Paul of CovingtonAll this talk about the word "boy"-- I never associated it with race. Back in those years shoe-shine boys frequently were actually boys of any race, as were newspaper boys and delivery boys.
I agree with you, but there are individuals who, since they are aware that the term has been used with disparaging and derogatory intent, will insist that any use of the term must be considered in that light.
Victimology breeds strange bedfellows.
At the beginning of my last year of teaching, as we went around the room saying something about ourselves by means of an introduction & ice breaker, I found out I had a serious, budding clarinetist in my class. Who did he like better, I asked, Benny Goodman or Artie Shaw? He didn't know of either.
The following day I brought in my Artie Shaw CD's and one or two of Goodman. When he returned them a few days later his face had delight written all over it; he especially enjoyed Artie Shaw. He said he didn't think anyone could possibly play such high notes! I didn't think much more about it.
At the end of the year, I asked the students what they thought they'd remember best from our time together. I got the expected, happy answers from most. But I think one of the highest compilments I've ever had was when this clarinetist said, "I'll always remember that this was the class where I discovered Artie Shaw."
Since then he's gone on to play clarinet and saxophone in college and professionally.
Firelock, I completely agree with your contention that in order to really get into the zeitgeist of a period it is incredibly helpful to know the music. Also, about your notion that we Boomers have a World War II envy: I think you're really onto something there. I think we lived to see all that wartime unity disipate over the decades. Indeed, I never, ever thought I'd live to see Nazi flags proudly paraded in the streets of our cities! What would our fathers have thought?
The best music of the Big Band era, what's often been termed the Great American Songbook, will hold up well as the decades pass because it's musically superior in so many ways to what came before and after it.
Here's a link to a great Artie Shaw performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMEYzLaGVWM
Firelock76 wrote the following post 15 hours ago[in part]:
BOTH my hands are up!
"...I should add that like NKP Guy I too was exposed to swing music at an early age, around 10 or so. My parents had purchased an RCA LP (good old vinyl!) that featured Glenn Miller's "Chattanooga Choo-Choo," Artie Shaw's "Frenesi," a very young Frank Sinatra singing Cole Porter's "Night and Day," plus others. I was fascinated by what I heard, and later on as a student of history, especially the World War Two years, I felt you really couldn't understand the era without listening to the music. .."
I, as well, grew up with the WWII and post WWII era's music in our house. Swing and Big Bands records were always around: The Dorsey's, Duke Ellington, Cab Calloway, Bennie Godman, Artie Shaw, to name just a few that pop into memory.
And, I may possibly be mistaken, but I think, that when Glenn Miller formed his large wartime, Air Force band; it was about 50 or so(?). It was the first of the large military bands, to be so formed(?).
All this talk about the word "boy"-- I never associated it with race. Back in those years shoe-shine boys frequently were actually boys of any race, as were newspaper boys and delivery boys. Remember when many small grocery stores used to have groceries delivered by boys on bicycles?
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
NKP guyMay I see a show of hands from those who wish they could for a little while revisit those days and those hotels to hear these two great bands once again?
We've been lucky here with a local band that does swing. My daughter's high school band teacher was part of it, and that type of music found its way into the high school band's repetoire.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I should add that like NKP Guy I too was exposed to swing music at an early age, around 10 or so. My parents had purchased an RCA LP (good old vinyl!) that featured Glenn Miller's "Chattanooga Choo-Choo," Artie Shaw's "Frenesi," a very young Frank Sinatra singing Cole Porter's "Night and Day," plus others. I was fascinated by what I heard, and later on as a student of history, especially the World War Two years, I felt you really couldn't understand the era without listening to the music.
When I was in college in the early 70's I bought a two disc set of Glenn Miller and the Army Air Force Band, and the guys I shared an apartment with all loved it. We always played it during the partys we had, and everyone loved it!
Allow me a personal observation: I've always believed that the generation I grew up with had a certain degree of World War Two envy, as insane and illogical as that sounds. We looked back at our parents time and saw a cause you could believe in, leaders you could trust, (giants really did walk the Earth in those days) villains you just knew were villains, the clothes, the cars, the music, the movies, the steam locomotives, (!) the great planes, you name it. What did we have? All around, it just didn't compare. Liberal or conservative, we listened to that music and all had the same look on our faces.
