daveklepper my prayers on your behalf might just possibly be even more effective if...
You really believe that an omnipotent couldn't figure out what you intended the first time around?
Hey bro, I like your posts and that wonderfully morbid picture you post, but you don't have to be snarky.
If you don't like what David and some of the other posters have stated with heartfelt sincerity you don't have to read their words.
No insult intended, just sayin'.
I'd tell Ed I was praying for him too but my track record's not so good, everytime I prayed for something the answer was "No." Ed's in enough trouble as it is without me adding to it!
Yeah...don't take the bait guys and stay away from it.
Firelock76Hey bro, I like your posts and that wonderfully morbid picture you post, but you don't have to be snarky.
Some people just don't have an off switch.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Firelock76you don't have to read their words.
It was very thoughtful for you to give me that option, but my question is the product of heartfelt sincerity as well. Hope you will understand.
zugmannSome people just don't
I guess that if there are topics that some people are uncomfortable discussing, then perhaps the BEST way to avoid that... might be to never bring it up in the first place?
Convicted One daveklepper my prayers on your behalf might just possibly be even more effective if... You really believe that an omnipotent couldn't figure out what you intended the first time around?
I accept the sincerity of your question and do not feel any antagonism.
Of course. But my using the same form as others praying in a congregation with me effectively add their prayers to mine and mine to theirs. That is the reason for using the common form.
Anyone with a belief in the Eternal can pray by himself or herself. But the idea of congregations is that then the whole community takes on the responsibility, not just the individual.
If you enjoy singing or playing a musical instrument, don't you enjoy it more when you have listeners? Or sing or play the instrument in group? Or have both?
Hope the moderator doesn't remove this for being religious, but I think the Eternal created Humankind because the Eternal was lonely.
Let's call it Philosophy and not religion.
Convicted One Firelock76 you don't have to read their words. It was very thoughtful for you to give me that option, but my question is the product of heartfelt sincerity as well. Hope you will understand.
Firelock76 you don't have to read their words.
Oh, I understand perfectly, I'd just ask you to be a little circumspect in how you phrase your questions.
However, David didn't take any offense so neither will I. David's a class act, a scholar, and a gentleman of the old school. We'd all do well to emulate him.
Firelock76 Convicted One Firelock76 you don't have to read their words. It was very thoughtful for you to give me that option, but my question is the product of heartfelt sincerity as well. Hope you will understand. Oh, I understand perfectly, I'd just ask you to be a little circumspect in how you phrase your questions. However, David didn't take any offense so neither will I. David's a class act, a scholar, and a gentleman of the old school. We'd all do well to emulate him.
To what everyone has said, Well Said! This particular Thread has been a well-handled topic, and a discussion amongst a diverse group of individuals, who have come together in a reasonable discussion to comfort one whom we have all come to respect, and thus are concerned for his health, and to forward our diverse prayers for his recovery.
As we have all dealt with the 'sticky note' on top of the Thread; personally, I am really proud to be a part of a group that can handle a serious discussion; such as this one is. To handle it as a serious topic should be: our attempts to comfort in whatever way we can, a trying situation, being faced by someone we have learned to respect.
Get Well, Soon Ed, God Bless!
OOO-RAH!
Firelock76 God bless you Ed and God speed your recovery! "Fly on, and fight on, until the last drop of fuel, until the last drop of blood, until the last beat of the heart." (Manfred von Richthofen)
God bless you Ed and God speed your recovery!
"Fly on, and fight on, until the last drop of fuel, until the last drop of blood, until the last beat of the heart."
(Manfred von Richthofen)
Being that Ed has discovered where the new Dreadnaught spaceships are being built, I'm guessing he will fly faster and farther that any of us can imagine.
Firelock76'd just ask you to be a little circumspect in how you phrase your questions
Here's the thing. This message board has a prohibition on posting religious content. I don't advance my religious preferences on this board both out of respect to Kalmbach's request, AS WELL AS OUT OF RESPECT TO THOSE MEMBERS WHO LIKELY FEEL DIFFERENTLY THAN I DO.
I don't feel that those members here who have posted their intent to pray are showing the same respect in return, it's really that simple.
The first few times through, I just bit my lip, and thought "oh, it's their way of feeling like they are trying to do something for him, so let it ride"
BUT ONE MEMBER IN PARTICULAR, who we can tell from his other posts is intelligent, so he knows the rules and should know better, twice now has gone beyond mere sympathy, and expanded into the realm of religious debate (one form of prayer being superior to another, as well as claiming to have proof as to the effectiveness of prayer). Because this member is intelligent, one can only assume this is no accident, and that he is wittingly trying to move the needle over toward his preferred expectation of what should be allowed here. I understand that he participates in some formal structured religious program, so his outlook is significantly different than mine. That's fine, but I really think this is not the appropriate place for him to celebrate his faith. Especially in consideration of the publisher's stated preference to not have religious posts included on their board.
Is that plain, objective, and to the point enough for you?
Let me include an analogy to illustrate why I feel the way I do. Political content is likewise prohibited here. If I say "Today is election day, I've got to go out and vote"...that's really not political commentary. If However I start to elaborate on how voting one way might be more advantageous than another, I think you would agree that I've crossed the line, and have entered into the realm of political debate.
I'm really sorry that I didn't bring this up earlier when were were "praying" for John McCain in that other thread, so it wouldn't have to happen here. But tolerance is a funny thing. You try to have it until you discover that from other peoples' perspective, there may be no end in sight.
I am sorry, but you are the one who is discussing religion, not me. This Forum talkes about prayer. Because it discusses chapel cars, the role of Chaplains in military railroads, the attachment of specific railroaders to their church as part of their biographies, and much else. This is not religious discussion, any more than saying that soldiers in foxholes pray.
