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News Wire: SMART labor union says unsafe conditions at CSX led to severe injury

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 28, 2017 1:35 PM

Euclid
 
tree68
 
Euclid
I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice.  That is a true statement.  

Yeah - And I saw a nuclear explosion first-hand once - so I'm qualified to speak with authority on nuclear physics.

Just once, Bucky, answer the danged question.

Otherwise you're just a poser who wants people to think they're an expert. 

Whether or not I am an expert has nothing to do with the points I have made here.  I have posed some very clearly stated questions, and the hostile reaction and utter refusal to address those questions is obviously to discredit my questions almost as if I am questioning a religious authority, and that alone is not permitted.  It is a childish reaction. 

Here is another honest and fair question for all of you who kick cars:

From the union letter:

“These leads involve an uphill movement where the engineers must get the engines up to 7 or 8 throttle to move up the hill and by the time the cut is rolling and the slack is running out, the trainman pulling the pins is basically running around 6 or 7 miles per hour sometimes. It has been nearly impossible to pull the pins at a walking speed per the rules due to the terrain.

What is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph? 

If you don't know the answer to your question you have NEVER been involved in the process of kicking cars in switching operations, despite any statements you make to the contrary.  If you had been involved in kicking cars you would know the answer.  

You posts indicate you are the worst kind of internet troll - 'The Expert' that knows nothing.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, August 28, 2017 1:26 PM

tree68
 
Euclid
I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice.  That is a true statement. 

 

Yeah - And I saw a nuclear explosion first-hand once - so I'm qualified to speak with authority on nuclear physics.

Just once, Bucky, answer the danged question.

Otherwise you're just a poser who wants people to think they're an expert.

 

Whether or not I am an expert has nothing to do with the points I have made here.  I have posed some very clearly stated questions, and the hostile reaction and utter refusal to address those questions is obviously to discredit my questions almost as if I am questioning a religious authority, and that alone is not permitted.  It is a childish reaction. 

Here is another honest and fair question for all of you who kick cars:

From the union letter:

“These leads involve an uphill movement where the engineers must get the engines up to 7 or 8 throttle to move up the hill and by the time the cut is rolling and the slack is running out, the trainman pulling the pins is basically running around 6 or 7 miles per hour sometimes. It has been nearly impossible to pull the pins at a walking speed per the rules due to the terrain.

What is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph? 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, August 28, 2017 1:08 PM

Euclid
I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice.  That is a true statement. 

Yeah - And I saw a nuclear explosion first-hand once - so I'm qualified to speak with authority on nuclear physics.

Just once, Bucky, answer the danged question.

Otherwise you're just a poser who wants people to think they're an expert.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by zugmann on Monday, August 28, 2017 12:18 PM

Euclid
I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement.

I was just curious in what capacity.  Only reason being your description and questions allude to your participation being in a non-hands on sort of way.

But honestly, I really don't need an answer.  Wasn't really expecitng one anyhow.

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 28, 2017 12:04 PM

Liars sware to the truth - it's what they do!

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, August 28, 2017 11:37 AM

RME
 
Euclid - Mon Aug 28 10:25 AM
I have never "claimed firsthand experience," as you say, about kicking cars uphill.

 

 
Euclid - Sat Aug 6 7:32pm
My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.

 

And you wonder why I am exasperated with this?

Tell you what -- you explain what your participation in kicking cars is, and I'll explain what I characterize as weird allegations.  In fact, I expect that some others here will explain what they characterize as weird allegations.

But you don't get to play the constant-objection disinformation game any more: you made a statement of competence, and I expect you to justify it and not pretend you didn't make it.

 

You refer to what I said as a “statement of competence” as though it were some type of legal claim that requires full proof that the claim is not fraudulent.  I think this reaction is a little silly. 

I am not pretending I did not make the statement, as you imply.

Yes I made the statement that I have participated in the practice of kicking cars; but only because I was asked this question by Jeff:

"You may be "familiar" with the practice.  Have you ever actually participated in the practice?  Just watching or reading about something isn't the same."

I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice.  That is a true statement. 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, August 28, 2017 10:36 AM

Euclid
 I have never "claimed firsthand experience," as you say, about kicking cars uphill. 

Maybe not up hill, but you have claimed firsthand experience kicking cars:

Euclid
My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.

Nice try with the deflection by qualifying the statement.