Crazy, I know. Or maybe others feel the same way I did without realizing it?
Because my mother (b. 1920) loved Glenn Miller and played his music on Saturday mornings as she was cleaning our house in the 1950's, I grew up knowing his recordings and and the lyrics by heart; this turned out to be a gift from her, as his music and that of the Big Band era has been enriching my life for over 60 years now. From the moment I heard "Chattanooga Choo Choo" I was hooked! I could hear and feel the motion of a train as the song played. I always assumed Track 29 was at Pennsylvania Station; if the station in actuality had fewer than that number of tracks, who cares? As someone said, it fits the lyric.
As far as "boy" in the lyrics, singers today don't use that term or need to. They can substitute "hey" or "say" or something else innocuous. The word is not vital to the spirit of the song. This is not being "politically correct," it is simply being aware and sensitive to the feelings of others, knowing that the original word could possibly cause offense; and why would any singer want to do that?
Somewhere I read that when the Miller band learned they were going to record "Chattanooga Choo Choo" they cringed; most of them thought it was, well, silly. But the great success of the record convinced them otherwise. By the way, the Hotel Pennsylvania in NYC still has PEnnsylvania-6-5000 as its phone number. But trust me, this is a hotel you never want to stay at. Ever.
Glenn Miller and his Orchestra appeared at the Hotel Pennsylvania on 7th Avenue about the same time the Dorseys were the house band at the New Yorker Hotel, just on the other side of Pennsylvania Station on 8th Avenue, a hotel that even today is a fine hotel.
May I see a show of hands from those who wish they could for a little while revisit those days and those hotels to hear these two great bands once again?
"Chattanooga Choo Choo" played a small but distinct part in the earliest days of my burgeoning interest in trains. When the day finally comes that I am on my bed, about to take my "final ride," may the "Chattanooga Choo Choo" once again come to choo-choo me "home."
In the end, I suspect that "Chatanooga Choo Choo" is not a song about a single train, but a composite, with many "licenses" taken for rhyming, timing, etc. Any direct references are likely pure coincidence...
CSSHEGEWISCH I've heard that Glenn Miller's "Chattanooga Choo-Choo" refers to the "Tennesseean", which was a prewar streamliner, pulled by a DL109/DL110 set, no less.
I've heard that Glenn Miller's "Chattanooga Choo-Choo" refers to the "Tennesseean", which was a prewar streamliner, pulled by a DL109/DL110 set, no less.
The September, 1941, TT has a picture of engine 2900, and not a DL-109 on the head end. Other pictures show the then current power of the Southerner, the Crescent, and the Ponce de Leon--all EMD power--on Southern rails.
There are also pictures of the ten hostesses Southern employed at the time; four were from cities on the route of this train.
Johnny
Dakguy201 CandOforprogress2 Track 29? What station on that route would be so huge to have a track 29? Cincy nion maybe? From another portion of the song, it is Penn Station in New York that is the station. Penn's current track numbers end in the low 20's, and I doubt they have ever had a track 29. However, the "29" is needed for the rhyme scheme.
CandOforprogress2 Track 29? What station on that route would be so huge to have a track 29? Cincy nion maybe?
Track 29? What station on that route would be so huge to have a track 29? Cincy nion maybe?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
AND right across the street from Pennsylvania Station was the Pennsylvania Hotel!
It's phone number? "Pennsylvania 6-5000," of course!
Hey, as long as we're doin' the swing thing, how about a subway ride?
(That UP streamliner in the opening nothwithstanding.)
"Take The 'A' Train," with the great Duke Ellington and his orchestra!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb2w2m1JmCY
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The extent that this era of music has been marginalized in popular culture, makes it highly unlikely that the PC police would identify this particular song, much less the lyrics within it.
Their thinking doesn't go beyond easy targets. After all, Turner Classic Movies, airs hours of political incorrectness on a daily basis with it's films of 1930's to 50's vintage, and no one's howling to have the channel removed. The reason being is that the viewing demographic doesn't include a sufficient amount of PC activists that take notice or care.