What the moderator clearly means is banning discussion of religous views. And I respect that position and do not discuss my theology, my evaluation of other's theology, why I respect other's, theology, why this respect is consistant with my own theology, or any content of the prayers. I had simply asked Ed for the name of his mother so I could mesh my prayers with those praying with me. This is not religious theology, simply my wish to be as effective as possible in helping Ed, by getting the cooperation of those around me.
YOU started the religious discussion by questioning the basis of my question. I venured to asnwer you in good faith while steering entirely away from theology and the theological reasons for the particular form of prayer that I adopt when praying with those around. I stayed completely from that subject. And I could say that if a local Holy Land Christian church were to ask me to attend services so I could give them acoustical advice, I would pray for Ed's health in that church as well, and try within the limits of my own theology, to conform to their form of prayer. This isn't religion per se, it is helping one's freinds as much as one can. You help in your way and I will help in mine. Can we please end this discussion now! Anything more and it is proof that you are simply using other's willingness to help, including helping you with your abilitiy to uin understand, to attack people who are trying to help.
But maybe I should apologize for giving a tentative answer to a problem that has troubled philosophers for years. Possibly that is what really annoyed you, and you consider it religion. I don't because secular philosophers have also discussed this problem. I consider it philosophy. But if it annoys you, I will steer clear of that topic in the future.
Dave,
Thank you for that explation.
While the word 'praying' may be offensive to some I see it simply as a wish for the best possible outcome from the possibly dire circumstances Ed is faced with. It depends on personal viewpoints and whether one agrees or not should not be taken as espousing any particular faith or lack thereof. We have become far to sensitive to the posted word and the beliefs of others. We all want the best for Ed. Let's us just leave it at that and disregard posts that criticize those of us who want to offer our blessings in the best way we can.
Norm
daveklepper But if it annoys you, I will steer clear of that topic in the future.
I believe the prevailing logic would center upon ~was it possible for you express your sympathy and concern without resorting to prohibited (religious) subject matter?~ I believe the prohibition is in effect because different people have strong feelings in different ways on the matter.
Discussion of prayer is in fact discussion of religion, there's really no way you can contort the matter to deny that. Had you meticulously observed the prohibition against such discussion on this board, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Let me assure you that in no way am I angry with you over any of this. I just happen to feel when something is prohibited for all, then exceptions need not be carved out by some simply because they subjectively believe they are "fighting the good fight" .
And of course everyone took the bait.
Ed,
I've been away from the forums for a while and this is not what I wanted see. I will add my prayers for you to the others already offered.
There are people who must have the last word in every discussion, and "not taking the bait" gives them that privilege. I don't believe that our eforts to be helpful to Ed have in any way violated any ban. Just as discussion of a particular senator's or congressman's or President's statement or actions on long-distance passenger service does not violate the ban on discussion of politics. I think that many of the readers might find relevant to this discussion and even to helping Ed my article:
David, I promise you that from now on when someone asks me a question such as
"Do you believe.." which started the whole mess, I will simply reply:
Yout question is not relevant to the topic and can be addressed to me privately at daveklepper@yahoo.com where I will give you a complete answer.
This will my standard answer, if the it is an attack.
I hope this meets your requirements. Meanwhile, at age 85 I do need the edit button.
"I promise ... that from now on when someone asks me a question such as "Do you believe.." which started the whole mess, I will simply reply: Your question is not relevant to the topic and can be addressed to me privately at [e-mail removed] where I will give you a complete answer."
Or alternatively, do what previous mods have advised. Just say "this is becoming a violation of the Kalmbach TOS" and to have them send a PM via the site instead to continue the 'conversation'. That's the same procedure to follow when one poster gets upset about a perceived personal or ad hominem comment -- a bit like 'taking it outside' but more civilized. It also serves to keep private, personal e-mail addresses off the Web.
Of course, you'd have to have the PM conversation function 'enabled' in your Profile/Settings, but I think if you want privacy from e-mailings it's still better to have PMs through the site, where it is relatively easy to ignore any you don't care to answer, than to an outside 'address of record'.
If I might make a suggestion: this specific angle of discussion doesn't belong in an Ed Blysard thread, and in fact really belongs on the other 'Trains.com' Web site, the one that deals with Kalmbach internet sites and their details. Perhaps a mod can cut the relevant material out of this thread and post it in a new one 'over there', and this one can get back to its full higher purpose.
David,
I think you have addressed the situation with both professionalism and an open mind. I'm certain no one meant to offend but both religious and cultural differences came to the forefront. Bound to happen in any conversation.
I ame sure we can keep this thread on track. It was meant to wish Ed well and regardless of religious thinking we all want the very best for him.
With respect,
Norm48327I am sure we can keep this thread on track. It was meant to wish Ed well and regardless of religious thinking we all want the very best for him.
Well said. And as someone used as a sign-off on a radio show, "Keep on keeping on" ED.
We do hope to hear soon of improvement in your condition. All of are hoping and many are "doing all that they can."
Mookie, any news about Ed's condition?
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edblysard Well, Right now I have radiation treatments that leave me a little nauseas and with a headache, but steroids seems to cut that back some. Waiting to see if chemo is once again on the menu!
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
edblysardWell, Right now I have radiation treatments that leave me a little nauseas and with a headache, but steroids seems to cut that back some. Waiting to see if chemo is once again on the menu!
Having been through Radiation with my Colon Cancer 21 years ago - its effects are cumulative. It feels like a walk in the park when you start - at the end of the six weeks of treatment I felt like I could actuall feel the beam burning me. Fortunately the target area wasn't my head.
May the treatments do what they are supposed to do!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Murphy Sidinghose steroids will show up in your system for years and will probably keep you out of the Olympics.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
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