What  pretty much everyone on the forum is the basis of that familiarity.  We don't care about uphill, downhill, sideways, or anything else.  We want you to tell us about this:

Euclid
My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.

Nothing more, nothing less.  

If you are not willing to share that information, then it simply didn't happen, and your credibility takes yet another hit.

 

LarryWhistling
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RME
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Posted by RME on Monday, August 28, 2017 10:36 AM

Euclid - Mon Aug 28 10:25 AM
I have never "claimed firsthand experience," as you say, about kicking cars uphill.

Euclid - Sat Aug 6 7:32pm
My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.

And you wonder why I am exasperated with this?

Tell you what -- you explain what your participation in kicking cars is, and I'll explain what I characterize as weird allegations.  In fact, I expect that some others here will explain what they characterize as weird allegations.

But you don't get to play the constant-objection disinformation game any more: you made a statement of competence, and I expect you to justify it and not pretend you didn't make it.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, August 28, 2017 10:25 AM

RME
You have made weird allegations about how cars are kicked uphill, and attempted to justify these with a claim of firsthand experience doing so.

 

I have done no such thing.  The allegations about the current practice by CSX of kicking cars uphill, and difficulties of performing this move were made by the representatives of the SMART union.  I have never "claimed firsthand experience," as you say, about kicking cars uphill.  What “weird allegations” are you referring to?  Please explain what you characterize as “weird allegations.”

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, August 28, 2017 10:20 AM

Yes, Euclid, can you tell us just what your experience in kicking cars is? Or, are you ashamed of how you gained the experience?

I can say that I did various things concerning freight operations through the sufferance of railroad employees who knew me. In past posts I have given some of the details, for I am not ashamed of what I did. 

I am willing to take the statements of railroad employees who are familiar with whatever topic is under discussion as factual and not argue with them.

Just what are your credentials?

Johnny

RME
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Posted by RME on Monday, August 28, 2017 9:17 AM

This has nothing whatsoever to do with 'discrediting' any question, uncomfortable answer or otherwise.  You have made weird allegations about how cars are kicked uphill, and attempted to justify these with a claim of firsthand experience doing so.

We want to know what that experience is, in some detail, to understand better what the actual question is vs. what you say you know.  As I pointed out earlier, I'm in the forefront of defending random calls for 'credentials' when not relevant to the issue at hand.  Here, it's more than critical for you to provide them.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, August 28, 2017 9:06 AM

RME
 
Euclid
jeffhergert

My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.

 

OK, that does it.

I want confirmation -- when, where, how, and all the other relevant details -- about your participating in it. 

That's not a vague question about 'credentials'; it's a direct request for a claim you have made personally, asserting personal experience.

 

 

I am only asking a question about the meaning of the charge made by the union against CSX.  Instead of getting an answer, I get indignation for asking the question.  I am told I need real world experience to understand the answer.  I say I have real world experience, and I get more indignation.  I am told I am not believed.  I would think that you of all people would see through what is happening here.  But no.  You join right in and raise the level of indignation with a demand PROOF of experience.  It does not take a genius to see where this leads.  There is no end to the tactics for discrediting a question that has an uncomfortable answer.

 

RME
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Posted by RME on Monday, August 28, 2017 8:25 AM

Euclid
jeffhergert

My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.

OK, that does it.

I want confirmation -- when, where, how, and all the other relevant details -- about your participating in it. 

That's not a vague question about 'credentials'; it's a direct request for a claim you have made personally, asserting personal experience.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 28, 2017 8:04 AM
^ Euc - your lack of real world experience is showing!

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, August 28, 2017 7:59 AM

This explanation is from a letter sent by the union:

 

 

“These leads involve an uphill movement where the engineers must get the engines up to 7 or 8 throttle to move up the hill and by the time the cut is rolling and the slack is running out, the trainman pulling the pins is basically running around 6 or 7 miles per hour sometimes. It has been nearly impossible to pull the pins at a walking speed per the rules due to the terrain.”

 

 

Here is the part I don’t understand:

 

“…and by the time the cut is rolling and the slack is running out, the trainman pulling the pins is basically running around 6 or 7 miles per hour…”

 

 

Why does the trainman wait until the cut is rolling 6 or 7 mph before pulling the pin?