Thanks, Johnny! Forget the Pelican. Remember the Birmingham Special.
https://books.google.com/books?id=lsTuCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT87&dq=%22tune+chattanooga+choo-choo%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqn-___5HWAhVFPxoKHTUUDqkQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=%22tune%20chattanooga%20choo-choo%22&f=false
http://hswv.pastperfectonline.com/photo/3B360FE5-2138-4076-93B3-439854171382
wanswheel https://www.chicagorailfan.com/stbccha.html https://www.songhall.org/profile/Harry_Warren https://www.songhall.org/profile/Mack_Gordon
https://www.chicagorailfan.com/stbccha.html
https://www.songhall.org/profile/Harry_Warren
https://www.songhall.org/profile/Mack_Gordon
The schedule of the Birmingham Special was the closest to that which is represented in the song--though that train, of course could not provide "ham and eggs in Carolina" as it went through Bristol--and entered Tennessee in downtown Bristol in the early, early, early morning.
I have also enjoyed the song.
wanswheel It was just a song. The Pelican avoided Carolina, I think.
It was just a song. The Pelican avoided Carolina, I think.
Just a little artistic license I suppose.
Thanks Wanswheel! I always wondered what the real "Chattanooga Choo-Choo" was.
Thanks Sam and Miningman!
I'll tell you, I don't know how the country could have won World War Two without swing music, in it's own way just a powerful a weapon as the P-51 Mustang, the F4U Corsair, the 105 howitzer, and the M-1 rifle.
And since I'm sure Major Miller wouldn't want us to leave him in a downbeat mood, here he is performing the greatest swing number ever, Lady Firestorm's favorite...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXwkWVEIIw
PS: Yep, that hot blonde is the Olympic gold medal skater Sonia Henie!
Norm48327 cat992c Some very famous music was missed out.Make that totally ignored.That was songs about trains.2 songs that were totally included the greatest song ever written on trains called Chattanooga Choo Choo by Glenn Miller.When it hit #1 in December 1941 it was the first record to sell over 1 million copies in 15 years.This is from the movie Sun Valley Serenade where Tex Beneke & THe Modernaires do it right in the movie.More importantly it was the #1 song across America on December 7,1941.Another song that totally ignored in this issue is The Atcheson,Topeka & Santa Fe by the great Johnny Mercer.Why were these 2 wonderful songs totally ignored???????????? I would suspect it was excluded in the interests of political correctness. Can't publish anything that might offend someone in this day and age.
cat992c Some very famous music was missed out.Make that totally ignored.That was songs about trains.2 songs that were totally included the greatest song ever written on trains called Chattanooga Choo Choo by Glenn Miller.When it hit #1 in December 1941 it was the first record to sell over 1 million copies in 15 years.This is from the movie Sun Valley Serenade where Tex Beneke & THe Modernaires do it right in the movie.More importantly it was the #1 song across America on December 7,1941.Another song that totally ignored in this issue is The Atcheson,Topeka & Santa Fe by the great Johnny Mercer.Why were these 2 wonderful songs totally ignored????????????
Some very famous music was missed out.Make that totally ignored.That was songs about trains.2 songs that were totally included the greatest song ever written on trains called Chattanooga Choo Choo by Glenn Miller.When it hit #1 in December 1941 it was the first record to sell over 1 million copies in 15 years.This is from the movie Sun Valley Serenade where Tex Beneke & THe Modernaires do it right in the movie.More importantly it was the #1 song across America on December 7,1941.Another song that totally ignored in this issue is The Atcheson,Topeka & Santa Fe by the great Johnny Mercer.Why were these 2 wonderful songs totally ignored????????????
I would suspect it was excluded in the interests of political correctness. Can't publish anything that might offend someone in this day and age.
I would add a BIG "AMEN" to Norm's (Norm 48327) comment, and to some other's,as well! Speaking as someone who grew up in the South, and has spent a lot of time over the years in other parts of this nation.
Any number of Posters here are certainly entitled to, or earned the rights to be called 'seasoned citizens'. The current wave of Political Correctness is not only robbing us of our HISTORY, but of the very things that have shaped our American Society. WE seem to be caught in the hands of a vocal minority who is attempting to control the majority through the tyrany of the minority.
I have long hoped we could grow past the failures of our social structures that existed while we were young, and would grow, and get past the 'sins' of our past. Understand the transgressions of our social past, understand that we can grow beyond them; but as it is often stated,[paraphrased] "....Those that forget. or ignore their past, are doomed to repeat it..."
