fine edge that today's Class 1's have on their T&E manpower doesn't allow for 'long lead times' when additional T&E manpower is needed.

Back in the late 70's Chessie system 'lost sight' of the hiring/retirement stats for the Baltimore Division.  Within the span of a month or so, roughly 50% of the Engineers on the division retired - they had all hired out immediately post WW II and all retired in the same time frame.  The immediate 'fix' was to bring virtually all of the Road Foreman of Engines from across the system to Baltimore to operate the various Yard Jobs (at the time there were close to 60) thus freeing up a large number of Engineers that had road experience to be forced on the road to keep things moving while a Engineer Training program was established and staffed with both students and instructors - on a hurry up basis.  Over the following year the RFE's were released to go back to their home territories as graduates of the training program assumed their turns.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 1:01 AM

My initial trainman's training was 3 weeks classroom work. Then 6 months OJT.  Some where around the middle of OJT was another week of classroom work.

I had almost 6 years in before my turn came for engine service.  (There were some a few years before I hired out who finished conductor's training on a Friday and started engineer's training the following Monday.)  One week of class room work.  Then 6 months of OJT.  About half-way through another two weeks of class room work.

The trainmen's class room work was mostly rules.  The engineer's training the first week was basic mechanical and air brakes.  The mid-way class room was some simulator training and rules.  

Jeff

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 6:40 PM

21st Century 'industry' in the Western world is all about outsourcing any operation that actually requires 'manufacture' of parts or systems to 3rd & 4th World locations where 'employees' are paid in pennys and not very many of them.

In the Western world the 1st and 2nd tier countrys have done away with all the skilled 'labor' and the apprentice positions where newcomers learned the skills necessary to eventually become 'skilled' labot.  In the railroad industry, a person would hire out as a Fireman, after working that position for a number of years they learned by osmosis to be in a position to accept the promotion to Locomotive Engineer with a wealth of OJT learning under their belt to be able to accept the responsibility.  Nowadays, a person is hired off the street, put through 6-8 weeks of 'classroom instruction' with a limited amount of hands on demonstrations and then sent to the field to begin their OJT training to become a 'Conductor'.  The OJT phase is nominally about two months.  A year (or less) after being promoted to 'Conductor', the person is then headed to Engineer's School where the basics of locomotive operation, air brake operation, train handling etc. is taught for 2 to 3 months, then it is back out to the field for their OJT as a locomotive engineer.  All told you are looking at someone going from off the street to operating a 20K ton train all in about a year and a half.  Real experience for all the challenges of operating that 20K ton train safely under all kinds of conditions.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 6:14 PM

Shadow the Cats owner
It is a 3 fold problem.  1st off kids nowadays think working with your hands is dirty and nasty and almost beneath them.  Yet there are jobs that pay higher that require that kind of work than being a college graduate.  2nd the schools of today try and get all kids ready for college.  Not going to happen there are some kids that college is not an option for and since trades are not taught in schools anymore they are left out on what they can do for a job.  3.  The push to automate so many jobs has cost us so many more jobs.  Gone are the machinsts the mechanics the people that built things.  Yet those are the jobs in highest demand why things break and need repairs.  Around here a good machinst can make 30 an hour even if he is not CNC qualified why the need to be able to make parts is huge.

Mechanics these days are not really mechanics - they are parts replacers.  Machine spit out an error code which will identify the area of the 'failure', the 'mechanic' has been trained when X code happens the repair is replace JJ part - without understanding what X code is really identifying and why JJ part needs to be replaced rather than 'repaired.

The JJ part is a framismaximus at $600 a pop and it failed because a 2 cent E-clip broke.  Let's install a new framismaximus rather than diagnose the existing framismaximus and replace the broken E-clip.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 3:17 PM

It is a 3 fold problem.  1st off kids nowadays think working with your hands is dirty and nasty and almost beneath them.  Yet there are jobs that pay higher that require that kind of work than being a college graduate.  2nd the schools of today try and get all kids ready for college.  Not going to happen there are some kids that college is not an option for and since trades are not taught in schools anymore they are left out on what they can do for a job.  3.  The push to automate so many jobs has cost us so many more jobs.  Gone are the machinsts the mechanics the people that built things.  Yet those are the jobs in highest demand why things break and need repairs.  Around here a good machinst can make 30 an hour even if he is not CNC qualified why the need to be able to make parts is huge.

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 2:59 PM

We're all flooded by volume with no capacity available. With all this talk of automation and crewless this and driverless that, the crux of the problem, ironically, is 1) lack of manpower, 2) lack of resources to meet the current demand. But mostly its lack of people. Both CN and CP have contacted me recently about career opportunities with their organizations (that's how desperate they are!).. If I were 20 something again I'd jump at it.. Sure is a change from 1982 when I was told that my chances were slim to none and that slim had already left town.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 1:59 PM

blue streak 1

Could it be a pursuit of the almighty OR ( operating ratio ) instead of maximum profit per share of stock ?

Whatever puts the most money in the investor's pockets the fastest...

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 12:41 PM

Could it be a pursuit of the almighty OR ( operating ratio ) instead of maximum profit per share of stock ?

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Posted by Brian Schmidt on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:08 AM

WASHINGTON — Federal regulators are becoming increasingly concerned about the widespread deterioration in railroad service metrics amid complaints from shipper groups, who say the industry is mired in a slowdown that is delaying shipments of go...

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/03/20-federal-regulators-ask-class-i-railroads-to-explain-service-issues-amid-network-slowdown

Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine

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