Normally, when the slack runs out, the kick is ending, and the pin has been pulled much earlier.  The slack is running out because the engine brakes have been applied to stop the cut and let the kicked cars go.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 28, 2017 7:51 AM

CShaveRR
I kicked cars in the really old days, pre RP-25 trucks, when they wouldn't roll worth anything.  Wink

However, I also pulled pins on hundreds of kicks, and know of those hills of which Zardoz speaks.  Pulled thousands of pins on those, too, before I went downhill.

(For the record, Larry, I've participated in a Dutch Drop from all three positions:  pulling the pin, throwing the switch, and tying 'em down...but not too quickly!)

Now, I have a question:  If the railroad is now allowing the getting on and off moving equipment after an absence of, say, ten or twelve years (I think that's about right), are they training all of the employees that didn't receive such training when they hired out?  I know that I spent a good half day doing nothing but during my training, and that I learned plenty, even though I had "participated" in such things for years beforehand.

Surprised that old EHH isn't out there training the trainers how to mount and dismount moving equipment - that would be leadership!  Of course the oxygen tank and hose might complicate things a bit.[/sarcasm]

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Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, August 28, 2017 7:36 AM

cx500

 

 
Euclid
 
jeffhergert
You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same.

 

My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it. 

 

 

 

Did your toe hurt afterwards?

 

Good one. Bucky's BS strikes again.

 

 

Good one. Bucky's BS strikes again.

Norm


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Posted by cx500 on Sunday, August 27, 2017 10:57 PM

Euclid
 
jeffhergert
You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same.

 

My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it. 

 

Did your toe hurt afterwards?

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, August 27, 2017 10:51 PM

I kicked cars in the really old days, pre RP-25 trucks, when they wouldn't roll worth anything.  Wink

However, I also pulled pins on hundreds of kicks, and know of those hills of which Zardoz speaks.  Pulled thousands of pins on those, too, before I went downhill.

(For the record, Larry, I've participated in a Dutch Drop from all three positions:  pulling the pin, throwing the switch, and tying 'em down...but not too quickly!)

Now, I have a question:  If the railroad is now allowing the getting on and off moving equipment after an absence of, say, ten or twelve years (I think that's about right), are they training all of the employees that didn't receive such training when they hired out?  I know that I spent a good half day doing nothing but during my training, and that I learned plenty, even though I had "participated" in such things for years beforehand.

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 27, 2017 10:05 PM

Euclid

 

 
jeffhergert
You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same.

 

My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it. 

 

Laugh O or HO scale?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, August 26, 2017 8:22 PM

Euclid
My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it. 

Yeah - I've watched it done, too.

For that matter, I've watched a "Dutch Drop..."

LarryWhistling
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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:46 PM

Euclid
My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.

Really...?

 

"Participate", how?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:32 PM

jeffhergert
You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same.

My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 26, 2017 6:35 PM

jeffhergert
You may be "familiar" with the practice.  Have you ever actually participated in the practice?  Just watching or reading about something isn't the same. 

I predict that in a few years (except on EHH properties, if he lives that long) kicking cars will be prohibited.  The only places a car will be alowed to be cut off and move under it's own momentum will be in hump yards.  (Except on EHH properties because they will all be gone, if he lives that long.)

Jeff

On the ground railroading is one of those things that when viewed from the 'outside' looks to be so easy even a caveman could do it with minimal instruction.

When you actually do it, it isn't anywhere near that easy.

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Saturday, August 26, 2017 6:11 PM

Kicking cars is prohibited on the P&W and other G&W properties now.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, August 26, 2017 5:53 PM

You may be "familiar" with the practice.  Have you ever actually participated in the practice?  Just watching or reading about something isn't the same. 

I predict that in a few years (except on EHH properties, if he lives that long) kicking cars will be prohibited.  The only places a car will be alowed to be cut off and move under it's own momentum will be in hump yards.  (Except on EHH properties because they will all be gone, if he lives that long.)

Jeff

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Posted by cx500 on Saturday, August 26, 2017 1:05 PM

We all will.

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, August 26, 2017 11:35 AM

I will. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, August 26, 2017 11:31 AM

zugmann
 
Euclid
Yes I am very familiar with kicking cars, 

 

I somehow doubt that.

 

Doubt it all you want.

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, August 26, 2017 11:28 AM

Euclid
Yes I am very familiar with kicking cars, 

I somehow doubt that.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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