Just my thoughts.
P.S. As Firelock76, said Glenn Miller was an American Institution, and a man of his times, who lost his life while in the service of our Nation. His music inspired and up lifted us in a time of war, and before.
Great post Firelock76!!!
As a certified bonified Canuklehead I cannot say "boy" is offensive...in the video he is talking to his pals all of whom are white boys. It's only the jerks that use it in a nasty way And likely only in certain areas of the country. Geez, will this stuff ever end?
I don't know about the "PC" thing, I think some may be reading more into this than it really deserves.
Anyway, here's the definative version of "Chattanooga Choo-Choo" from the 1941 film "Sun Valley Serenade." It's the Glenn Miller Orchestra at the height of it's power, plus a dance number by the incredible Nicholas Brothers.
Major Glenn Miller, USAAF. Rest in peace sir!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGBwmLRNLJ4
And for another angle, there's this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZLPJuy9oyQ
One last thing, for some fun you may want to slide over to the "Classic Toy Trains" site and check the blog "Train Songs, Readers Picks." Some good ones there, and Bob Keller and Rene Schweitzer did a good job compiling them.
wanswheel Late last night I posted items to this thread, specifically the RCA recording on Youtube, a page from Billboard magazine showing the song No. 1 on the charts in all regions of the country, an ad for the movie, and several photos of the great Glen Miller. All deleted. It was a good post, nothing offensive. Except in the song, Tex asks, "Pardon me boy, is that the Chattanooga Choo Choo?" and the Modernaires answer, "Yes, yes. Track twenty-nine!" and Tex says, "Boy, you can give me a shine."
Late last night I posted items to this thread, specifically the RCA recording on Youtube, a page from Billboard magazine showing the song No. 1 on the charts in all regions of the country, an ad for the movie, and several photos of the great Glen Miller. All deleted. It was a good post, nothing offensive. Except in the song, Tex asks, "Pardon me boy, is that the Chattanooga Choo Choo?" and the Modernaires answer, "Yes, yes. Track twenty-nine!" and Tex says, "Boy, you can give me a shine."
Those of us old enough to know that back in the forties and early fifties know the phrases "Pardon me boy" and "Can you give me a shine" were both common and deragatory to those of a certain ethnicity. While I won't defend their use today they were common back then. It's a part of history we should not forget nor should we be proud of. We shouldn't try to erase or rewrite history.
Norm
Norm48327I agree with you and others to a point. However, in today's lexicon PC is the word. It is not considered nice to offend anyone and even back in the forties calling a black man 'Boy' was considered offensive. They should have been treated with respect then as they should be now. That was then. It was a different time in our history but it should not be forgotten. What was OK then may not be today.
I think the constant crying/whining about "PC" is worse than the actual "PC" anymore.
An article on railroading and music just screams to me they are hitting the bottom of the creative barrel. Probably end up with top-10 facebook-esqe clickbait lists next.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Track 29? What station on that route would be so huge to have a track 29? Cincy Union maybe?
Late last night I posted items to this thread, specifically the RCA recording on Youtube, a page from Billboard magazine showing the song No. 1 on the charts in all regions of the country, an ad for the movie, and several photos of the great Glenn Miller. All deleted. It was a good post, nothing offensive. Except in the song, Tex asks, "Pardon me boy, is that the Chattanooga Choo Choo?" and the Modernaires answer, "Yes, yes. Track twenty-nine!" and Tex says, "Boy, you can give me a shine."
CSSHEGEWISCHcat992c Some very famous music was missed out.Make that totally ignored.That was songs about trains.2 songs that were totally included the greatest song ever written on trains called Chattanooga Choo Choo by Glenn Miller.When it hit #1 in December 1941 it was the first record to sell over 1 million copies in 15 years.This is from the movie Sun Valley Serenade where Tex Beneke & THe Modernaires do it right in the movie.More importantly it was the #1 song across America on December 7,1941.Another song that totally ignored in this issue is The Atcheson,Topeka & Santa Fe by the great Johnny Mercer.Why were these 2 wonderful songs totally ignored???????????? Probably because you have to draw the line somewhere. No so-called "political correctness" involved, just the personal decision of the writer.
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